AnimeSuki Forums

Thelastguardian · 2004-01-01, 04:53

you are over-generalizing the whole irc community. Join more channels that have a smaller population. you will notice the difference. Dont just stay in big channels with over 2000+ people.

As for the scrolling issue, the fast scrolling makes people not to get too focus on one particular point, this is why the topics can change so quickly.

AnimeOni · 2004-01-01, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelastguardian

ahuh sort of like banning the use of automobile in fear of its use to kill people by hitting them?

Yep. The city bans clubbing too. Creates a public safety issue. Strip bars are OK though. Maybe should go there instead

________
Hot box vaporizer

Thelastguardian · 2004-01-01, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnimeOni

Yep. The city bans clubbing too. Creates a public safety issue. Strip bars are OK though. Maybe should go there instead

Sounds fun, but they also started banning people to have pots for the fear of the pots being use as.....pots

Anyway back to topic, 'With great power comes great responsibility'. Some ops sucks at channel moderating I guess we all know that, but to say the truth I have seen equally amount of kicking done here (well they deserved it so eh). In the end not every channel behaves the same. So dont generalize them too quickly.

As for leeching lurkers, even if 99% of the names in a channel are lurkers, if the channel have 1000 people, that stills leaves you 10 people to talk with right? Plus not everyone like to use forums to have conversations.

acefighter · 2004-01-01, 15:34

bt is more efficent in most ways. faster dling speeds. more users at once. also easier to use

Forse · 2004-01-01, 16:46

I agree with Thelastguardian. It all depends on channel and even on server. For example you'll find a lot less morons on irc.freenode.net then for example on mircx. In any case...I've been channel op for long on some anime channels and *nix channels and I have NEVER seen one of our ops behaving like GipFace described. I myself ban only when I MUST. I can safely say that most ops I've seen are doing their job well.

Now about downloading...Well try some of iroffer XDCC bots that run on servers

You'll get nice 400kb/s - 800kb/s most of the time. I somehow noticed that most fservs are slow and that's why I always check if there is xdcc bot I could leech off. Every group (most) have xdcc bots (atleast one) which has good speeds. BT is great and I won't say it's not, but try to get for example some of the old episodes (like 6 month old) from BT....tough luck. BT is ONLY good for downloading popular stuff and after a week or two you again sit with 1 seed and dl speed 4kb/s. Not to mention that many ppl can't get BT even to work (memory leacks, ports issues etc).

I say use whatever you like (I don't think we need BT users on irc telling ppl how IRC suck and how everyone should use BT)

DekaMaster · 2004-01-01, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by acefighter

bt is more efficent in most ways. faster dling speeds. more users at once. also easier to use

Only if there are seeds.

zalas · 2004-01-01, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRanger

Only if there are seeds.

Only if leechers have hearts... or at least overnight downloads XD
Technically you can complete a download without any seeds provided every part of the file can be found on at least one leecher. The big speed surge at the beginning of bittorrent is due to leechers downloading from each other.

Keen · 2004-01-01, 21:12

If you're not going to have IRC, then have a forum on your website, or a reliable email address so people can contact you.

Worldestroyer · 2004-01-01, 21:22

IRC is usefull in manyways, use most channels depending on the server are mostly leeching channels. But there usually channels run by groups always have some sort of conversation going on, since most of there channels have silent fserv's and xdcc bots there are no adds just chat. yes the words go by quickly, so what? And even if it goes by quickly, it doesn't scare you. Actually for me, it makes me wana type more. Like people have said, bittorent is good for the first 2 weeks a file has been out, but after that it becomes inpractical. You need IRC to help distribute files after the inital release. With IRC you can ask people to help seed a certain file, if you really are obsessed with bottorent. And Channels could help in doing pre-distro so it's not a 1/4000 seed rape. IRC is usefull and kewl, i'm addicted to it personally. And if you want to see what a real IRC channel is supposed to be like go to #animesuki on irc.mircx.com .

BTW i just started the thread because scarywater had gone down, and i really wanted BPS 5.1 from "we suck", and i was thinking how much a IRC channel would help.

AnimeOni · 2004-01-02, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by zalas

Only if leechers have hearts... or at least overnight downloads XD
Technically you can complete a download without any seeds provided every part of the file can be found on at least one leecher. The big speed surge at the beginning of bittorrent is due to leechers downloading from each other.

I use Azureus to kick leachers and can block those who try to "hammer" my BT with multiple connections. It allows non-leachers to download faster. Some lucky people sometimes get an upstream of 64Kbps when I seed.
________
Soichiro Honda

teh_suck · 2004-01-05, 02:05

There are a few reasons why we use BitTorrent and not IRC for distro.
The first is that our own bandwidth is somewhat limited--initially we only had access to residential cable/DSL connections, and while we did have the ability to use a university connection as the initial seed for a while, events have panned out in such a way that this may not be possible in the future. The rate at which the file spiders out with a torrent is faster than the rate for an FTP or XDCC based distro network, plus the distro network doesn't need to be set up in advance. This was particularly relevant for the first few releases, since the group started somewhat spontaneously, and is still relevant because sometimes it can be hard to get a hold of specific people, but there's always a downloader somewhere who wants to help the file move around.
Second, we like to keep an eye on download counts. Torrents make this very easy (although newsgroups, and perhaps fserves in other groups' channels with our releases on them, skew these numbers), while XDCCs and second level fserves make it much more difficult. This isn't as serious a matter as the others, but if it came to the point where, for example, I was translating multiple series at once, I would prioritize the one with more downloaders.
Third, a lot of the anime serving XDCC bots are hacked, something we disapprove of strongly. If our name was on a hacked XDCC bot, it would reflect poorly on us, whereas if a bittorrent client was run from a hacked machine (although I don't know why someone would hook a remote machine they had hacked up to a torrent--it's not like it would speed up their own download) there's nothing we can be expected to do about it.
Fourth, it means we can restrict the ability to download our releases. You may have noticed that we are releasing the scripts to Popotan in DVDSubber format to encourage fans of the show to buy the DVDs. As we receive the DVDs, we disable the torrents for the episodes on it. If we were in an IRC channel, this would be very difficult to manage.
Fifth, on a similar vein, policing fserves and XDCC bots for licensed material, warez, etc. is a task which would take time away from our fansubbing and the rest of our lives.
While some people in a group's channel like discussion, most are just there to download. If you get all the people actually interested in discussion into a single room, it seems like you would get a higher quality discussion. I do note periodically on the website that I lurk on #animecentral@EnterTheGame, a channel which tracks releases of unlicensed fansubs, although I don't believe I have said it before in this forum. Thus, I am available to be reached if necessary. Also, I make a point of seeding any of our older releases for which there is no other seed, at least for as long as it takes for a new seed to be completed. Oh, and IRC networks have netsplits and other connectivity issues as well, so don't think the problems scarywater suffered recently are unique to it, or particularly common.

GipFace · 2004-01-05, 09:07

#animecentral? You mean flame-central, right?

getfresh · 2004-01-06, 21:36

IMO BT sucks ass, HTTP dumps cost money to maintain, and if you think DCC is slow your just retarded. With DCC transfers I've gotten upto 900kbytes/ps and I don't have to let god knows who access my computer nor does it send info about what I'm doing to everyone and their mother. Yes, granted an irc network it's self see's all transfers that happen, but no one is monitoring that. Only someone with access to the IRCD can check transfer logs and most the time no one would set the IRCD to log that as its just a waste of space/resources. Another thing ppl forget is fansubbing, well tolerated, is still %100 illegal. BT is just another form of spyware as far as I'm concerned. I feel since it has been introduced to the fansub scene that more and more people who are just using fansubs as a cheap way to get free stuff have been appearing. I think the real reason behind people using BT more is due to the fact that its another program designed for the computer illiterate, so it doesn't take any effert to use. On the other hand IRC requires you to learn how to type commands in a terminal format. Most people who are older and grew up using interfaces like DOS, UNIX Shells, C64's, T1's, and all those other wonderful interfaces have no problem with using IRC cause we are use to it. But, if this discussion is about leeching and nothing more, then learn to use newsgroups and stop being twits =p

Shii · 2004-01-06, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by getfresh

With DCC transfers I've gotten upto 900kbytes/ps

Congratulations!

Quote:

Originally Posted by getfresh

On the other hand IRC requires you to learn how to type commands in a terminal format. Most people who are older and grew up using interfaces like DOS, UNIX Shells, C64's, T1's, and all those other wonderful interfaces have no problem with using IRC cause we are use to it.

Where have I heard this before?

Oh, yes, it's a classic example of argumentum ad "ARE YOU HARDCORE ENOUGH?".

So I ask you, getfresh: Are you hardcore enough to sub it yourself? No, you aren't, you're downloading someone else's work. Sorry, even if you know all those elite IRC commands such as /join and !list, you are still not hardcore, you are a leech. Quod erat demonstratum.

Kasshin · 2004-01-06, 21:42

How about switching to a system where you download the .torrents off IRC... instead of a website? Of course, nobody would know about the release that way and sites like animesuki only report online http bittorrent links.

teh_suck · 2004-01-06, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasshin

How about switching to a system where you download the .torrents off IRC... instead of a website? Of course, nobody would know about the release that way and sites like animesuki only report online http bittorrent links.

A tracker is an http server. If you're running a tracker, it's not much of a stretch to run an http server with the torrent files on it.

Kasshin · 2004-01-06, 21:54

Yes, I know that. I run one myself, in fact. That was a suggestion for the people who want to keep people on IRC.

Danismyname · 2004-01-06, 23:06

well bt and irc both have their advantages. bt gets files out to more people, usually at a slower rate than irc, unless of course the leecher has a modem. its easier for the leecher to use, pretty much click and save, and to get older stuff you can ask some one to seed rather than search through fserves. irc bots are fast. you can get stuff off of irc that doesnt have any seed or trackers. it is a form of chatting to lots of people. and recently groups have been creating an archive xdcc bot which helps distibute the older stuff a lot faster, without the demand on the bots that host the new releases. irc is also more reliable.

also for me if i use bt the max speed i get is 2k/s because of packeteer that my school has installed. when im at home i usually never get more than 40k/s on anything. on irc xdcc bots i get 200k/s+ while im at school, and at home 80-90k/s. since i know where to look to get files on irc it takes me just as long to start downloading off of a bot as it does to start the file for bt.

both have their good and bad, and for smaller groups that releases slowly to go the way of irc, easier and faster distro, while bigger groups to do both. bt gets files to more people more effeciently, while irc gets files to people a lot faster.

getfresh · 2004-01-06, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashibaka

Congratulations!

Where have I heard this before?

Oh, yes, it's a classic example of argumentum ad "ARE YOU HARDCORE ENOUGH?".

So I ask you, getfresh: Are you hardcore enough to sub it yourself? No, you aren't, you're downloading someone else's work. Sorry, even if you know all those elite IRC commands such as /join and !list, you are still not hardcore, you are a leech. Quod erat demonstratum.

lol? You shouldn't post without knowledge about a person. For your information, yes I am a fansubber, no I don't leech anymore cause I don't have time, IRC is more then join and list, and if your whole purpose hear was just to try and act big by attacking me for my opinion then so be it.

I'll be sure to come back and read your reply just to see what further wisdom you have to impart upon me.

JAppi · 2004-01-06, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by getfresh

lol? You shouldn't post with no knowlege about a person. For your infomation, yes I am a fansubber, no I don't leech anymore cause I don't have time, IRC is more then join and list, and if your whole purposs hear was just to try and act big by attacking me for my opinion then so be it.

I'll be sure to come back and read your reply just to see what further wisdow you have to impart upon me.

PWNT

GG getfresh.

You're a typesetter for miyuki? (Gah, hope I'm not wrong)

View Poll Results: Should groups have IRC channels
YES	43	63.24%
NO	25	36.76%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

2004-01-01, 04:53	Link #21
Thelastguardian ... Join Date: Nov 2003	you are over-generalizing the whole irc community. Join more channels that have a smaller population. you will notice the difference. Dont just stay in big channels with over 2000+ people. As for the scrolling issue, the fast scrolling makes people not to get too focus on one particular point, this is why the topics can change so quickly. __________________ Last edited by Thelastguardian; 2004-01-01 at 14:26. Reason: typo

2004-01-05, 02:05	Link #31
teh_suck AKA Torgen from We Suck Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003	No, and that's final. There are a few reasons why we use BitTorrent and not IRC for distro. The first is that our own bandwidth is somewhat limited--initially we only had access to residential cable/DSL connections, and while we did have the ability to use a university connection as the initial seed for a while, events have panned out in such a way that this may not be possible in the future. The rate at which the file spiders out with a torrent is faster than the rate for an FTP or XDCC based distro network, plus the distro network doesn't need to be set up in advance. This was particularly relevant for the first few releases, since the group started somewhat spontaneously, and is still relevant because sometimes it can be hard to get a hold of specific people, but there's always a downloader somewhere who wants to help the file move around. Second, we like to keep an eye on download counts. Torrents make this very easy (although newsgroups, and perhaps fserves in other groups' channels with our releases on them, skew these numbers), while XDCCs and second level fserves make it much more difficult. This isn't as serious a matter as the others, but if it came to the point where, for example, I was translating multiple series at once, I would prioritize the one with more downloaders. Third, a lot of the anime serving XDCC bots are hacked, something we disapprove of strongly. If our name was on a hacked XDCC bot, it would reflect poorly on us, whereas if a bittorrent client was run from a hacked machine (although I don't know why someone would hook a remote machine they had hacked up to a torrent--it's not like it would speed up their own download) there's nothing we can be expected to do about it. Fourth, it means we can restrict the ability to download our releases. You may have noticed that we are releasing the scripts to Popotan in DVDSubber format to encourage fans of the show to buy the DVDs. As we receive the DVDs, we disable the torrents for the episodes on it. If we were in an IRC channel, this would be very difficult to manage. Fifth, on a similar vein, policing fserves and XDCC bots for licensed material, warez, etc. is a task which would take time away from our fansubbing and the rest of our lives. While some people in a group's channel like discussion, most are just there to download. If you get all the people actually interested in discussion into a single room, it seems like you would get a higher quality discussion. I do note periodically on the website that I lurk on #animecentral@EnterTheGame, a channel which tracks releases of unlicensed fansubs, although I don't believe I have said it before in this forum. Thus, I am available to be reached if necessary. Also, I make a point of seeding any of our older releases for which there is no other seed, at least for as long as it takes for a new seed to be completed. Oh, and IRC networks have netsplits and other connectivity issues as well, so don't think the problems scarywater suffered recently are unique to it, or particularly common.

2004-01-05, 09:07	Link #32
GipFace Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Puyo puyo. #animecentral? You mean flame-central, right?

2004-01-01, 15:34	Link #24
acefighter Banned Join Date: Dec 2003	bt is more efficent in most ways. faster dling speeds. more users at once. also easier to use

2004-01-01, 16:46	Link #25
Forse r00t for life Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: /dev/null	I agree with Thelastguardian. It all depends on channel and even on server. For example you'll find a lot less morons on irc.freenode.net then for example on mircx. In any case...I've been channel op for long on some anime channels and *nix channels and I have NEVER seen one of our ops behaving like GipFace described. I myself ban only when I MUST. I can safely say that most ops I've seen are doing their job well. Now about downloading...Well try some of iroffer XDCC bots that run on servers You'll get nice 400kb/s - 800kb/s most of the time. I somehow noticed that most fservs are slow and that's why I always check if there is xdcc bot I could leech off. Every group (most) have xdcc bots (atleast one) which has good speeds. BT is great and I won't say it's not, but try to get for example some of the old episodes (like 6 month old) from BT....tough luck. BT is ONLY good for downloading popular stuff and after a week or two you again sit with 1 seed and dl speed 4kb/s. Not to mention that many ppl can't get BT even to work (memory leacks, ports issues etc). I say use whatever you like (I don't think we need BT users on irc telling ppl how IRC suck and how everyone should use BT)

2004-01-01, 21:12	Link #28
Keen Member Join Date: Mar 2003	If you're not going to have IRC, then have a forum on your website, or a reliable email address so people can contact you.

2004-01-01, 21:22	Link #29
Worldestroyer IRC lurker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston, MA USA Age: 35	IRC is usefull in manyways, use most channels depending on the server are mostly leeching channels. But there usually channels run by groups always have some sort of conversation going on, since most of there channels have silent fserv's and xdcc bots there are no adds just chat. yes the words go by quickly, so what? And even if it goes by quickly, it doesn't scare you. Actually for me, it makes me wana type more. Like people have said, bittorent is good for the first 2 weeks a file has been out, but after that it becomes inpractical. You need IRC to help distribute files after the inital release. With IRC you can ask people to help seed a certain file, if you really are obsessed with bottorent. And Channels could help in doing pre-distro so it's not a 1/4000 seed rape. IRC is usefull and kewl, i'm addicted to it personally. And if you want to see what a real IRC channel is supposed to be like go to #animesuki on irc.mircx.com . BTW i just started the thread because scarywater had gone down, and i really wanted BPS 5.1 from "we suck", and i was thinking how much a IRC channel would help.

2004-01-06, 21:36	Link #33
getfresh done Fansubber Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Yokosuka, JP Age: 43	IMO BT sucks ass, HTTP dumps cost money to maintain, and if you think DCC is slow your just retarded. With DCC transfers I've gotten upto 900kbytes/ps and I don't have to let god knows who access my computer nor does it send info about what I'm doing to everyone and their mother. Yes, granted an irc network it's self see's all transfers that happen, but no one is monitoring that. Only someone with access to the IRCD can check transfer logs and most the time no one would set the IRCD to log that as its just a waste of space/resources. Another thing ppl forget is fansubbing, well tolerated, is still %100 illegal. BT is just another form of spyware as far as I'm concerned. I feel since it has been introduced to the fansub scene that more and more people who are just using fansubs as a cheap way to get free stuff have been appearing. I think the real reason behind people using BT more is due to the fact that its another program designed for the computer illiterate, so it doesn't take any effert to use. On the other hand IRC requires you to learn how to type commands in a terminal format. Most people who are older and grew up using interfaces like DOS, UNIX Shells, C64's, T1's, and all those other wonderful interfaces have no problem with using IRC cause we are use to it. But, if this discussion is about leeching and nothing more, then learn to use newsgroups and stop being twits =p

2004-01-06, 21:42	Link #35
Kasshin Kasshin X Kasshin Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC	How about switching to a system where you download the .torrents off IRC... instead of a website? Of course, nobody would know about the release that way and sites like animesuki only report online http bittorrent links.

2004-01-06, 21:54	Link #37
Kasshin Kasshin X Kasshin Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vancouver, BC	Yes, I know that. I run one myself, in fact. That was a suggestion for the people who want to keep people on IRC.

2004-01-06, 23:06	Link #38
Danismyname Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Age: 40	well bt and irc both have their advantages. bt gets files out to more people, usually at a slower rate than irc, unless of course the leecher has a modem. its easier for the leecher to use, pretty much click and save, and to get older stuff you can ask some one to seed rather than search through fserves. irc bots are fast. you can get stuff off of irc that doesnt have any seed or trackers. it is a form of chatting to lots of people. and recently groups have been creating an archive xdcc bot which helps distibute the older stuff a lot faster, without the demand on the bots that host the new releases. irc is also more reliable. also for me if i use bt the max speed i get is 2k/s because of packeteer that my school has installed. when im at home i usually never get more than 40k/s on anything. on irc xdcc bots i get 200k/s+ while im at school, and at home 80-90k/s. since i know where to look to get files on irc it takes me just as long to start downloading off of a bot as it does to start the file for bt. both have their good and bad, and for smaller groups that releases slowly to go the way of irc, easier and faster distro, while bigger groups to do both. bt gets files to more people more effeciently, while irc gets files to people a lot faster.