To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 14 Discussion / Poll

[Kryn]

Im amazed how quickly calm down after all that shit

[bakato]

Kamachi shows his strength in the most down-to-earth conflicts.

[ACertainStark]

This was a walk and clash of ideals between normal high school boys you find anywhere and it was great.

Originally Posted by Ap1001

I like this conflict, they both are equally blind to their own surrounding, but have massive insight in to the other's life. The "half-full" vs "half-empty" debate is always fun, cause both are true yet equally false.

That's the best part about it. You can sit on either side here or in the middle and they personally don't realize things about themselves.

[BladeMancer]

Kamisato believes he is inadequate and is very cynical + negative, he believes that his harem was formed by his right hand and the magic gods and is seeking to liberate the harem by getting rid of the power. 'These girls who have stopped talking to me have suddenly started to love me after I got this power? It's the power they like, not me.' He doesn't consider the possibility of romance or admiration because he doesn't believe he's worthy and instead thinks of it as a cruel joke.

Kamijou however thinks of it differently. What if the girls really like Kamisato but couldn't say it? He was just selfishly putting his view of things and accepting it as a reality. He looks at things too negatively and does not look at things in a more positive light because he is afraid. Kamisato has put himself in his own Illusion that he is not deserving of such things and that it can't possibly happen to him.

Give a cookie to Kamachi

[runset]

Originally Posted by bakato

Was that spoiler about Touma losing IB and being WR'd fake? Doesn't look like he'll lose and if it actually happened there should be an illustration of something so momentous.

Anyone think Kamachi's got something big planned for December 25th in-universe?

Spoiler for spoiler for the result of the fight:

It was mentioned by kakeru in the end. He said to eren in the phone that imagine breaker is not a big deal. It was easy until after it was erased, something inside imagine breaker came out. a head light showed that kakeru condition is in a mess.

[Wandering Soul]

Kamisato really is fulfilling his role as Touma's foil. He is quite cynical but he still made some fair points. However so did Touma. Honestly you can take either side here or be neutral and you can end being both right and wrong. I was looking forward to this talk and it didn't disappoint.

[Hiss13]

A full chapter at once this time~

Let's do dis!

TL;DR…

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Oh my Niang-Niang. A lot was going on here. Let me just collect my thoughts.

First, I have to say that there is a lot of validity in Kakeru's points. While some of it developed due to a lack of maturity and experience, it's hard to deny his feelings. For example, he had already done a Beta World though experiment in his own mind and come to a different conclusion than Kamijou.

In a way, that demonstrates the difference between these two. However, something I noticed is that Kakeru stands where Kamijou stood at the beginning of Volume 1 before he met Index.

The biggest evidence to that is this.

The fault obviously lies with the weakness of his own heart.

He had been unable to rid himself of doubt because he could not trust in others.

He had settled on a pitiful definition of himself because he could not trust in himself.

We have to remember that Kamijou had also hated his power (albeit for a different reason). He despised the fact that it was useless in so many ways. That he was useless in so many ways as a mere high school boy. But in the end, he came to the realization that he could still step up and save somebody. He realized that he could still have some value. To an extent we can say that Kakeru is at the very beginning of the Kamijou Cycle. Despite the fact that he has already saved many, he is at that very beginning. The question is, "Will his path overlap with Kamijou's or will it diverge completely."

Now then, onto another thing.
Aleister. Something New Testament has been doing a lot lately is humanizing him, showing him to be more than just the guy who says keikaku doori. He has his soft spots. He has his idiosyncrasies. Even though he either stands as the amalgamation of all possibilities of humanity or as someone who has rejected his humanity, he still manages to let that show in multiple ways and even confides in Noukan.

As for Noukan...I hope these Death Flags don't come to pass.

And as for NephNeph, I'm warming up to her character.

[Kenju of the Right]

Was anyone else thinkng of this?https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdrLC3nqhw

[julioalqae]

it's great!!!, kamisato is the foil character that i hope, all of this talk and their view toward the fate of the holder and the people who affected by their fate is always interesting, like other has pointed out, kamisato trapped himself own his limitation where his view is completely opposite of touma's look on his live, where it more in negative's light.

i hope some distinctive quality between them, and this one the first step the i want to see, good job kamachi!!!

now, from this chapter, i can know that kamachi try to strengthening touma's character again in the future, i can agree with all cynical statement that kamisato blurt out but i am always more in half full's type like kamijou touma's, so i am, of course, more comfortable with touma's way of look to his live. kamachi really know how to use a trope in unique way, i always applaud that

and kamisato's harem is as ridiculously eccentric in term of fashion. it's just me or kamisato really fit our frustation toward generic MC this days?, or maybe it's just some piece of thought from kamachi himself.

[Marcus H.]

it's just me or kamisato really fit our frustation toward generic MC this days?, or maybe it's just some piece of thought from kamachi himself.

Maybe both? It's possible. He knows how abundant those kinds of MCs are.

We have to remember that Kamijou had also hated his power (albeit for a different reason). He despised the fact that it was useless in so many ways. That he was useless in so many ways as a mere high school boy. But in the end, he came to the realization that he could still step up and save somebody. He realized that he could still have some value. To an extent we can say that Kakeru is at the very beginning of the Kamijou Cycle. Despite the fact that he has already saved many, he is at that very beginning. The question is, "Will his path overlap with Kamijou's or will it diverge completely."

I guess Kamisato is a kind of Pre-Amnesia Touma?

[OH&S]

Welp, Hiss said practically everything I was thinking about this entire confrontation.

But damn that was intense.

I only have one question. If WR only appeared in December, what was that change that occurred in Kamisato at the beginning of November that he noticed and began to change his everyday life? If he didn't have WR and wasn't fighting anyone until the Magic Gods appeared, how did he manage to gather a harem of that size?

[Marcus H.]

I only have one question. If WR only appeared in December, what was that change that occurred in Kamisato at the beginning of November that he noticed and began to change his everyday life? If he didn't have WR and wasn't fighting anyone until the Magic Gods appeared, how did he manage to gather a harem of that size?

He met Laura Stuart?

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

He met Laura Stuart?

Doesn't quite answer anything but it remains a point that has been mostly overlooked up until now. Heck, it might be a potential answer.

What has Laura been up to for the past month? How did she know about Kamisato before Aleister did when it didn't seem like she knew about Kamijou beforehand?

[Marcus H.]

Doesn't quite answer anything but it remains a point that has been mostly overlooked up until now.

Kamachi has been teasing us about Laura's keikaku after all this time (i.e. by not giving any details about it), so Laura at fault is no speculation to be shrugged aside.

Hell, I'm lurking at /a/ and they're speculating that Kamisato's life was completely fabricated by Laura, down to the very members of his harem. Given how she oversaw Index's life, it's not that farfetched.

[ACertainStark]

I still have my reservations of saying Laura is directly behind Kakeru or involved outside of simple monitoring like Aleister. Though her knowing beforehand even the Magic Gods(?) is interesting in regards to what the heck she is.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Welp, Hiss said practically everything I was thinking about this entire confrontation.

But damn that was intense.

I only have one question. If WR only appeared in December, what was that change that occurred in Kamisato at the beginning of November that he noticed and began to change his everyday life? If he didn't have WR and wasn't fighting anyone until the Magic Gods appeared, how did he manage to gather a harem of that size?

He got his power in November but only learned/realized about it a few days before the volume, not that difficult to understand.

Anyways I think Kamisato needs a healthy dose of vitamin IB.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

He got his power in November but only learned/realized about it a few days before the volume, not that difficult to understand.

Is that so? That kinda contradicts what was stated in the novel:

Originally Posted by NT14

“I only received World Rejecter just the other day.”

“What?”

“I’m not exaggerating. I noticed something off around the beginning of November, but I didn’t realize it was a power residing in my body until only two or three days ago. Hunting down the Magic Gods was something like my very first battle.”

In his very first battle, he had annihilated all of the world’s Magic Gods.

The question still stands.

In fact, him getting WR in December makes more sense when you back to the reason he got it in the first place. At the beginning of November, Kamijou began focusing on Gremlin and Othinus. That began the whole process of the Magic Gods becoming jealous of all the attention Othinus was getting. Only by the end of the month after the eternal hell of NT9, the elopement to Denmark and Aleister dragging the Magic Gods out of their dimension did that jealousy reach a breaking point that resulted in WR awakening.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Is that so? That kinda contradicts what was stated in the novel:



The question still stands.

In fact, him getting WR in December makes more sense when you back to the reason he got it in the first place. At the beginning of November, Kamijou began focusing on Gremlin and Othinus. That began the whole process of the Magic Gods becoming jealous of all the attention Othinus was getting. Only by the end of the month after the eternal hell of NT9, the elopement to Denmark and Aleister dragging the Magic Gods out of their dimension did that jealousy reach a breaking point that resulted in WR awakening.

But it contradicts itself, he says he got it "the other day" but then changes to "I didn't realize it was a power residing in my body until two or three days ago", the other day could be used to describe a month ago as well as just this week, he could have in fact done whatever it is that he was doing and saved those girls without knowing about WR (while still using it mind you) until someone explained it to him, remember he is the opposite of Touma so he could in fact have been blind/dense to the fact that he was using some kind of power.

[Takeshi senpai]

Can someone compare Kamisato's harem to the strike zone of Aogami pierce? I want to see if there are any match-ups.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

But it contradicts itself, he says he got it "the other day" but then changes to "I didn't realize it was a power residing in my body until two or three days ago", the other day could be used to describe a month ago as well as just this week, he could have in fact done whatever it is that he was doing and saved those girls without knowing about WR (while still using it mind you) until someone explained it to him, remember he is the opposite of Touma so he could in fact have been blind/dense to the fact that he was using some kind of power.

Firstly, no one uses the phrase the other day to refer to something that happened a month back. That's just shaky logic there.

Secondly, assuming he did get WR in November then that contradicts even more things. The whole reason about why WR even exists is due to the Magic Gods' jealousy of Othinus and that's something that came to a head only very recently. I'm sure the Magic Gods wishes wasn't a sudden thing but something that slowly changed over the course of a month as Kamijou paid more attention to Othinus' actions. NT9/NT10 was the straw that broke the camel's back in a way.

My hypothesis is that, while the Magic Gods' jealousy grew, "power" slowly went into Kamisato's right hand. The power influenced his life in some way but still wasn't something that could be called WR. Only after Kamijou spent so much time with Othinus in NT9-NT10, the jealousy of the magic gods became so apparent that even someone like St. Germain could point it out and that power that going into Kamisato's right hand finally manifested itself as WR.