Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

I thought he was using Blue this chapter, not UI?

Vegeta offering himself up as a sacrifice doesn't really make sense to me. Like, I get he understands the quest for vengeance, but I really don't see why he feels a need to just let himself get off'd.

The Bardock thing is just to get Granolah on their side. It won't amount to anything beyond that.

That's my point. He wasn't using UI and did better than with it. This Granolah was a lot stronger than the clone he fought and the one that knocked him out earlier.

Vegeta being willing to sacrifice himself is related to what Beerus told him when the arc started. He feels responsible and guilty about the Saiyans and his own past actions. He fought his hardest in order to survive, but he was okay with dying at the hand of someone who suffered because of his people.

I'm afraid they're going to whitewash Bardock.

[BladeMancer]

Ultra Ego is still definetly in the Ultra Instinct sign stage. That Vegeta has to "revert" to a personality he grew out from tells a lot about how unreliable the power is at its current state. Vegeta being capable of invoking from a different perspective may allow him to actually and unironically gain a power equivalent to mastered ultra instinct. I think that in conjunction with his new fission power, Vegeta should be able to offload the damage he gets to deal more damage and have more stamina in a fight

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That's my point. He wasn't using UI and did better than with it.

Sorry it's late, but I think the feat that Goku manages to pull in this chapter is because of UI. For starter, we don't see anyone else can do that. To me, it's more like Goku can now communicate very well with his body, and his body can respond to any need Goku wants. That needs crazy amount of training and you need to know your body real well to do so(don't know a thing in martial art, but I think there is something similar like that in real life?? )

Vegeta when he wins--"Finally I don't need to protect anything", "Who cares if your tribe got slaughtered!"

Vegeta when he loses--"Sorry I can't be as cold-hearted as I used to be", "Your hate against us is justified"

Luckily we all know Vegeta's backstory, but still sounds like a sore loser

And I hope we don't whitewash Badrock as well

[Tong]

Ok, so after this arc showing that UI isnt some kind of magical transformation that makes Goku nighly invincible and impossible to beat, and after witnessing Ultra Ego, can we still hope for a Goku vs Beerus rematch?

[Kanon]

Full chapter summary and some pics are out. Long story short...

Spoiler for 77:

Bardock sees Granolah and his mom fleeing and goes after them, but when he sees it's just a kid and his mom he's reminded of Gine and Goku (poor Raditz lmao) and decides to help them escape. He finds Monaito hiding deep in the mountains and soon after the Heeters find them as well. Elec kills Granolah's mother and Bardock (wearing a cloak to cover his face) attacks the Heeters and escapes after grabbing Monaito and Granolah. Heeters are unharmed because Gas put up a shield to protect them.

Flashback ends with Bardock parting ways with Monaito and Granolah (unconscious the whole time). Back to the present, Monaito tells Goku he looks a lot like Bardock and asks if he knows him, with Goku replying he has no clue since he was raised on Earth. Vegeta then reveals that Bardock was the name of Goku's father, and adds that Goku must have inherited his kindness from him (sigh...).

So yeah, nothing groundbreaking. The Heeters are planning to take out everyone now that they're weakened, and Elec says they always have the Dragon Balls to fall back on if things go south.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Full chapter summary and some pics are out. Long story short...

Spoiler for 77:

Bardock sees Granolah and his mom fleeing and goes after them, but when he sees it's just a kid and his mom he's reminded of Gine and Goku (poor Raditz lmao) and decides to help them escape. He finds Monaito hiding deep in the mountains and soon after the Heeters find them as well. Elec kills Granolah's mother and Bardock (wearing a cloak to cover his face) attacks the Heeters and escapes after grabbing Monaito and Granolah. Heeters are unharmed because Gas put up a shield to protect them.

Flashback ends with Bardock parting ways with Monaito and Granolah (unconscious the whole time). Back to the present, Monaito tells Goku he looks a lot like Bardock and asks if he knows him, with Goku replying he has no clue since he was raised on Earth. Vegeta then reveals that Bardock was the name of Goku's father, and adds that Goku must have inherited his kindness from him (sigh...).

So yeah, nothing groundbreaking. The Heeters are planning to take out everyone now that they're weakened, and Elec says they always have the Dragon Balls to fall back on if things go south.

Spoiler:

"Heeters are unharmed because Gas put up a shield to protect them."

Why would they even need a shield? Bardock's power level would be well under 10,000 at this point. If these Heeters are supposed to be any level of threat now, there's no reason to believe they should've felt threatened by Bardock of all people back then.

Also, stop trying to make "Bardock was kind" a thing DB writers. He was only interesting because he was morally gray, and this detracts from both Grandpa Gohan and Goku himself by trying to make everything about Bardock.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

Spoiler:

"Heeters are unharmed because Gas put up a shield to protect them."

Why would they even need a shield? Bardock's power level would be well under 10,000 at this point. If these Heeters are supposed to be any level of threat now, there's no reason to believe they should've felt threatened by Bardock of all people back then.

Also, stop trying to make "Bardock was kind" a thing DB writers. He was only interesting because he was morally gray, and this detracts from both Grandpa Gohan and Goku himself by trying to make everything about Bardock.

Spoiler for 77:

I've always seen the Heeters as complete scrubs, personally. So to me it makes sense that Gas, the only one who seems a bit strong, would need to step up to protect his siblings. And I think Gas is actually very weak too. They've been planning to overthrow Freeza since all the way back then, yet they've never made a move until Goku killed him two decades later. It's highly doubtful they knew Frieza's true power either, so that means they weren't confident Gas could beat first form Frieza. They apparently can't sense ki and they don't use scouters, so I'm thinking they have no clue whatsoever how strong Goku and Vegeta really are.

They should have canonized OVA Bardock instead of giving us this watered down version.

[AP24]

Spoiler for 77:

Looks like the strongest one in the prophecy wasn’t referring to Granolah

[n0m@n]

Just read the chapter. But.
Wait, 40 years ago?
Goku is more than 40 years old now. And shouldn't Bardock be already dead?

[AP24]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Just read the chapter. But.
Wait, 40 years ago?
Goku is more than 40 years old now. And shouldn't Bardock be already dead?

Have you forgotten that Goku is a grandpa now?

The flashback took place when the Saiyans were still alive

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by AP24

Have you forgotten that Goku is a grandpa now?

The flashback took place when the Saiyans were still alive

Yeah, the timeline is fine. The events of this flashback most likely take place right before Minus.

[B214]

Originally Posted by AP24

Have you forgotten that Goku is a grandpa now?

The flashback took place when the Saiyans were still alive

Yeah, n0m@n is asking how is this taking place 40 years ago when Goku is already older than 40.

[AP24]

Oh, I thought he was asking if Goku was over 40 years old

[GDB]

I assume it's just rounding. Looking at the timeline, Goku was born in 737. Current year is 780 or so, so 43 years.

Though Goku was dead for 7 of those, so physically he isn't 40 yet, I suppose?

[B214]

Originally Posted by GDB

I assume it's just rounding. Looking at the timeline, Goku was born in 737. Current year is 780 or so, so 43 years.

Though Goku was dead for 7 of those, so physically he isn't 40 yet, I suppose?

Physically yes, but it doesn't change the year he was born.
Also Goku was a baby when he was sent to Earth, if this is real then he would be 3/4 year old when he reached Earth?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by B214

Physically yes, but it doesn't change the year he was born.
Also Goku was a baby when he was sent to Earth, if this is real then he would be 3/4 year old when he reached Earth?

That was retconned quite some time ago in Minus. Goku was sent to Earth when he was three, wearing Saiyan armor.

Haven't you watched the Broly movie? That's in it, too.

We don't actually know when Bardock's flashback within the flashback takes place. Him naming Goku could have been an event that happened a couple years ago, and he remembered that in this chapter because it stuck with him. This way, no issue with the timeline.

[Tuor]

Keep in mind that Goku has also spent time in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I'm not sure how long, but it should be added to his age.

[alex_drian]

Originally Posted by Tuor

Keep in mind that Goku has also spent time in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I'm not sure how long, but it should be added to his age.

I think 1 year in Cell arc + 3 in Super anime (I don't remember if it was in the manga) But I don't remember what was his age before dying the first time. I counted him in his 50 physically but I suppose I'm wrong. Vegeta is like 65-70 in this point due to Time Chamber abuse.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by alex_drian

I think 1 year in Cell arc + 3 in Super anime (I don't remember if it was in the manga) But I don't remember what was his age before dying the first time. I counted him in his 50 physically but I suppose I'm wrong. Vegeta is like 65-70 in this point due to Time Chamber abuse.

Vegeta isn't that old

In Dragon ball, he spent three years in the RoSat. It's the limit. I don't remember how much he's used it in Super, but there's no way it was 10+ years.

[Kanon]

I saw it coming but part of me was hoping they wouldn't sink this low

Spoiler for 78:

The Heeters wished to make Gas the strongest in the Universe, effectively meaning the exact same plot device was used twice in a row. We'll never find out Gas' real level, since he's already powered up when he faces Granolah and the Saiyans. I still say he was total scrub not even on Namek Frieza level. We have confirmation he was defeated by Bardock 40 years ago too.