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| View Poll Results: Should groups have IRC channels | |||
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43 | 63.24% |
| NO |
  
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25 | 36.76% |
| Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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Thread Tools |
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| View Poll Results: Should groups have IRC channels | |||
| YES |
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43 | 63.24% |
| NO |
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25 | 36.76% |
| Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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Thread Tools |
2004-01-08, 01:00
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Link #61 | |
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Fansubber Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 43
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 Back to the main idea ... nobody NEEDS an irc channel. to have a "successful" irc channel for a fansub group, you have to have good people though. A good mix of personalities, a good group of regulars that keep the room chatting, a healthy number of operators who aren't drunk with their powers and who also chat regularly, a good population of fileservers and distro bots, informative and clear topics and onjoin notices. Having a public irc channel isn't a solution to a problem, any more than a web forum is. It's just someplace to hang out and babble mindlessly about nothing for a while. It wouldn't have solved problems of a tracker dying any faster, since that problem resolving itself depends on people being around to begin with -- which doesn't always happen on irc. A good fansub-group irc channel is a precise mix that is hard to get right and easy to get very very wrong. |
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2004-01-08, 14:25
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Link #62 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Plus you are not suppose to base your assumption of usefulness of channels on how some people operates the channel. It is similar to basing a car's preformance on how well the driver behave. You cant simply say "ops sucks and the good one are hard to come by, therefore irc sucks and groups doesnt need irc".
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2004-01-12, 23:08
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Link #63 | |
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tsubasa o sagashite
Join Date: Jul 2003
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That car analogy isn't exactly correct. Consider it more like judging how easily a car can get its clutch destroyed based on how the clutch is designed in each car. Sure, it is possible to totally destroy the clutch regardless of design if you intended to do so, but a car with an easily negotiable clutch would be less likely to be destroyed than one that's harder to use. A channel will almost always have ops around, and there is always a temptation for corruption wherever power is concerned. |
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2004-01-13, 03:23
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Link #64 | ||
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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2004-01-13, 14:37
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Link #65 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gureibi wo aishite iru
Age: 36
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2004-01-14, 14:07
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Link #66 | |
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Fansubber Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 43
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channel operators are sposeda basically be moderators too. Operators watch what's going on, and cut short conversations that have degenerated into noise. I guess abuses DO happen in both. But ... I'd say its more likely to happen on irc because of the real-time nature of communication there. Basically though, fansub groups don't _need_ feedback. They might want it, but for the most part, it's an unnecessary frill. What they _need_ is a way to communicate with each other (inside the group). That's why groups use IRC: it's a good, real-time medium to talk with a group of people, and doesn't have a lot of requirements or overhead (need a connection, dialup is fine. need a client, there are at least 3 or 4 usable ones for any given platform. need very little else). But public channels are just places where people can go to get stuff, and there's been a lot of discussion recently about how effective xdcc/fserv type distro is compared to bittorrent. It's a generally accepted rule now that bittorrent is orders of magnitude faster at distributing stuff to reasonably large audiences than xdcc bots, fservs, ftp's, or other simple one-to-one transfer models. So yes, bt is fine for a standalone distro method. Every group has its own operating conditions, its own mode of operation, and its own presence. With the community as large as it is today, a group that's got an irc channel but no bt presence has nothing. A group that's got a bittorrent page but no irc channel is still visible. If a group has both, they're more diversified, but that's all, and it's not necessarily better.. |
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2004-01-14, 14:14
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Link #67 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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1. How could you improve your quality without feedback? (last time i check Aone doesnt have forum.) 2. 'Do fansub so that the rest of the world could enjoy Japanese anime'. Almost every group have a motto similar to that, but how could you define enjoyment? 3. Ask the rest of Animeone staff of how they feel if the channel only have a few people compare to 2700+ people they are having right now.
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2004-01-15, 17:49
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Link #68 | |
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done
 FansubberJoin Date: Nov 2003
Location: Yokosuka, JP
Age: 43
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2004-01-15, 23:12
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Link #69 | |
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Fansubber Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 43
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Quote:
1: getfresh answered the forum part. Basically we don't really _need_ external feedback is what I mean... we can't hold ourselves to any standards but our own. When one crew is working on something and produces a stupid grammar error and lets it get past all of the editing and qc in that team, someone else in the team will see it and complain. We hold each other accountable and give each other feedback, but the last thing we need is someone in japanese 102 telling us that he thinks that we translated basic vocab incorrectly because he only recognizes a syllable instead of the word that contains it (has happened more times than I want to count), or someone telling us every time someone misses a stupid grammar error or misspelling (also happens more times than you'd believe). We know our weaknesses, and our strengths, and are painfully aware of our failures without you telling us. 2: We fansub for ourselves. We share because we're nice. That's my view, anyway. We're not publishers, we're not professionals, we're not doing a public service. We're fansubbers because we like anime and enjoy subbing it. I think any fansubber that doesn't enjoy both watching it and the process of subbing it should probably think about finding a hobby that they don't end up hating. If you need to see the tracker tick up to 10,000 downloads to be happy with yourself, you probably fall into that category. 3: Our motivation isn't to have the biggest channel in anime irc history, that's a side effect of us trying to meet our own standards (though honestly we never quite do, since there's always something that could be better), and doing what we want. Well, that and picking up and being relatively consistent on the most avidly downloaded anime series ever to exist, and several other abandoned series a while back, and our decision to sub stuff that other people don't too (like things that are licensed, and things that are unique or old or that we feel are neglected). The people in the channel are just there, it doesn't mean we're better than anyone else. A lot of the older members in our group reminisce about the days when we had 300 people in the channel, and we were young and innocent and life was good, and honestly I'd like to see our population drop back into the 1200 range, just because I remember that being in the main channel was a more fun experience back then than it is now. But that's probably less related to the number of people and more related to who those people are and were. Moving on ... In the context of this discussion, a fansub group can _choose_ to accept feedback, or they can decline it. When someone says "I don't like x about your group" it's not useful. When someone says "I don't like x about your group because of y" it is more useful. Unfortunately most people don't know the difference between nonconstructive and constructive criticism, and so only engage in the former, and personally, I'd rather not have 300 people point out to me when I miss, particularly if their feedback amounts to "your editing sucks". By the time those people have noticed it, I've already heard about it, and so has whoever's responsible for it (if it's someone other than me). Generally, I'd say in the case of a group like "We Suck" there's only 2 responses they'll get -- either "no you don't, I love you guys" or "you guys sure live up to your name." Is that really necessary to hear over and over again, is the question. I think I'd choose not to, in their shoes... |
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2004-01-16, 12:14
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Link #71 | |
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Fansubber Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 43
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I dunno about other groups 'cause I'm not really paying attention, but from what I've seen a lot of people on irc are still active for the whole "socializing with people with similar interests" thing ... you just have to have the right recipe to give them an environment that they like to talk in.... |
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2004-01-18, 08:37
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Link #72 | |
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AnimeONE Typesetter
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Ohh lol, i cant really say its quiet in the chans im in :O Specialy Animeone always people that talks about something, not necesarily anime though. ^_^ Take Care Sakaki |
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2004-01-18, 09:48
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Link #73 |
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NO ESCAPE FROM NYAAA
Artist
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I love IRC. For some reason at my home, bittorrent downloads really really slowly, like only 20 kb/sec or so, even with over a 100 listed seeds.
IRC gets like 120 kb/sec plus. Anyway, the good thing about bittorrent is that it's simple. The bad thing is if you're trying to download relatively unpopular stuff and there's no peers. Another really good thing with IRC is that you can watch the episode as it downloads. 
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2004-01-18, 18:46
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Link #75 | |
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Fansubber Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 43
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Quote:
that combined with the fact that it's as far as I know pretty much entirely gui-based .... a lot of the more important distro servers wouldn't be able to use it at all. I wouldn't be opposed to fansub groups having dc hubs, or to a large dc hub set up for several fansub groups .... but dc isn't as mature a platform and doesn't have the same management tools (scripting languages and api's, mainly) that irc does, making it less community-oriented and more download-oriented. Diversification is good and all .... but dc and irc aren't mutually exclusive, just like irc and forums aren't. |
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2004-01-19, 21:13
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Link #76 | |
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Anti-You
Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 36
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2004-01-19, 23:58
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Link #77 | |
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Fansubber Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 43
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Quote:
lots of hubs from a leecher standpoint... if every group has their own hub, the leechers have to go to as many hubs as they would irc channels. bittorrent defeats this problem, but then bittorrent means you don't have to go to the group's channel either, or really do anything that the group knows about other than hit the torrent. management tools including things like a way to announce releases statically (could use a webpage, but I don't think dc has channels or topics the way irc has those means of distributing information in persistent prominent locations built into it). yes, I know dc isn't about "fservs" and "xdcc" per se.... it is about filesharing with peers. This is NOT the issue I was addressing. There are computers which are not capable of running guis or not capable of running them persistently, but are still capable of distributing files or running persistent daemon processes. Those computers make great xdcc servers, decent bittorrent seeds, good tcl fileservers, but ..... can't run a gui so can't run any directconnect client I've ever heard of. There's not a whole lot of daemon process directconnect clients around from what I've seen, though again I haven't had a whole lot of experience looking for it. I could be wrong. Excluding the top tier or two of fast connections is a BAD thing, as a rule. IRC offers a lot more information distribution features (topics, chanserv messages, persistent channel messages, onjoins, etc), and a greater level of openness for all users, where dc hubs tend to have barriers to entry such as minimum shared amounts and minimum serving slots. Not everyone can always serve files, those who can't tend to be excluded from directconnect. your argument about scripts makes little sense. "you can do a lot if you're good, even locking chat with a password" versus irc which has that feature built in and gives you a massive and extremely fine-grained control over your channel, scripting adds to this by letting you script client behaviors to do channel control, and you have your choice of at least 3 solid and well-documented languages and api's to do that in (mirc uses its own scripting language, you can do perl scripting in a couple of clients, and you can use tcl on eggdrops). I don't know if directconnect clients offer that sort of support for whatever language you want, but I doubt it. Particularly since the advent of bittorrent, the distro functions of irc channels have taken a backseat to the socialization functions. Or were always in that backseat and are just moreso now. With that in mind, there's no good reason to replace irc with dc. DirectConnect has its place, but I don't think that that place is the same as irc's. |
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2004-01-20, 13:09
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Link #78 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I like groups who have IRC channels because my uni heavily restricts the BT ports but leaves IRC alone. I think its best if fansub groups have the widest possible selection of distro methods avaliable for everyone's different situations.
Another good point for IRC is its easier to get older stuff since people can just share their entire fansub folder, unlike BT where you can try downloading with 0 seeds and 0 peers.. I'd rather sit in queue then beg on boards and hope someone is generous enough to seed |
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2004-01-20, 13:20
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Link #79 |
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C1Anime
Join Date: Jan 2004
Age: 38
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BT or Mirc
I like things how they are, both bt and mirc. I am in 3 fansub groups right now and mirc is essential. It's fun to have a place to chat and keep you occupied while downloading. I chat in all of my channels, member channels, and distro chans. I as a op in a few places wouldnt ban someone for criticizing my work, rather if they said it politly then i'd take it as consideration and try to make my work better for people. I think it's stupid to be afraid to say what you think, it's just that people should be polite about it. It's not nice to go into anywhere and tell people they suck in a bad way. Bt is very nice... I like getting my stuff with it and bt makes distro faster than it is with dcc. It has good things associated with it but I dont like the idea of no mirc, I prefer to have both. Forums are nice as well, but real time chats are great. I wouldnt give up irc for the world, though bt is nice, it isnt a replacement for mirc for me, rather just a tool for download. Mirc is a place to chat and download which is what i like most. Xdcc bots are just as fast as bt for me, so it doesnt matter, anime is anime. But I wouldnt ever want to give up the anime chatting community. It's best to have some place to talk, forums are nice but it's good to have chatrooms and forums. That's just my thought on this subject. Both are best, not one better than the other exactly.
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