3 years already and still shedding a tear

[tritoch]

Why would you guys insist on Flay x Kira?

The whole relationship had a huge signboard that reads: Out of Convienience

And yes, DemonGod, has a point. Flay used Kira with the whole "you didnt protect my dad, you go to hell" thing. After that, Kira went downhill with his mental instability (a.k.a. i am confuzors). Until ofcourse, ep 28 when kira said, its a mistake [to their relationship]. Eventhough they would talk it over, Kira dropped the bomb already. Flay ofcourse, fell into insecurities without Kira, and Kira well, he grew out of their relationship. Typical teen angst here. To kira, Lacus felt like a warm breeze in the winter cold, its both calming and refreshing. Also, regarding the later episodes of Seed, Kira chose what he wanted to do. Lacus wasn't even there yet (and her father was still alive). Sorry folks, no mind warping lacus here. Everyone agreed on what to do with the 3 ship alliance, it wasn't Lacus's idea, everyone felt that it was the way to go. (again no miss perfect lacus calling the shots)

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by tritoch

And yes, DemonGod, has a point. Flay used Kira with the whole "you didnt protect my dad, you go to hell" thing.

Which we have already pointed out went for half through before the two realized the error.

Yes Demongod, then they were going to TALK IT OVER but Kira had to go fight Athrun so he said he'd talk to her when he got back. Paying attention to the details that are only beneficial to yourself is understandable but still stupid.

Not every relationship is perfect.

After that, Kira went downhill with his mental instability (a.k.a. i am confuzors).

No he didn't, he was already going downhill the moment he sat in Strike. I'll say it again, how would you feel if you've been forced into fighting against your "own people," even worse, your best friend in round 9 of a fight on the losing side with so much to lose? If anything, she gave him the strength he needed to fight on.

[SNT1]

Hell, Fllay committed a few sins in the desert arc as well, EG turning Kira into a raging berserker and mind (and body) raping him

wow, Fllay (physically) raped Kira? then Kira is just more of a wuss than I imagined XD

Murrue: Why are you crying?
Kira: Last night, *sob*, Fllay WAS the man! *sob* I didn't cry.

[tritoch]

Flay WAS the man...

L O L

[Varis]

wow, so many Fllay lovers here =)

Sure she is very human (she IS after all human and not a coordinator) and her actions can be explained and even understood.

That does not excuse them however. She did use Kira for her own little crusade of destruction. That's a selfish bitch to me... I don't care about all the "but she had all those traumatic experiences, she is just confused, she realized her errors!, etc etc"

I don't think Fllay deserved to die, but I'm not sorry to see her gone.


Also, speaking of hard times, Fllay is by no means alone. Kira, Athrun, Murrue, Lacus, Andy and Cagalli all lost people close to them. I just don't see how she deserves a special "boohoo"

Even if Fllay and Kira would have worked out, Lacus and Kira seem to connect on many levels. He seems at peace finally and happy.

[D a m i e n]

well it has ended with a debate between the relation between kira/Fllay Kira/Lacus. So if we are to talk about this i really think the Kira/Lacus relation was forced by the scryptwritter, first the plot hole to have kira end up in lacus's mansion in the space colony then the here is a gundam fight for your ideal ... "wait why am i giving a gundam to a guy i met just a few days ago especially a top notch secret overpowered one... blah i guess the scryptwritters are all migthy and everyone will take that..." that is what i m reproching to that relation. Unlike the Fllay/kira relation that was set in a much better way.

It s my personnal opinion but i really think Kira / Fllay were deeply in love until the very end, after the Lacus/Kira arch kira didnt kill anyone neither did he want to kill anyone anymore. But Rau is the only want Kira really want to kill with a passion. you can say it s from the "brainwash" he received from Fllay but Lacus sure did a great job in switching his mind to the no kill policy. Kira's reaction to Fllay's death is more i ll get revenge for you taking a precious person from me than a i failed to keep my promise to protect her.

I wont go on the Lacus brainwashing kira to be her tool wich can be an acceptable argument, but well when she is chassed as a traitor to the nation she still stay in order to meet athrun and switch his mind to join her faction. In a way she is far more dangerous than Fllay if her power are apply to ruling a country she isnt a brainwashing type, more a manipulator type. If we take in account her manipulation abilty you can rephrase the : "wait why am i giving a gundam to a guy i met just a few days ago especially a top notch secret overpowered one... ho yeah he is a childhood friend of Athrun, son of field marchal of zaft, if he can talk Athrun in join me i have gamewin /evil grin now all i have left to do is to managed to get Athrun and kira to meet and talk..."

Blah all that talk about Lacus being a manipulator is far fetched but can be a nice subject to debate on

[Anh_Minh]

IMO, Kira and Flay weren't "deeply in love". They barely knew each other. Heck, they were kids, they barely knew themselves. It was just an adolescent love. If Flay had lived, it could have grown into something more serious, but then again, they could just as easily have parted ways.

Before GS, I think their relationship was, for Flay, "Kira is one of Sai's friends", and for Kira "whoa, Fllay's the prettiest girl in the school". Only a couple of steps up from "perfect strangers", really.

Then Flay manipulated Kira into being her weapon and Kira used her to sooth his own troubled soul. They spent time together, grew to care for each other, maybe even started knowing each other (I'm not persuaded Kira ever knew Flay at all...), but it wasn't ever the pure, intense love some people make it out to be.

And Lacus didn't brainwash Kira into following a no kill policy. For one thing, he never had any such policy. For another, what she did was, help him resolve his inner conflict between his lofty ideals of peace, and his immediate need to protect his friends. She did the same for Athrun. It's converging ideals that brought them together. Not love. Not jedi mind tricks. Maybe some rhetoric, I'll grant. She convinced them to stop compromising their ideals for the short term view of who the enemies are.

As for the Kira x Lacus relationship... in a way, it's not much better than Kira x Flay. There's some chemistry, but very little passion. In GS Kira and Athrun were more obsessed with each other than they ever were with Lacus. Not that I'm supporting a Kira x Athrun relationship, but still...

And the same thing I said about Kira x Flay can be applied to Kira x Lacus. They're just kids. It can grow into more, and they've matured some in GSD (both personally and in their relationship), but that's all.

[tritoch]

Would you actually imagine ZAFT using the Freedom and Justice? They'd pawn just about anyone. Lacus gave away those to someone who would use its power for good rather than bad... or etc etc..

Just wanted to point out too: Both Lacus and Flay lost their father in GSeed. Both went to Kira for comfort but Lacus didn't persuade nor made Kira promise anything.

[SNT1]

Would you actually imagine ZAFT using the Freedom and Justice? They'd pawn just about anyone. Lacus gave away those to someone who would use its power for good rather than bad... or etc etc..

I am thinking since Rau uses Providence, Nicol is deadd, Dearkka is POW, Yzak might actualy get the Freedom lolololol.

Strike vs. Freedom and Justice. alllll riiiiight.

[Anh_Minh]

They supposedly had other pilots, you know... After all, Yzak wasn' t recalled to become a member of the Special Forces Directly Under The Council or whatever Athrun was.

Heh. Maybe Heine would have gotten it.

[dom33]

@demongod the kiraxlacus pairing developed? excuse me,(goes off to laugh then comes back) as for fllay going off to orb, i and definetly sniper-chan would have loved that they would probably get married have a boy and a girl, (imagines a scene involving kira,fllay, their kids and swings) oh sorry anyway you say it isn't all right for fllay to go to orb yet it's perfectly alright for lacus to go to orb?

fllay is not katejina , katejina was twisted and sick if i meet her i would run as fast as i can, if i meet fllay i would say "hello can you save me for being alone tonight?"

where's sniper-chan you'd think she'd be here.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by tritoch

Would you actually imagine ZAFT using the Freedom and Justice? They'd pawn just about anyone. Lacus gave away those to someone who would use its power for good rather than bad... or etc etc..

I imagine Yzak ending up as being the BETTER pilot of the Freedom than Kira...LOL! Besides, I'm more pro Kira and Strike...they are the best combination in the entire SEED universe, EVER! Um, MS wise that is. That could also be said for Athrun and Aegis. A Strike VS Freedom and Justice would make much more sense into HOW Kira became a GOD in Destiny...

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Before GS, I think their relationship was, for Flay, "Kira is one of Sai's friends", and for Kira "whoa, Fllay's the prettiest girl in the school". Only a couple of steps up from "perfect strangers", really.

I don't agree that Kira and Fllay were total strangers. True, Fllay was a year younger than Kira, Ssigh, Miriallia, and Tolle, and Kuzzey, but they were all friends. And Miriallia, Tolle, and Kuzzey seem to know that Kira had a crush on Fllay. Fllay must have met him a couple of times in the technical college because he was Ssigh's friend, so it could be assumed that Fllay already knew him that much already before the attack on Heliopolis. And during the harried Archangel enlisting, Miriallia, Tolle, Kuzzey, Ssigh, and Kira knew a lot enough about Fllay to actually be shocked into knowing that she joined the crew. How could you even say that they're still strangers?

And yes, DemonGod, has a point. Flay used Kira with the whole "you didnt protect my dad, you go to hell" thing.

Fllay lost her father, the only one she has, the only person on which her entire world revolved around. She got angry at Kira for failing to deliver on his promise that he will protect her father. Imagine being a spoiled rich kid suddenly losing the only person that has ever anchored her to reality. Granted that Fllay never knew anything apart from the closed and sheltered little world she lived in, it was very devastating for her. And it hurt much worse because she actually saw it happen in front of her eyes. She snapped, which was a realistic enough reaction, WAY OFF than the GODDESS' own. She conveniently manipulated Kira into a killing machine to kill the other Coordinators, and yes, she DID say that she won't forgive Kira until he dies in the process. But that was only from the Desert Arc to the day they arrived in Orb. Other than that, she stopped being so hateful and manipulative anymore. She hated Ssigh for trying to take out the Strike, because she knew full well that he wasn't Kira (and it was foolish; she didn't need Ssigh to die so foolishly like that). She was a bit surprised when Kira violently protected her from, Ssigh, and got worried when Kira got so haunted by his desire to protect Fllay so much that he slept in the Strike's cockpit. So, aside from her bitchy meanness to Kira during that time, she might be starting to have second thoughts about Kira's manipulation.

Which brings us to the ep 28 thing. Kira was going on something like "what we're doing is wrong, we should forget about each other". At least that's how our translators dubbed it over here. :P anyway, Fllay got upset and got angry at him because she thought Kira was just pitying her that was why he was left at the Archangel, then she runs off. But then, the ZAFT people came back for revenge on Nicol's death. Fllay actually looked like she was worried for Kira during that scene. She wanted to say something to Kira. But Kira just went off. afterwards, Fllay got all depressed when Kira went MIA, she even tried killing Dearka with a gun (where the heck did she get that gun again? >.< ) because he was a Coordinator but he was one of the persons who "killed off" Kira...then she starts remembering the times when Kira was so good to her, so nice, and she was so sad that even Torii/Birdy had to cheer her up...

Anyway, enough rambling. The Kira MIA arc was the time when Fllay realized how much she already loved Kira, but was still denying it. Heck, even Ssigh told her that she was in love with Kira, and Fllay got all upset. She refused to believe that she was already in love with him. But yes, it was already there.

When Kira returned with the Freedom, he acted dispassionately about Fllay's disappearance. Then when he heard her voice, and Fllay heard his voice, they got pretty crazy. Well, in Kira's case anyway. Fllay was very happy that he was alive. She got a firsthand view about the Coordinators she hated so much when Rau kidnapped her aboard the Vesalius and she met Yzak (to which the YzaK Fllay pairing is as popular as the still diehard Kira Fllay pairing in Japan) and the other Coordinators for that matter. So, her mind changed drastically about her views on Coordinators, and she wasn't that narrow minded anymore. Then, during her stint on the Dominion, she finally understood what war was all about and admitted to Natarle that she wanted to see Kira again because she has something very important to say to him. Kira, on the other hand, had to be dragged away by Athrun when Kira started to go after Fllay's shuttle pod, and started having hallucinations on board the Eternal. And he was crying to Lacus that he didn't want to hurt Fllay.

When the Freedom reached the escape pod from the Dominion, it was very evident that they were genuinely very happy to see each other, and whatever unspoken love was very much there. But Rau had the sick mind to torture Kira some more. And so Fllay died in front of Kira, not able to say what she wanted to say to him. Kira was still haunted by her death, even through the first eps of Destiny, until she was magically erased.

How could some of those who don't see how their supposed "artificial/superficial love" be actual REAL love?

It was a love that actually grew, not just because it was "out of convenience". The next pair I could think of next to the maturity of their relationship (other than it was just SO forced for me.... ) is Athrun and Cagalli's. If any, Kira and Lacus are only the pair I see in the entire CE universe as "out of convenience" because Kira's true love had to die.

Just wanted to point out too: Both Lacus and Flay lost their father in GSeed. Both went to Kira for comfort but Lacus didn't persuade nor made Kira promise anything.

Lacus acted like it's no big deal to lose a father. Granted that she had to be strong for her faction...that one shot only deal of how her father's death "totally strengthened her resolve to end the war" just totally blew me away.

And yes she DID make Kira promise something. "COME BACK TO ME, KIRA!"

The only thing I see developed very much for the Kira Lacus pairing is that Freedom got 12363489054070974874432 times PLOT HOLE DEVICE stronger whenever Lacus is around. And, um...gotta love those one liners... Please take note that plot hole device/plot invulnerability is WAY <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< than Kira Strike Desert Arc and that he had to protect Fllay for SEED enhancements WAY off the Lacus dust meter.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

I don't agree that Kira and Fllay were total strangers. True, Fllay was a year younger than Kira, Ssigh, Miriallia, and Tolle, and Kuzzey, but they were all friends. And Miriallia, Tolle, and Kuzzey seem to know that Kira had a crush on Fllay. Fllay must have met him a couple of times in the technical college because he was Ssigh's friend, so it could be assumed that Fllay already knew him that much already before the attack on Heliopolis. And during the harried Archangel enlisting, Miriallia, Tolle, Kuzzey, Ssigh, and Kira knew a lot enough about Fllay to actually be shocked into knowing that she joined the crew. How could you even say that they're still strangers?

When Kira caught that Escape Pod and she was in, she said "You're one of Sai's friends, aren't you?". Not "You're Kira, aren't you?", let alone "Kira! What are you doing here?"

So, while they might have been introduced, they hadn't talked much, and she'd probably forgotten his name.

And why wouldn't they be shocked Flay joined? They knew why they joined, and Flay had no such reason. Especially after spend all the voyage from Heliopolis as one of the "useless civilians". Now that it was time to leave... They'd had been surprised at anyone wanting to say, they didn't need to be close. And Flay was especially surprising. Remember her bitching about showers? If they learnt to know her during the trip, it was that she was a spoiled brat unfit for the military hardships.

Which brings us to the ep 28 thing. Kira was going on something like "what we're doing is wrong, we should forget about each other". At least that's how our translators dubbed it over here. :P anyway, Fllay got upset and got angry at him because she thought Kira was just pitying her that was why he was left at the Archangel, then she runs off. But then, the ZAFT people came back for revenge on Nicol's death. Fllay actually looked like she was worried for Kira during that scene. She wanted to say something to Kira. But Kira just went off. afterwards, Fllay got all depressed when Kira went MIA, she even tried killing Dearka with a gun (where the heck did she get that gun again? >.< ) because he was a Coordinator but he was one of the persons who "killed off" Kira...then she starts remembering the times when Kira was so good to her, so nice, and she was so sad that even Torii/Birdy had to cheer her up...

Anyway, enough rambling. The Kira MIA arc was the time when Fllay realized how much she already loved Kira, but was still denying it. Heck, even Ssigh told her that she was in love with Kira, and Fllay got all upset. She refused to believe that she was already in love with him. But yes, it was already there.

So she cared a bit about Kira. And felt guilty about what happened to him. That's still a far shot from "Real Love".

When Kira returned with the Freedom, he acted dispassionately about Fllay's disappearance. Then when he heard her voice, and Fllay heard his voice, they got pretty crazy. Well, in Kira's case anyway. Fllay was very happy that he was alive. She got a firsthand view about the Coordinators she hated so much when Rau kidnapped her aboard the Vesalius and she met Yzak (to which the YzaK Fllay pairing is as popular as the still diehard Kira Fllay pairing in Japan) and the other Coordinators for that matter. So, her mind changed drastically about her views on Coordinators, and she wasn't that narrow minded anymore. Then, during her stint on the Dominion, she finally understood what war was all about and admitted to Natarle that she wanted to see Kira again because she has something very important to say to him. Kira, on the other hand, had to be dragged away by Athrun when Kira started to go after Fllay's shuttle pod, and started having hallucinations on board the Eternal. And he was crying to Lacus that he didn't want to hurt Fllay.

Yeah, no one's denying he cared about Fllay. One question is, did he ever know her?

When the Freedom reached the escape pod from the Dominion, it was very evident that they were genuinely very happy to see each other, and whatever unspoken love was very much there. But Rau had the sick mind to torture Kira some more. And so Fllay died in front of Kira, not able to say what she wanted to say to him. Kira was still haunted by her death, even through the first eps of Destiny, until she was magically erased.

Two years had passed. They'd been together what, weeks? He got over it, that's all.

How could some of those who don't see how their supposed "artificial/superficial love" be actual REAL love?

There's scant evidence of anything but adolescent lust, normal human caring, and guilt.

It was a love that actually grew, not just because it was "out of convenience". The next pair I could think of next to the maturity of their relationship (other than it was just SO forced for me.... ) is Athrun and Cagalli's. If any, Kira and Lacus are only the pair I see in the entire CE universe as "out of convenience" because Kira's true love had to die.



Lacus acted like it's no big deal to lose a father. Granted that she had to be strong for her faction...that one shot only deal of how her father's death "totally strengthened her resolve to end the war" just totally blew me away.

Yeah, well, excuse her for not going psycho at the drop of a hat. Not everyone has to go "boohoohoo pity me I've lost my dad". Besides, she had a job to do to sustain her. Flay was at loose end. Lacus saw it coming. Flay was surprised. That explains part of the difference.

And yes she DID make Kira promise something. "COME BACK TO ME, KIRA!"

"Kira, don't die" doesn't sound as nefarious to me as "Kill everyone and die yourself", but maybe that's just me.

[Eidolon Sniper]

She could've just EASILY brushed him aside. It's as SIMPLE as that.

How could they have not been that SHOCKED? You must've forgotten that episode: Fllay was one of the reasons why the rest of them joined the Archangel in the first place. And as you said that she was a spoiled brat, they knew her enough to surmise that she was indeed a spoiled brat who's not fit for military hardships. They didn't expect her to do something like that. That was why they acted so surprised.

You can't just summarize a couple of instances to make Fllay out into such a total bitch all throughout the series. What I tried to point out was the development of her hatred or whatever it was into something that was love. She really changed throughout the series. She didn't expect to fall in love with Kira, but she did. What I liked about her development was that she actually went through it all: her madness into torturing Kira into killing himself into killing other Coordinators, then as she knew more about him every single time they were together, it slowly developed into something that was infatuation, then eventually love. Not just that. She also progressed from being a psycho bitch into somebody who really understood war at the end while going through all the things that she experienced: being a part of the Archangel crew, then having herself in a ship filled with those Coordinators she hated so much. So you can't really say that she was such a sorry excuse for a human being because she acted bitchy at one point; she actually grew out of it. And because some people only see her as such, then they can't see beyond what she REALLY was about in SEED.

Kira not knowing Fllay? That could also be said for Lacus, even MORE than Kira and Fllay. They (Kira Lacus) only got together in a couple of eps, whereas Fllay and Kira were together from ep 1 to 28, almost during that Kira crazy ep, and at the end, which probably saved the entire universe. Saying that they're not that enough together (Kira and Fllay) for them to develop a very believable relationship (even if it was fraught with mistakes and all those other things besides) would be .

As for getting over someone, it's not that easy. Heck, some people don't even get over those kinds of situations for years and years on end. You just saw somebody you love so much die in front of you, and you had the power to protect her, but you weren't able to. It's not like you break up with your girlfriend then you get somebody new the next hour.

Come on. How could someone be so "strenghtened" like that at a drop of a hat? And it's Lacus we're talking about, so she probably "knew" already that it was going to happen eventually. Hm, now that I think about it there was no reason why George Allster's ship had to blow up. It was just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. and yes, this is war. George Allster's ship wasn't doing anything dangerous, isn't it? He just wanted to see his daughter. It just totally sucks that it was an EA ship and they were in the middle of a battlefield filled with ZAFT commandos.

Really? Well, coming from Lacus Clyne, that is SO out of character. And as you've probably noticed, I was just kidding.

[kikko_s]

I'm glad she died. I know what it's like to be dumped for someone else who I thought was my friend but was in fact ****ing her behind my back. Kudos to Rau for at least one well-deserved homicide.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

She could've just EASILY brushed him aside. It's as SIMPLE as that.

What are you answering to? What do you mean?

How could they have not been that SHOCKED? You must've forgotten that episode: Fllay was one of the reasons why the rest of them joined the Archangel in the first place. And as you said that she was a spoiled brat, they knew her enough to surmise that she was indeed a spoiled brat who's not fit for military hardships. They didn't expect her to do something like that. That was why they acted so surprised.

Your point was, if you'll remember, they were surprised because they knew her very well, even before GS. That Kira, in particular, knew her before GS. I answered that what they saw of her during the trip was enough to make them surpirsed, even if they'd never exchanged a word before.

You were saying that Kira x Flay was something born of a long, friendly association predating GS. I disagreed with you.

You can't just summarize a couple of instances to make Fllay out into such a total bitch all throughout the series.

I'm not. But she was no saint either, even at the end of the series.

What I tried to point out was the development of her hatred or whatever it was into something that was love.

I think you are exagerating her feelings. And failing to take into account the rest of what she felt. Like guilt.

She really changed throughout the series. She didn't expect to fall in love with Kira, but she did. What I liked about her development was that she actually went through it all: her madness into torturing Kira into killing himself into killing other Coordinators, then as she knew more about him every single time they were together, it slowly developed into something that was infatuation, then eventually love. Not just that. She also progressed from being a psycho bitch into somebody who really understood war at the end while going through all the things that she experienced: being a part of the Archangel crew, then having herself in a ship filled with those Coordinators she hated so much.

Really understood war? When did that happen? She was naive before GS started, she was still naive when she left AA, still naive when she was recovered by Dominion... Heck, she was probably still naive when she tried to join AA, she just had run out of things to be deluded about.

So you can't really say that she was such a sorry excuse for a human being because she acted bitchy at one point; she actually grew out of it. And because some people only see her as such, then they can't see beyond what she REALLY was about in SEED.

She only became useful after she died. Good job. Besides her afterdeath scene with Kira, she was pretty much a waste of air.

Kira not knowing Fllay? That could also be said for Lacus, even MORE than Kira and Fllay.

Very possibly. Neither girl was entirely honest with him. Still, in GSD, he'd been with her for two years. And had seen what she'd wrought in the TSA. All he saw of Flay was her manipulative act, and did he ever see through it?

They (Kira Lacus) only got together in a couple of eps, whereas Fllay and Kira were together from ep 1 to 28, almost during that Kira crazy ep, and at the end, which probably saved the entire universe. Saying that they're not that enough together (Kira and Fllay) for them to develop a very believable relationship (even if it was fraught with mistakes and all those other things besides) would be .

I never tried to claim Kira knew Lacus. Just that he didn't know Flay enough to be able to say he loved her.

As for getting over someone, it's not that easy. Heck, some people don't even get over those kinds of situations for years and years on end. You just saw somebody you love so much die in front of you, and you had the power to protect her, but you weren't able to. It's not like you break up with your girlfriend then you get somebody new the next hour.

"Love so much"? We're not talking about someone he'd known and loved and lived with for years. We're talking about a girl he was with for a few weeks.

Come on. How could someone be so "strenghtened" like that at a drop of a hat? And it's Lacus we're talking about, so she probably "knew" already that it was going to happen eventually. Hm, now that I think about it there was no reason why George Allster's ship had to blow up. It was just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. and yes, this is war. George Allster's ship wasn't doing anything dangerous, isn't it? He just wanted to see his daughter. It just totally sucks that it was an EA ship and they were in the middle of a battlefield filled with ZAFT commandos.

Her father's presence was a surprise to Flay. And even if she knew he was in danger, she was still too daft to think he might die.

As for Lacus: she must have known they couldn't get away with the Freedom theft. And they'd know where the wind was blowing for a while, which is why they'd prepared. They'd been ready to go underground before Kira appeared. Her father stayed behind to get martyred, and she pretty much knew it was in the cards.

Really? Well, coming from Lacus Clyne, that is SO out of character. And as you've probably noticed, I was just kidding.

I'm not even sure what you mean.

[Schneizel]

She only became useful after she died. Good job. Besides her afterdeath scene with Kira, she was pretty much a waste of air.

She wouldn't've had that afterdeath scene if it wasn't for every scene she had before that.

[Last_Hope]

Flay is the single most underestimated character in the CE universe.

[Demongod86]

Yes, Kira and Fllay were together. But with Kira being so mentally out of it, I'd think that being together with Lacus for perhaps several days, maybe a week, with time passing at a snail's pace with little to do besides the occasional news and just looking at the swans swimming around in the lake with the breeze blowing the grass...I'd think that whatever time Kira spent with Lacus in those several days was more than enough to get to know her as well as he knew Fllay (sex aside) when you're taking into account all the fighting, tension, drama, etc... and Kira's mental state.

As for Kira fighting much better when Lacus is around, do you people even bother looking at what comes out of Freedom's wings when she's around? Lacus dust. The Freedom's cockpit is inundated with that stuff when Lacus is around, and it makes Kira a much better fighter. That's half joke, half seriousness. When Lacus is around, Freedom has a ton of Lacus dust. In Kira's fight against Shinn, there was NO Lacus dust, hence he lost.

As fro the Freedom theft, Lacus knew what she was doing. It was Kira that befriended her on AA and tried to protect everyone and suffered the most, so he got the Freedom so he could go and pwn up the baddies. And pwn them up he did. And Yzak probably WOULD have become Freedom's pilot. He WAS the second best in the entire ZAFT, next to Athrun.

And for the record, Kira isn't Lacus's mindless pawn. He can think for himself quite a significant amount, although it's less than Lacus's abilities by a significant amount, since he has his fighting skills to make up for it.

As for Fllay, people are touting how she changed. That's like having a murderer reform after he slaughtered five children. By that point, it doesn't matter. Face it, people, THE DAMAGE WAS DONE. If Kira wasn't as much of a sweet guy as he was, he would have simply moved on with Lacus in a heartbeat. Measurements aside, whatever Fllay can provide, Lacus can do better. She is sweeter, smarter, more caring, the whole nine. Lacus is an angel, and an incarnation of what the perfect human being is. And yet, still has human qualities.

Fllay is completely off the wall. If you want to say that Lacus is miss perfect angel, then Fllay is nothing short of a demoness, be it a devilless or a succubus. She is a complete opposite to Lacus in her time with Kira. Selfish, un-understanding, stupid, angry, weak, manipulative, blind, hurtful...it was out of the goodness of his own heart and conscience that Kira put up with Fllay. Any other guy would have said "WTF did you expect me to do out there in a 4v1 with my best friend there? You honestly expected me to kill my best friend? GTFO."

You people are giving Fllay far too much credit. The only reason she was able to get as far as she did is that Kira let her. Anyone more down to earth than sweet little Kira would have just dumped that shit, assets or no. Nobody deserves to put up with a Fllay.

I really can care less how Fllay changed. All of the damage she (and perhaps inadvertently Athrun) did, it was up to Lacus to repair. Up to the final fight with Rau, it was Lacus that should be solely accredited for Kira's survival, and past about the same point in Destiny as well...it was Lacus that kept everyone (well, except Mia ) alive with her intuition and supergundams.

If you reallly want to compare who was better for Kira in the long run, the answer is undoubtedly Lacus, unless you see Fllay producing supergundams and beating out dictators in mental chess games.

As for convenience, I can understand Kira x Lacus a LOT better than Kira x Fllay. After Kira made the decision to dump Fllay and GTFO of that destructive relationship, I can definitely understand why he'd take solace in Lacus's embraces. I wouldn't be able to understand if he'd turn her down. Their personalities are a match made in heaven. He--and she--are both sweet, quiet, genuinely good people. As for Fllay, she took advantage of Kira the whole nine yards and wouldn't have lasted with any less decent individual.

[Schneizel]

And for the record, Kira isn't Lacus's mindless pawn. He can think for himself quite a significant amount, although it's less than Lacus's abilities by a significant amount, since he has his fighting skills to make up for it.

Yeah, whatever. Let's face it, Kira is destined to be some bitch's boy toy for his whole damn life, whether it's Fllay or Lacus. Kira is the sword and the women in his life are his resolve.

You people are giving Fllay far too much credit. The only reason she was able to get as far as she did is that Kira let her. Anyone more down to earth than sweet little Kira would have just dumped that shit, assets or no. Nobody deserves to put up with a Fllay.

Have you thought about why he "let her", or are you not past putting 2 + 2 together yet? And both males and females put up with bullshit from people every day. Get your head out of your idealistic ass and wake up to how romance works on planet Earth and how not every relationship is Kira x Lacus-like. People use and abuse, whether they're male or female, using every resource they have from money to their body to guilt tripping. Fllay x Kira is a realistic relationship where someone was using someone else by controlling them with their sexual fantasies--things like these happen OUTSIDE OF ANIME, whether you like it or not.