To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 20 Discussion / Poll

[Doe, John]

Originally Posted by shmaster

The problem is, Aleister has this magic where he can direct the ripples of the phases to any direction he want, which he used when fighting Touma.
And these ripples of phases existed only because magic has recoils. If the recoil does not exist, how does Aleister arrive to that magic that controls the ripples?

That's a very good question. The only answer I can think of that Aleister is manipulating something else without realising it. It might be similar to how Fiamma of the Right forcibly incorporated Imagine Breaker into his own Holy Right, while being mistaken on IB's true nature and having no idea that it was sealing something.

EDIT: As another example, Touma doesn't understand the true nature of Imagine Breaker, nor does he fully understand the powers of the magicians and espers he fights. That doesn't stop him from using IB to negate the latter.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Doe, John

That's a very good question. The only answer I can think of that Aleister is manipulating something else without realising it. It might be similar to how Fiamma of the Right forcibly incorporated Imagine Breaker into his own Holy Right, while being mistaken on IB's true nature and having no idea that it was sealing something.

Yeah, it's very possible that he only understands part of the big picture, enough to think that he knows more than he thinks he does. This is very possible considering how fallible he's been lately. It's honestly a very weird feeling. Our glorious chessmaster is just a girl who fails again and again and is schooled by her master in an unsightly way.

[Kuroageha]

Don't trust Aiwass either.

[KiharaRonin]

I honestly like the direction Aleister went. It works for his character and I feel he only grasps, slightly more than Fiamma did.
However, Aiwass definitely knows a lot more, after what we've seen, I'm even more intrigued by him than in the past, for sure, and I was super intrigued by him then. I'm not sure if he knows everything but NT18-NT19 definitely show he's far ahead of the game, when it comes to knowledge on IB.

[Doe, John]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

Don't trust Aiwass either.

Definitely. One of the themes of the series is that humans should rely on their own power and not on higher beings like gods. Yet Aleister bases his/her entire philosophy on Aiwass' words. I wouldn't be surprised if Aiwass is revealed to be evil at some point.

[shmaster]

Kamachi already stated Aiwass is not a benevolent being for a while now.
Hell, Aiwass didn't help Aleister because the Holy Guardian Angel is a kind and compassionate being. But because Aiwass can mock Aleister by being nice to him.
It is pointing out the good end that Aleister can never achieve by himself and then calls him stupid for his failure.

[Kuroageha]

Imagine how Aleister will go bsod if it turns everything he worked for (phases, aeon shift, etc) was a product of a lie or a half truth he thought to be an absolute truth.

[Doe, John]

While rereading NT Volume 10, I came across these lines from the High Priest regarding Aiwass:

“This is about Aiwass, that cornerstone of your plan that you went to such great lengths to raise.”
The old man’s voice contained a cruelty unfitting to his age.
Far from reaching enlightenment, desire dripped from his words like juice from a thick cut of meat.
“It’s a complete failure, young one. You’re going to be at your wits’ end before long.”

Even though the Magic Gods ended up being defeated by Aleister and others, that doesn't mean they're wrong on this.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Doe, John

While rereading NT Volume 10, I came across these lines from the High Priest regarding Aiwass:

“This is about Aiwass, that cornerstone of your plan that you went to such great lengths to raise.”
The old man’s voice contained a cruelty unfitting to his age.
Far from reaching enlightenment, desire dripped from his words like juice from a thick cut of meat.
“It’s a complete failure, young one. You’re going to be at your wits’ end before long.”

Even though the Magic Gods ended up being defeated by Aleister and others, that doesn't mean they're wrong on this.

I can't wait to see more interaction between magic-god level people and Aleister. This series still has a lot of potential and it's about to get really good with the stuff supposed to happen next in NT 21. Now that the anime will be happening in a few months, I hope the new volume really delivers since I'm really excited to see what he's going to do with everything he's set up so far, a real confrontation between science and magic.

And I'll be honest, I don't think the Magic Gods were defeated at all. I think they didn't care enough to get serious. I'm pretty sure that the Magic Gods following Hamazura around is a sign for future plot developments that'll either happen later in this arc or in the arc after this one. I expect that we never really got to see them do their thing. Do remember, if it turns out that Aleister's golden cabal was above the level that he thought they were at ... then what about these old monsters that should be even stronger than that? I mean maybe it turns out that they're not, but for now I'm hoping that they'll be major players later on when things escalate.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by dniv

I can't wait to see more interaction between magic-god level people and Aleister. This series still has a lot of potential and it's about to get really good with the stuff supposed to happen next in NT *insert number here* Now that the anime will be happening in a few months, I hope the new volume really delivers since I'm really excited to see what he's going to do with everything he's set up so far, a real confrontation between science and magic.
.

Sounds like the usual empty promises this series is used to give to readers.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Kamachi already stated Aiwass is not a benevolent being for a while now.
Hell, Aiwass didn't help Aleister because the Holy Guardian Angel is a kind and compassionate being. But because Aiwass can mock Aleister by being nice to him.
It is pointing out the good end that Aleister can never achieve by himself and then calls him stupid for his failure.

But not entirely evil either. Cruel and a dick maybe but Aiwass seems to genuinely enjoy watching people struggle for their happiness and cares for them in a warped manner while something fully malevolent like Choronzon....does not

[The One Above God]

Finally found the time to actually read this volume, and it turns out that NT21 is already complete too so i have even more to read.

That was a fantastic read. It feels like it's been so long since I last read an Index nov- no, wait, it actually has been a long time since I last read one!

Well, about the contents of the volume itself, I like the themes explored in this volume, especially about understanding that chapter 4 dealt with. Now that I think about it, "understanding", or the lack thereof, seems to be a prevalent theme towards the series and it's nice that Kamachi keeps going back to it. I also like the numerous lighthearted moments we got in this volume, most notably the Othinus moments. She's mellowed out quite a lot but maybe it's because she hasn't shown up much for the past few volumes. It's pretty sweet to see how much she and Touma trusts each other from their actions and words throughout this volume. Also, what the fuck's with that epilogue and "?" chapter??!! That was hyped! Seeing Accelerator offer a pact with that newspaper demon was pretty exciting already, but then Mathers and his bros just had to come in and raise the excitement and overall tension even further. Ah, damn, it's a good thing the next volume is already available and I csn read it in my own pace.

Overall, this was an amazing volume. The various conflicting desires, the fear, the anxiety, the excitement, the tension, the rejections and the acceptances, all of them were great and I must say, I'm glad to be able to read Index again. I might write a proper review if I find the time to read this again. Anyway, this is all I can say for now with my mind still high from the excitement of the end of the volume.

Also, 5 pages seem to be too few a pages for this volume. Then again, some may be like me who couldn't find the time to read this at their own leisure due to irl stuff. I'll try to start v21 as soon as I can.

[akuma-senpai]

with ??? are ready for this? or plank