High School DxD [LN/M] - Volume 25 Discussion / Poll

[Lucidrago]

I meant why didn't the Norse gods choose Brynhildr as Vidar's bride. This seemed to be something that Vidar was just pushed into and he just agreed with their demands. And it seemed he only mentioned being engaged to Rossweisse after he saw how she was acting when she was drunk and was amused.

Vidar didn't plan this out but was just an unfortunate victim of it.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

So why Rose (according to the spoilers) will try to have sex with Issei to cancel the wedding (same as Rias in volume 2)? Even if Issei lose the match she can still refuse the marriage.

And what you said does not explain why she can not say "no" and end it all. The Norse gods do not have power over her to pressure her. They can say whatever they want, they might even force her parents to tell her she should marry Vidar, in the moment she says "no" there is nothing they can do.

While this is technically correct, it'd basically be backhanding the most powerful people in her country across the face.

Societal pressure is a thing.

[Lucidrago]

Norse gods: "Hey can you marry our new chief god who you don't know at all because he needs to produce an heir ASAP? Yeah we're sorry our previous chief god Odin basically left you in Japan. So to make it up to you, we'll have you marry Odin's son who is our new chief god. Did we mention that he's our new chief god and that he's very handsome and powerful and rich? Well since this is an offer you can't refuse(and many women would die for BTW), we'll basically act like you said yes and put the arrangements in order now despite not having any such authority to make you marry Vidar. But you were one of us so you really can't deny us in our desperate time of need. So we're really not asking you, but demanding you. Again we have no such authority to do this. And we're also assuming you're not in any sort of intimate relationship with your master, the Sekiryuutei. Okay. LOLZIES! BYE!"

P.S. "If you're wondering why we couldn't pick anyone else to marry Vidar, we basically don't know either. You're just the most suitable person who came to mind."

[XFire]

You all did notice Rose did in fact say "No" outright, right?

They're just going along with Vidars plan to make things smoother.

[Lucidrago]

When was that ever said?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

When was that ever said?

???

"Screw you I'm going to marry my master"

Followed by Vidar offering to call it all off if Ise beats him.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

???

"Screw you I'm going to marry my master"

Followed by Vidar offering to call it all off if Ise beats him.

And that's the problem. Even if Issei does not win against him, Rose will not marry Vidar if she does not want to.

That's my problem with this plot. Everyone is letting the norse gods do as they please and decide things for themselves when they should solve this simple problem quickly. This situation is very bizarre. Why did Ishibumi come up with this kind of idea? Maybe he tried to recreate the same feeling from Volume 2 of "Oh no, Issei's going to have the girl he likes stolen by another guy!". If that was his intention then he failed since the moment he said that all the girls will have a happy ending.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

And that's the problem. Even if Issei does not win against him, Rose will not marry Vidar if she does not want to.

That's my problem with this plot. Everyone is letting the norse gods do as they please and decide things for themselves when they should solve this simple problem quickly. This situation is very bizarre. Why did Ishibumi come up with this kind of idea? Maybe he tried to recreate the same feeling from Volume 2 of "Oh no, Issei's going to have the girl he likes stolen by another guy!". If that was his intention then he failed since the moment he said that all the girls will have a happy ending.

The Norse gods are being rude, but they haven't done anything illegal. From a political standpoint it isn't even entirely unreasonable given she isn't actually engaged to Issei yet.

If Rose just flat out turned him down it would cause problems on a political scale as well as for her family, which is why they take Vidars proposal.

And again, Vidar is just playing things up to provoke Issei. He's trying to recreate the Riser/Rias scenario in Universe so Issei will come at him full force.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

The Norse gods are being rude, but they haven't done anything illegal. From a political standpoint it isn't even entirely unreasonable given she isn't actually engaged to Issei yet.

If Rose just flat out turned him down it would cause problems on a political scale as well as for her family, which is why they take Vidars proposal.

And again, Vidar is just playing things up to provoke Issei. He's trying to recreate the Riser/Rias scenario in Universe so Issei will come at him full force.

Sigh.

"From a political standpoint it isn't even entirely unreasonable given she isn't actually engaged to Issei yet."

Norse gods are uniterally trying to get the servant of the underworld's greatest hero to marry their chief god. Okay. That certainly would not give any political problem.

"If Rose just flat out turned him down it would cause problems on a political scale as well as for her family, which is why they take Vidars proposal."

What kind of political problems could happen when a devil refuse a marriage request from a Norse god?

"And again, Vidar is just playing things up to provoke Issei. He's trying to recreate the Riser/Rias scenario in Universe so Issei will come at him full force."

And this is stupid. Issei would go full force against him anyway.

No matter how you look at it, this plot of marriage makes no sense at all. Ishibumi just had no better idea of ​​how to make Issei and Rose take a step forward in their relationship. To be honest, if he'd just made her confess in the middle of the battle in the same way he did with Xenovia and Irina, it would have been better than this marriage bullshit.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Sigh.

Norse gods are uniterally trying to get the servant of the underworld's greatest hero to marry their chief god. Okay. That certainly would not give any political problem

What political problem? Ise and Rias formally protested the way they went about it and they backed down to a level they couldn't reasonably object to.

Rose still has ties to the Norse side, her entire family still lives there, and the literal king of the Norse Gods is the one asking.

Issei doesn't hold a superior political position here, if that's what you're implying.

Originally Posted by Palmito

What kind of political problems could happen when a devil refuse a marriage request from a Norse god?

You mean besides publicly humiliating one of their first major allies in the alliance by having the servant of a high-class devil reject their Chief God? Yeah, that totally wouldn't sour a diplomatic relationship at all.

Originally Posted by Palmito

And this is stupid. Issei would go full force against him anyway.

He wouldn't have gone to the extent that he did to prepare for it, and likely wouldn't have gotten Indra's help for a match with functionally nothing on the line.


Like, you get that this is a politically arranged marriage in an aristocracy, right? Issei going all tough guy and telling the Norse Gods to just shut up and get lost because they can't "force" anything would be an absolutely horrendous political move, especially from him. He's not that dumb.

Vidar's public duel is effectively the only way to get out of this without making one side look bad.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

What political problem? Ise and Rias formally protested the way they went about it and they backed down to a level they couldn't reasonably object to.

Rose still has ties to the Norse side, her entire family still lives there, and the literal king of the Norse Gods is the one asking.

Issei doesn't hold a superior political position here, if that's what you're implying.



You mean besides publicly humiliating one of their first major allies in the alliance by having the servant of a high-class devil reject their Chief God? Yeah, that totally wouldn't sour a diplomatic relationship at all.



He wouldn't have gone to the extent that he did to prepare for it, and likely wouldn't have gotten Indra's help for a match with functionally nothing on the line.


Like, you get that this is a politically arranged marriage in an aristocracy, right? Issei going all tough guy and telling the Norse Gods to just shut up and get lost because they can't "force" anything would be an absolutely horrendous political move, especially from him. He's not that dumb.

Vidar's public duel is effectively the only way to get out of this without making one side look bad.

1- He's not asking, he's demanding, and yes, Issei has more power over Rose than anyone else. Even if she wanted to marry Vidar if Issei forbade her she could not do anything about it. You're confusing the fact that Vidar has political power over Rose's family as if he also had political power over Rose. You are wrong. Neither Vidar nor her family has power over her. And if you think that a Norse god trying to force one of the Oppai Dragon family members to marry him would not bring any kind of political problem then ... well? It is your opinion.

2- Does that mean she's forced to accept the marriage request just so as not to embarrass Vidar? lol. And a Norse god trying to force one of the Oppai Dragon's servants to marry him wouldn't sour a diplomatic relationship at all too.

3- That is your personal opinion. He could have received help from Indra in the same way and maybe prepared himself even better. Who knows?

4- It is not a marriage arranged on both sides. The Norse gods are uniterally solving everything by themselves in a marriage with someone that they have no political power whatsoever. Letting them do what they want would be a much worse political move than confronting them directly.

5- And no. The best way to cancel all this bullshit would be to never have invented this stupid plan to bring Issei and Rose together and let them evolve their relationship in their rhythm.

[Darksider555]

The question is that does the Norse side have any influence over Rose due to the fact she went over to the devil side, first with Rias before she was traded to Ise.

If we were to look at this from a side perspective, that would mean that say the Church would still have influence over Xenovia after exiling her.

Rose's family is still a part of the Norse side but Rose is Ise's servant so there is that hurdle to deal with.

It's still callous of the Norse Gods to dump Rose on her own then request she obey their will after she already made a name for herself as a Gremory peerage member.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

1- He's not asking, he's demanding, and yes, Issei has more power over Rose than anyone else. Even if she wanted to marry Vidar if Issei forbade her she could not do anything about it. You're confusing the fact that Vidar has political power over Rose's family as if he also had political power over Rose. You are wrong. Neither Vidar nor her family has power over her. And if you think that a Norse god trying to force one of the Oppai Dragon family members to marry him would not bring any kind of political problem then ... well? It is your opinion.

I...I dont think you understand how politics work. Or how rank works. Or diplomacy.

Yes, Rose can just say no. Issei can just say no. They could laugh in Vidars face and blow him off.

Thus humiliating the entire Norse mythology and heavily souring relations between two of the Alliance's founding members.

This isn't a purely personal matter anymore, its political, which is why it's being handled so delicately.

You don't call out major political allies in public if you want them to remain allies.

Originally Posted by Palmito

2- Does that mean she's forced to accept the marriage request just so as not to embarrass Vidar? lol. And a Norse god trying to force one of the Oppai Dragon's servants to marry him wouldn't sour a diplomatic relationship at all too.

No, because Issei and Rias protested the action and they backed down. All that they were able to get was a marriage meeting. But just arbitrarily refusing would still be embarrassing for the Norse, hence the duel.

Originally Posted by Palmito

3- That is your personal opinion. He could have received help from Indra in the same way and maybe prepared himself even better. Who knows?

The amarita nearly kills him. That's not something Issei, who has already nearly lost his life for power in the past, would take so lightly as to do for something he could gain over time unless the situation demanded it.

Originally Posted by Palmito

4- It is not a marriage arranged on both sides. The Norse gods are uniterally solving everything by themselves in a marriage with someone that they have no political power whatsoever. Letting them do what they want would be a much worse political move than confronting them directly.

Which is why they didn't. They acted through proper channels and got them to back down.

And while the Norse have no direct power over her, the devils do and their relationship with the Norse happens to be one of the cornerstones to fucking WORLD PEACE so do you really think they should immediately trash that because they got pissed off, rightly or not?

Originally Posted by Palmito

5- And no. The best way to cancel all this bullshit would be to never have invented this stupid plan to bring Issei and Rose together and let them evolve their relationship in their rhythm.

The plan was invented by a bunch of politically minded old men in the Norse background. They dont know about Issei and Rose's feelings for each other and their idiocy for doing this is noted by several sides.


The engagement is a farce and should have never happened. That's never in doubt at any moment. But the duel is effectively the only way to get both sides out of it without losing face.

This is Vidar cleaning up the mess his side caused and shoving Issei and Rose forward at the same time.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

I...I dont think you understand how politics work. Or how rank works. Or diplomacy.

Yes, Rose can just say no. Issei can just say no. They could laugh in Vidars face and blow him off.

Thus humiliating the entire Norse mythology and heavily souring relations between two of the Alliance's founding members.

This isn't a purely personal matter anymore, its political, which is why it's being handled so delicately.

You don't call out major political allies in public if you want them to remain allies.



No, because Issei and Rias protested the action and they backed down. All that they were able to get was a marriage meeting. But just arbitrarily refusing would still be embarrassing for the Norse, hence the duel.



The amarita nearly kills him. That's not something Issei, who has already nearly lost his life for power in the past, would take so lightly as to do for something he could gain over time unless the situation demanded it.



Which is why they didn't. They acted through proper channels and got them to back down.

And while the Norse have no direct power over her, the devils do and their relationship with the Norse happens to be one of the cornerstones to fucking WORLD PEACE so do you really think they should immediately trash that because they got pissed off, rightly or not?



The plan was invented by a bunch of politically minded old men in the Norse background. They dont know about Issei and Rose's feelings for each other and their idiocy for doing this is noted by several sides.


The engagement is a farce and should have never happened. That's never in doubt at any moment. But the duel is effectively the only way to get both sides out of it without losing face.

This is Vidar cleaning up the mess his side caused and shoving Issei and Rose forward at the same time.

I do not understand. How would a "no" be humiliating? YOU think they will be humiliated for it.

"You don't call out major political allies in public if you want them to remain allies."

Who is saying something about public? No one here is saying they should go to the press and talk shit about the Norse gods. Just send a letter saying "I respectfully refuse" and that's it. The media does not need to know anything. Now if after that they still keep on insisting then they brought shame to themselves.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

I do not understand. How would a "no" be humiliating? YOU think they will be humiliated for it.

"You don't call out major political allies in public if you want them to remain allies."

Who is saying something about public? No one here is saying they should go to the press and talk shit about the Norse gods. Just send a letter saying "I respectfully refuse" and that's it. The media does not need to know anything. Now if after that they still keep on insisting then they brought shame to themselves.

What?

How would the servant of a high-class devil spurning a marriage to the king of the Norse gods be humiliating? How is that a question? This is the servant of a knight refusing a foreign king. That's the scenario here. It'd make them a laughingstock.

As for the public, are you under the impression this is secret? He's a chief God, dude, he has as much "private time" as Trump
Everything they do is public. That's how politics works.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

What?

How would the servant of a high-class devil spurning a marriage to the king of the Norse gods be humiliating? How is that a question? This is the servant of a knight refusing a foreign king. That's the scenario here. It'd make them a laughingstock.

As for the public, are you under the impression this is secret? He's a chief God, dude, he has as much "private time" as Trump
Everything they do is public. That's how politics works.

So you're once again saying that Rose and the devils have no choice but to accept the arbitrary request of another faction just so as not to embarrass that faction. OK

So in YOUR opinion, this is all public. It has never been said that it is public at any moment, and if by chance this case becomes public the Norse gods would have already brought shame to themselves at least in the eyes of the population of the underworld.

[Crimson_Emperor]

im tired to visit this forum to see useless arguments

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Palmito

So you're once again saying that Rose and the devils have no choice but to accept the arbitrary request of another faction just so as not to embarrass that faction. OK

No, I'm not. Hence why I keep pointing out the fact that Ise and Rias responded politically and the Norse backed down. All I've been saying is that acting like an internet tough guy to the leader of one of your nation's biggest allies is a horrible political idea, which is why Issei didnt do it despite being pissed as hell at the situation.

Originally Posted by Palmito

So in YOUR opinion, this is all public. It has never been said that it is public at any moment, and if by chance this case becomes public the Norse gods would have already brought shame to themselves at least in the eyes of the population of the underworld.

Unless something has drastically changed about the general situation of the upper class after the past 24 volumes of them only having private lives in the human world, it's public.

And asking for this marriage is not shameful to the general public. Remember that Rose is not engaged to Issei and they haven't done anything to suggest they're in love in public either. As far as most are concerned this would be seen as an honor.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by XFire

No, I'm not. Hence why I keep pointing out the fact that Ise and Rias responded politically and the Norse backed down. All I've been saying is that acting like an internet tough guy to the leader of one of your nation's biggest allies is a horrible political idea, which is why Issei didnt do it despite being pissed as hell at the situation.



Unless something has drastically changed about the general situation of the upper class after the past 24 volumes of them only having private lives in the human world, it's public.

And asking for this marriage is not shameful to the general public. Remember that Rose is not engaged to Issei and they haven't done anything to suggest they're in love in public either. As far as most are concerned this would be seen as an honor.

Huh no? I said that a simple "no" would not be something humiliating for the norse gods, then in your last post you said it would be, now you're saying that Rias and Issei said "no" and everything was okay? What about consistency? To begin with, who said they should act rudely?

An honor? LMAO. Head line - "Norse Chief God tries to force Oppai Dragon's servant to marry him." Yeah, public opinion would really think it would be an honor to be forced to marry a man you do not want to and who is the son of man who has left you behind by yourself in a foreign country. But what a good man, huh? Trying to steal one of the girls from our national hero, Oppai Dragon. People in the underworld and other factions will really think high of Vidar. It will not be shameful for him at all.

And if you want to make your own head canon and think that this incident is public then ok. So far nothing has been said about it.

[Lucidrago]

Well one it was the Norse gods that decided for Rossweisse to be Vidar's bride, not Vidar himself. Vidar just went along with it. Like how Riser just went along with his engagement to Rias. This doesn't seem like something Vidar planned himself but something that he just simply went along with.

We have no idea if this is public or not. It's not like they have been officially engaged so why would it be?

But really it just seems like a forced plot point just for Rossweisse's volume. As there is no reason she can't refuse something as extreme as a marriage proposal. Yes it may embarrass the Norse faction and to deny a marriage proposal to a chief god is a major issue. But still it just seems very forced. Because while she did come from their world and they are in an alliance,

They're basically asking her to give her life away to a man she barely even knows and she can't say no? The Norse gods are in the wrong here, not Rossweisse. Rossweisse has no obligation or duty to even go along with it.

It just seems like a very weak plot point with little reasoning behind it to me. That's all I have to say.