Fame and Achievement

[EscapeReality]

Would you rather do something you deem great but nobody would remember you for it or recognize your achievement (achievement), or would you rather be respected by many people but thinking that you haven't done anything remarkable (fame)?

[erneiz_hyde]

The description is a bit...I don't know, off...

Going by that description, I would choose Fame. Because if I merely think I haven't done something great, that will act as a motivator for me to keep pushing forward. While the other one feels a lot more fatalistic.

[Kotohono]

Achievement, I'd rather have done something important to myself or something that could potential change history rather than me being viewed as important by people whom I've never meant.

[Hooves]

I would also pick achievement specifically because I would rather feel accomplished myself. Then not feeling complete about my goals, but still have popularity.

I personally would prefer both though.

[monster]

Doing something that I feel is something great is a no-brainer. And while respect is a great thing to have, fame has little appeal to me.

[erneiz_hyde]

But you see, by the wording you probably CAN'T care about your fame. The crucial part is that you feel that you don't feel you have really done something great. You can't really enjoy your fame with something like that lingering in your head.

And wouldn't feeling accomplished of one's own doing feels like it will ultimately lead to a dead end? "I am satisfied of my works". That's a big stop there. and no real benchmark to what you're doing other than the one you set yourself. To put it in a very crude terms, it'd be like masturbating.

And to be quite honest, that's actually how I lived my whole life. I never push myself because I never expect too much from myself. Which is probably why I feel a certain novelty to the idea of "I haven't done enough".

I chose fame not because I like the fame, but because it comes with the premise that I can't actually enjoy it.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by EscapeReality

Would you rather do something you deem great but nobody would remember you for it or recognize your achievement (achievement), or would you rather be respected by many people but thinking that you haven't done anything remarkable (fame)?

I'd pick fame for the following reasons:

1. If my achievement is one that "nobody would remember me for it or recognize" then frankly, it probably has very little (if any) practical value (otherwise, some other people would in fact notice it). It's something that I may deem great based on my own personal interests, but it's in an area that very few people care about. The first thing I thought about was being exceptionally good at an obscure video game. Yeah, nice for a little bit of added self-esteem, I guess, but no practical value at all, really.

2. I like the odd intellectual challenge. Being respected by many people, but not really understanding why, could make for a nice intellectual challenge. In other words, I'd want to figure out just why I'm respected by many people. This could become a compelling life-long puzzle.

3. Like erneiz_hyde said, the "fame" scenario could serve as good personal motivation to try to earn that fame.

4. In this scenario, "Fame" probably has more social value than "Achievement". What I mean by that is that your Fame could open all sorts of doors to new opportunities, as people tend to like doing business with you or working together with you on some sort of project, when they already respect you.

[shisuki]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'd pick fame for the following reasons:

1. If my achievement is one that "nobody would remember me for it or recognize" then frankly, it probably has very little (if any) practical value (otherwise, some other people would in fact notice it). It's something that I may deem great based on my own personal interests, but it's in an area that very few people care about. The first thing I thought about was being exceptionally good at an obscure video game. Yeah, nice for a little bit of added self-esteem, I guess, but no practical value at all, really.

2. I like the odd intellectual challenge. Being respected by many people, but not really understanding why, could make for a nice intellectual challenge. In other words, I'd want to figure out just why I'm respected by many people. This could become a compelling life-long puzzle.

3. Like erneiz_hyde said, the "fame" scenario could serve as good personal motivation to try to earn that fame.

4. In this scenario, "Fame" probably has more social value than "Achievement". What I mean by that is that your Fame could open all sorts of doors to new opportunities, as people tend to like doing
business with you or working together with you on some sort of project, when they already respect you.

Maybe you're right ...but you can not be fame if you don't achieve some thing
so achievement is more important than fame

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

1. If my achievement is one that "nobody would remember me for it or recognize" then frankly, it probably has very little (if any) practical value (otherwise, some other people would in fact notice it). It's something that I may deem great based on my own personal interests, but it's in an area that very few people care about. The first thing I thought about was being exceptionally good at an obscure video game. Yeah, nice for a little bit of added self-esteem, I guess, but no practical value at all, really.

But you see fame is only valued to you when you're alive, what if your achievement was one of many in history that simply didn't earn you the fame until after you died, but it was still something of great practical value .

[erneiz_hyde]

Which is why I paid extra attention to the wording of the original post. I would assume that "nobody would remember you" means forever even long after I died, which was why I wasn't as attracted to the option. It really implies what Triple_R said.

On the other hand, in the fame scenario I can keep achieving something for the rest off my life even if I don't get to enjoy it.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Which is why I paid extra attention to the wording of the original post. I would assume that "nobody would remember you" means forever even long after I died, which was why I wasn't as attracted to the option. It really implies what Triple_R said.

On the other hand, in the fame scenario I can keep achieving something for the rest off my life even if I don't get to enjoy it.

I dunno I can think of an example of a very practical technological achievement, where the person is probably alive still today, and someone else receivea the fame for it.

Which brings me to my main counter point on the fame, if you couldn't figure out what you did for the fame, then wouldn't that mean mostly like stole/swindled/cheated (or other shady or unfair methods) the credit for someone's work/achievement to claim for your own, since it was fame without your work? Just that it wouldn't be widely publicly known just like in the example I have in mind.

Spoiler for Example:

Which do people remember and know view as famous the person who sold DOS to IMB, Bill gates or the person who actually made the software

Spoiler:

Tim Paterson

It's pretty clear to me which of them was the real achievement and which got the fame for it.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by shisuki

Maybe you're right ...but you can not be fame if you don't achieve some thing
so achievement is more important than fame

Generally speaking, I agree. It's just that with this specific wording, I question the objective value of the "achievement".

"Fame" could be unearned, but still innocent. I mean, consider the classic example - Paris Hilton. What has she done to deserve her fame? Nonetheless, I don't get the impression that her fame has come at the expense of somebody else gaining fame that should rightfully be his or her's.

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Which is why I paid extra attention to the wording of the original post. I would assume that "nobody would remember you" means forever even long after I died, which was why I wasn't as attracted to the option.

That's also how I took it.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

"Fame" could be unearned, but still innocent. I mean, consider the classic example - Paris Hilton. What has she done to deserve her fame? Nonetheless, I don't get the impression that her fame has come at the expense of somebody else gaining fame that should rightfully be his or her's.

She's actually kind of the example of why Fame > Achievement if you take a strictly selfish point of view. She's got her fame out of that sex tape or something (I never actually tried to look it up, unlike, presumably, half the male population of the United States or at least half the MTV viewers), which, I was told, was made by an ex-boyfriend and released without her permission.

So Miss Disinherited promptly went around using her image to create a multimillion dollar business empire with fashion lines or whatever. In a sense she *is* the most accomplished of the new generation Hiltons, despite not being part of her family's hospitality empire.

Fame is a powerful tool to achieve things with. It's a supercharged extension of the well known effect of the achievement gap -hint- between children of the privileged and children of the poor.

[Greenish Growth]

I keep thinking back to that old saying that said something to the effect:

One of the greatest forms of self sacrifice is to give up yourself up for others even when you know that no one will ever know what you did for them (especially when it's your own life on the line).

This means that potential future fame played no role in your decision to sacrifice for others.

I'll go with the achievement over fame. Fame is not important for me personally.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

Which brings me to my main counter point on the fame, if you couldn't figure out what you did for the fame, then wouldn't that mean mostly like stole/swindled/cheated (or other shady or unfair methods) the credit for someone's work/achievement to claim for your own, since it was fame without your work? Just that it wouldn't be widely publicly known just like in the example I have in mind.

Spoiler for Example:

Which do people remember and know view as famous the person who sold DOS to IMB, Bill gates or the person who actually made the software

Spoiler:

Tim Paterson

It's pretty clear to me which of them was the real achievement and which got the fame for it.

In your example, the achievement is in how the product is marketed, i.e. by licensing it to multiple vendors and ending up with an industry standard.

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Fame > Achievement if you take a strictly selfish point of view.

I tend to think of being selfish as going for your own needs/desires at the unnecessary expense of others. So seeking either fame or personal achievement is not necessarily selfish. At the same time, both are still about what one wants, so both can be sought after in a selfish way.