Have visual novels taken over plain ones?

[roriconfan]

Just like any other wannabe out there, I am also writing stories from time to time. And of course I hand them around to people to get feedback. The results are... bad. Really bad. Actually they are terrible.

1) One third of them don't even bother reading because they no longer can read books. They grew too accustomned to television, cinema, videogames, visual novels, and find plain text on a book boring right away.

2) Another third find them interesting but never read them to the end (well, most are long) because they are always feeling bored or have better things to do than reading a book. My writing skills may be at fault here too but I still think someone can finish even a bad book just to offer some feedback to a friend.

3) And the last third that does read them and pays attension... doesn't get them. I don't write in a "light" manner, simple stories about simple people. They are heavy on the mind. I blame points 1 & 2 to an extend, since most stories in anime, or games, or tv are now quite simple and linear (I'm a Xenogears and NGE fanboy btw). Not that this is bad; I just don't like reading or writting such stuff.

I am so disappointed with the feedback I DON'T get that I am now thinking of turning my stories into visual novels. Maybe some pictures and music can help to keep even the spoiled ones occupied. So here are some questions about them as I haven't read any VNs.

A) Is there some sort of change a text that turns from normal to visual needs to have? I noticed that most games write in a far less artistic way. Like, instead of "Suddenly the bell rings" they write is as "Sound of bell is heard".

B) Let's not stick to how the pictures will look. Am I forced to draw everyone metrosexual or like a wet dream and do I need to include sex just for fan pleasing?

C) Are VNs suppose to offer choices in interaction with the story that may change the ending or can they be left linear?

And for Pit's sake, is anyone else having trouble finding someone to read a normal book?

[oompa loompa]

Guess you need to find new people to hang out with.

While its true that people are reading less (i.e. Harry Potter is associated with the movie instead of the book ), or you ask a what books they like and they say 'oh I don't like reading ' (wtf does that even mean?!?). Its still far from being replaceable; There are so many subtle things that simply words, or language bring; its much more than just 'your imagination fills the gaps', and isn't going to be replaced all that soon.

As for people, there are plenty of people who still do just about nothing but read, because they prefer it to visual media.


( I do too tbh, except I like to take a good chunk of time out to read or start a book, i.e. at least half a day, to get into it - mind you not reading constantly, but just chillin an'readin my book )


Hmmm... this is just me; but if you're stories or books are any good, you're going to have a hard time converting it into an equally good VN, without a doubt. A good example is what the creator of Tsukihime and Kara no Kyoukai said - something along the lines of a book has to be many times more interesting than a VN to sell. Conversely, I believe, to give a good book a deserving VN is very difficult.

[Tsuyoshi]

I would say you need to show your work to different people. It's true that a lot of people are converting to visual media because it takes a lot less time to take in the info and it takes a lot less effort as well. Also, people have grown accustomed to getting info almost instantaneously, whereas it takes quite a while for someone to actually get into a book and start to like it or to understand it. Movies are much faster in that respect.

But there are a lot of people I know who still prefer to read books over watching movies or TV, myself included I daresay. The reason for that is because books yield a lot more information and subtle hints about characters that are often missed out on in adaptations onto other media. Books are a lot better in that respect, and imho, books turned into digital media, even VN, almost detroys the feeling you get from a real book that physically exists. That's why I always prefer to by them on paper rather than digitally.

As for visual novels, I honestly don't see too much of a difference there. Visual Novels do present you with pictures associated directly with the text, but you still have to read it and take the time to understand it. To make a book into a good VN, you need it to be a really good novel to begin with, one that can capture people's interests almost instantly, indeed, that is quite difficult to do with a book, but it can be done. The only thing I wouldn't like about VNs is that you can't carry them around like normal books Although they are creating portable screens you can carry around leisurely, but I still prefer paper books.

[Khu]

I hardly read books anymore...kinda saddens me, lol. Now I stick to news and TIME magazine and stuff like that. :P

In any case, yeah, you need a different group to strut your stuff. Usually your friends aren't the most reliable of raters anyway.

As for visual novels...you need a strong storyline. Any piss weak storyline will need the sex (which unfortunately is alot of vn's...:/) Take a look at Key's stuff, TYPE-MOON's too. Here's a few examples: CLANNAD, Tsukihime, Higurashi, Fate/Stay Night. Then compare it to ones that revolve around the sex mostly (a few translated and US released ones are Crescendo and Snow Sakura.)

Crescendo is okay-decent in story (ish), but that pales in comparison to the 4 named beforehand. You'll read what I mean if you look at one of each and compare - a lot of what a visual novel is is just that - a novel.

And to address A: The reason is because it's written in first person. It's also quite different from a book: you are visually looking around you, as though you were in the scene itself. A book is imagining looking into the scene, watching someone else (even in the 1st person), but it's all about the immersive experience in a visual novel.

And for all novels: if you can see it, (in your mind, or whatever), it's good. But with a VN it's if you can see it HAPPENING TO YOU.

[Vexx]

Yeah, my first response is that the OP is standing around the wrong people for anecdotal feedback. Visual novels are MORE important than they were a few decades ago ... but if they were "taking over" you'd see bookstores and Amazon in a total flip mode where manga and comics were the majority of offerings. Believe it or not, the people standing around an individual or the people they hang out with often do not reflect society as a whole. This centrist delusion seems to pervade (particularly with young people but with anyone who hasn't experienced a broad spectrum of culture/world/peoples).

That said, visual novels (aka manga) ARE very popular in the Asian country markets. But in the English "colony" markets, they're still considered subculture, kiddy, or simplistic (yes, that's false but try convincing soccer mom A that her latest Oprah-recommended emotional babble is no deeper than a story in the psychological study of Batman).

As for myself, I read very little fiction anymore ... mostly because its so difficult to find something that doesn't sound derivative of something I've read before. I've read so many thousands of books that it is REALLY hard to get interested in the latest 'popular fiction' now. Its kind of like looking for the gems in an anime genre that is 95% derivative of previous offerings: it gets tiring. I've had about 3 or 4 english language works of fiction I've read in the last couple of years that I managed to finish. OTOH, I go through non-fiction like crazy. Science, philosophy, politics, history, etc.

[relentlessflame]

(I am assuming for the sake of the discussion that you are talking about writing in English, but it wouldn't really matter if you were talking about another language.)

There's a reason why Light Novels haven't really taken off in the English-speaking world. Your typical anime fan isn't all that interested in reading (unless it's for a story they already know they love), and your average novel reader already has a ton of other choices from famous authors to draw their attention. Finding an audience in this space isn't easy.

Then again, the market for Visual Novels isn't that great either. If you're expecting to make money from your work, I wouldn't count on anything, but the lack of a large library of English content means that you may be more likely to have people (within that tiny niche of fandom) at least give your work a chance in that medium.

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A) Is there some sort of change a text that turns from normal to visual needs to have? I noticed that most games write in a far less artistic way. Like, instead of "Suddenly the bell rings" they write is as "Sound of bell is heard".

I think this may be due to poor translation more than anything else. A lot of translations weren't done by native English speakers, or edited by English speakers. And heck, a lot of those working on adapting these titles haven't actually read many English novels to start with, so you end up with sentences that are (if even accurate) literal, wooden, and certainly "less artistic". I wouldn't suggest you follow those examples...

Originally Posted by roriconfan

B) Let's not stick to how the pictures will look. Am I forced to draw everyone metrosexual or like a wet dream and do I need to include sex just for fan pleasing?

It's certain that character designs are a big part of the appeal of visual novels (they are "visual" after all), but you may be able to get away with "less-appealing" character designs if your story is interesting enough (assuming you're not banking on the "sex sells" factor, in which case character designs and art are even more important). It also depends, of course, on who your target audience is.

Originally Posted by roriconfan

C) Are VNs suppose to offer choices in interaction with the story that may change the ending or can they be left linear?

Stories that don't offer any choice/interaction are often called "kinetic novels". It's an accepted part of the medium, and there are some successful/popular works in Japan that have used this format (Planetarian, Polyphonica, etc.)


There are so many different forms of media competing for everyone's attention these days that it's always going to be hard for "new artists" to get attention. But that is, indeed, the challenge you face as a writer. Best of luck...

[MakubeX2]

Take heart here, there are still people reading physical books today. One such groups belong the Warhammer/Warhammer 40K fans.

See, the parent company has a publishing arm that pushes out printed materials (namely novels) that further expands on the already-vast background and history of the franchise.

Proceeds are apparently good enough from the books that the Publishing Division has a team of dedicated writters on their payrolls to push materials out on a monthly basis. So apparently they must be doing something right.

Besides, from what I read about the franchise, the actions described are often too extreme to be shown in anything but words as they involved head poping, dismemberment, pagan ritual borders on the Satanic, etc....

[Dhomochevsky]

You say yourself that the things you write are "heavy on the mind".
Now I don't know about other people, but I read for entertainment. This means, if reading a book feels like a chore and nothing else, then I will quit it.
The books I read aren't necessarily "light" though. Recommending my good reads to others, I often get back replies like "how could you read that, I didn't make it past the second page".
But the thing is, when I read them, they didn't feel that way. At that time they were entertaining, so I kept going and enjoyed it.
If you think of your own writing as heavy and possibly boring, maybe you should concentrate on that part first. Try to catch the reader, then carefully deliver the heavy parts in between... something like that.

To me VN are boring as hell btw. I cant understand how anyone can dedicate enough time and effort to plow through a lot of text that basicly is just a fluffy void and without any substance. Oh and tons of dialogue. Well, that's how the few VN I tried felt to me. Maybe it's a translation thing.

[-KarumA-]

You need some different people to use for your test reading then. I agree with the people read less and less books, it is becoming less and less specially for the younger generation however books will always be books and there will always be people who read it. Visual novels are still a large minority in some countries such as mine.

[0utf0xZer0]

Eh, in my experience convincing someone to play and finish a VN tends to be pretty difficult too, largely because of the large amount of text reading involved.

Most VNs I've played managed to avoid the "wall of text" effect that can turn people off by only displaying a few lines at a time, and the music and artwork did help with the immersion factor. However, most VNs tend to be pretty slow paced, so longer VNs require some perseverance on the part of the player. I've gotten a few people I know to play Ever 17: The Out of Infinity (a minor classic and what could be described as a "thinking man's bishoujo game"), and a lot of people quit after only one or two routes. Only the hardcore VN fans tend to play all five routes that are necessary to understand the story.

Furthermore, the English language VN playing community is pretty small: many gamers deride VNs as not interactive enough. And among the people who do play VNs, releases translated from Japanese tend to be far more popular than English ones. VNs that form the basis of popular anime, such as Key or Type-Moon works, are probably the most popular.

So I wouldn't convert something to a VN just to try and gain readers. That said, to answer the original questions:
A) Most visual novels are first person, and tend to concentrate on dialogue and the player character's thoughts, with minimal descriptions. Even in action scenes, the player character's thoughts tend to be fairly important.
B) Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni managed to become quite popular despite having pretty poor artwork (talking about the doujin PC original here, not the commercial PS2 version) and no sex. So it's possible, although I imagine good artwork helps you get attention.
C) As Relentless pointed out, there are VNs that don't have any branch points in the plot. And quite a few players (myself included) use walkthroughs anyway because we're more interested in the story than the interactive elements.

I also would say that if you want to understand how to make a good VN, you have to play some of the good ones.

[Master_Yoma]

Its not like I what to read books but im a slow reader a book takes me a month to read. But Manga it self take far less time to get to the end and books on tape just make me feel like an idiot.

Well who have the time to read any more with all the TV and movies that there. Games now there very little text any more you have to read thank to voices acting. But if you what people to read your stuff just see if you can some thing like kindle or the Ipad there all ways some out there who still reads

[Gin]

I don't know what a visual novel is so I'm going to answer the title question with a resounding no.

[bloppyblue]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

A) Is there some sort of change a text that turns from normal to visual needs to have? I noticed that most games write in a far less artistic way. Like, instead of "Suddenly the bell rings" they write is as "Sound of bell is heard".

B) Let's not stick to how the pictures will look. Am I forced to draw everyone metrosexual or like a wet dream and do I need to include sex just for fan pleasing?

C) Are VNs suppose to offer choices in interaction with the story that may change the ending or can they be left linear?

Art with guidelines aren't art. Do what you want.

Also, go find new people to talk to. There are plenty who read books. You're just looking at the wrong crowd xD

I personally don't read novels as often anymore due to priorities (school, musci, etc.) and my interest in art (so yes, visual novels). But it's not because theyre "boring" and such. It's that we are starting to live in an environment where we have no time for such an art. I for one still appreciate the art of writing (film director here; script is so important) but I am afraid a lot of people have lost respect for it.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by bloppyblue

I for one still appreciate the art of writing (film director here; script is so important) but I am afraid a lot of people have lost respect for it.

Script is important, however the storyboards is more important, since i notice that not everyone understands a sentence in the same way as the next person. Without visual guidance it is sometimes hard to communicate to people how you want things done.

[LMF]

Reading takes too long. Just write the novel and sell it to Hollywood then I'll download it if so.

[Jaden]

VNs are still more a format of porn than literature so I certainly don't think they're taking over

"Choose your own adventure" in VN or otherwise is just a gimmick, either way the base scenario has to be compelling or the novel won't be any good.

I love Umineko and F/SN to death but I still consider them to be in a different league than some literary classics of the fantasy genre.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by Vexx

As for myself, I read very little fiction anymore ... mostly because its so difficult to find something that doesn't sound derivative of something I've read before.

You can still compare and find the best version of anything alike.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I go through non-fiction like crazy. Science, philosophy, politics, history, etc.

Even fiction is based on reality.

[Haak]

After reading my first Visual Novel (Fate/Stay Night) I can saftely say I'd rather prefer a nice and convenient book form. I don't see the attraction.

[chikorita157]

I hardly read books nowadays, I would rather listen to them while I do something since it flows better that way. Looking at text on a page or screen isn't for me.

As for visual novels, I prefer them to reading books since it's not only about the story, but the artwork and music that helps convey the emotional feeling in the current scene. It also helps that the dialogue and narrations are only a few sentences. This way, it doesn't look so intimidating.

FYI: The only visual novels I played so far is the Key/VisualArts one, mainly Kanon and Clannad.

[Dragonar Fan]

I Read physical books to keep the tradition alive, I own Visual novels for the sake of technological improvement , & thats final