Macross Delta - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Psyco Diver

It's been like a decade since I watched Macross but didn't that live triangle develop the same way?

Not at all.

Spoiler for SDFM ramblings:

First off, during the first ten episodes Misa had a character arc which fleshed out her character and backstory and made her useful and vital part of the crew. Secondly, Minmay only saw Hikaru as a friend until she got depressed and disillusioned with her career (and used him as emotional crutch, their relationship amounted to this: Minmay wanting to return to the easy past, Hikaru finally living his fantasy to have her attention): she had a relationship with her cousin Kaifun (who was also the center of Misa's affections because of his supposed resemblance with her dead fiancee, Riber). Hikaru was obsessed tailing after Minmay despite the fact he wasn't more than a friend to her, regardless of this, the two of them never really communicated (he never got her a birthday present for example, and gave her his medal pretending it was the gift all along - this is contrasting with Hayate who cared so much about Freyja's birthday which wanted his present to be the best). Minmay in the end demanded Hikaru to quit flying so they can go back to what they 'used to be', it was an incompatibility of their careers here and Hikaru's realization about this (he realized it sooner but when they forced them to extend the triangle, he became obnoxious and stupid).

I'll say that original Macross was the anti Macross Delta in how they handled things, for better or worse. Original Macross triangle was also far more complex (and also my favorite). Original Macross portrays how Minmay and Hikaru drift away more and more, and are unable to properly communicate (while Misa and Hikaru begin to grow closer, specially because they were losing their triangles with Kaifun and Minmay, and their experiences shared). While circumstances aren't playing on their favor, the fundamental problem is that they never quite understood each other; Hikaru assumed her flirtatious nature meant she had romantic feelings for him and Minmay just saw him as a friend, and there are signs they are both fed up with their respective lifestyles as pilot/idol. I'll say Delta is the complete opposite, because so far the show is portraying that Hayate and Freyja have a perfect understanding and supportive of each other's aspirations and dreams, so they put a lot of external obstacles they are working to overcome (the dad bombing, the lifespan, now their failure when their resonance), so yeah... I see it rather the opposite of that triangle. And Mirage doesn't have an opening like Misa did (nor her development...), but at least Hayate's feelings are more ambiguous unlike Hikaru's. Kaifun allowed Misa and Hikaru grow closer, sharing the woes of fellow losers in love, and put more distance between Minmay and Hikaru, but there's no Kaifun in Macross Delta.

[Father Hentai]

With 10 episodes more to produce you have more chance go into more detail. How about if delta had the option to air 36 episodes, maybe the triangle would have more chance to be more detailed?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

With 10 episodes more to produce you have more chance go into more detail. How about if delta had the option to air 36 episodes, maybe the triangle would have more chance to be more detailed?

SDFM went to 36 episodes and more thoroughly nailed down the love triangle as a result, but there was already a decent outcome during Episode 27. The extra nine episodes had a lot of padding and required Hikaru to turn into a blithering idiot to stretch things out.

Still, there were some good spots there such as the Misa/Claudia bonding episode, so I wouldn't can all of them. Maybe SDFM could be trimmed to 32 episodes and work out—though much of that is to include things such as the aforementioned Misa and Claudia, as well as the Max and Milia baby episode, but not the extended Minmay/Hikaru/Misa antics, or at least less of it.

Ten more episodes of Delta would more than make up for the time lost to showing concerts in many of the episodes, and yes, it probably would help with the character arcs. But Delta is more of worldbuilding show than a character drama; I'd have been equally as happy if extra episodes went to explaining all the things that people mention appearing in the external tie-in media.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

With 10 episodes more to produce you have more chance go into more detail. How about if delta had the option to air 36 episodes, maybe the triangle would have more chance to be more detailed?

Doubt it because Kawamori called it a "faint love triangle" since the beginning. The show is hardly supposed to be about a love triangle. No matter how many episodes would original Macross have, the fundamental problem with Minmay/Hikaru relationship (aside that she was never in love with him ) was that they never really understood each other. It actually ended in episode 27, when Hikaru realized they couldn't be together (and Minmay realizes Hikaru likes her romantically ouch - They just extended it, but that was meant to be the ending). Same problem with Ranka and Alto, actually, they couldn't understand each other (they needed Sheryl to communicate in the end).

I'm not really bringing up Macross Delta, but I'm pointing out how was in those triangles as contrast (Macross Zero is hard to bring up because Mao was a child ).

[Father Hentai]

But again. It's 10 episodes more where more detail could have been given to the characters OR the plots.

[Thess]

You're still not understanding, SDFM Macross ended officially in episode 27. The rest was forced by the Network which made the characters act completely obnoxious, specially Hikaru, to get a soap opera ongoing. The official novelization ignores it. Formal ending to Macross is Minmay sings and the war ends. That's it. By episode 27, Misa, Minmay and Hikaru were fleshed out characters. They didn't need anything additional (it almost ruined them to me). The best scenes post war were with Max and Milia and other support cast, IMO.

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

Ten more episodes of Delta would more than make up for the time lost to showing concerts in many of the episodes, and yes, it probably would help with the character arcs. But Delta is more of worldbuilding show than a character drama; I'd have been equally as happy if extra episodes went to explaining all the things that people mention appearing in the external tie-in media.

I agree, what Delta needs is more episodes to flesh out the world building, not the triangle. Because every other Delta-related media shows more interesting stuff than the one that features in the anime. It's frankly disappointing.

[Father Hentai]

That's your opinion. Mine is still that it's 10 episode more where additional or wasted information has been added to SDF Macross. This 10 more episode can or cannot give delta the same option.

[FlamingMangos]

When will Hayate start dancing again? I liked how that made him unique as a pilot but now, he never ever dances anymore. Also, does anyone notice Hayate copying some of Freyja's phases such as giri giri?

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

When will Hayate start dancing again? I liked how that made him unique as a pilot but now, he never ever dances anymore. Also, does anyone notice Hayate copying some of Freyja's phases such as giri giri?

Wasn't it gori gori...

[Thess]

Hayate stopped dancing after he made his first kill. He'll probably dance again after the war ends or to end the war.

[Triple_R]

Might be good to bring back dancing Hayate if he has to make due without Freyja power-ups.

As for the time allotment question - I think 26 episodes is probably fine for Delta in most respects. Really, I think they've handled most of the cast reasonably well. I'm very happy with Hayate and Freyja, I'm pretty happy with Arad and Walkure's initial 4 members, I think Messer and Johnson have been handled well (Messer's arc was excellent), and even the Windermere side of things has been very solid in recent episodes. Chuck is kinda just there, but he's not a problem, he's Ok for what he is. Characterization-wise, Mirage is the only significant disappointment, in my view.

As for the show's plotting/storytelling, that has been consistently very good to excellent, in my view. It feels well-paced for a 2-core story, and major hints/reveals come at a sure and steady pace.

[Psyco Diver]

Originally Posted by Thess

Not at all.

Spoiler for SDFM ramblings:

First off, during the first ten episodes Misa had a character arc which fleshed out her character and backstory and made her useful and vital part of the crew. Secondly, Minmay only saw Hikaru as a friend until she got depressed and disillusioned with her career (and used him as emotional crutch, their relationship amounted to this: Minmay wanting to return to the easy past, Hikaru finally living his fantasy to have her attention): she had a relationship with her cousin Kaifun (who was also the center of Misa's affections because of his supposed resemblance with her dead fiancee, Riber). Hikaru was obsessed tailing after Minmay despite the fact he wasn't more than a friend to her, regardless of this, the two of them never really communicated (he never got her a birthday present for example, and gave her his medal pretending it was the gift all along - this is contrasting with Hayate who cared so much about Freyja's birthday which wanted his present to be the best). Minmay in the end demanded Hikaru to quit flying so they can go back to what they 'used to be', it was an incompatibility of their careers here and Hikaru's realization about this (he realized it sooner but when they forced them to extend the triangle, he became obnoxious and stupid).

I'll say that original Macross was the anti Macross Delta in how they handled things, for better or worse. Original Macross triangle was also far more complex (and also my favorite). Original Macross portrays how Minmay and Hikaru drift away more and more, and are unable to properly communicate (while Misa and Hikaru begin to grow closer, specially because they were losing their triangles with Kaifun and Minmay, and their experiences shared). While circumstances aren't playing on their favor, the fundamental problem is that they never quite understood each other; Hikaru assumed her flirtatious nature meant she had romantic feelings for him and Minmay just saw him as a friend, and there are signs they are both fed up with their respective lifestyles as pilot/idol. I'll say Delta is the complete opposite, because so far the show is portraying that Hayate and Freyja have a perfect understanding and supportive of each other's aspirations and dreams, so they put a lot of external obstacles they are working to overcome (the dad bombing, the lifespan, now their failure when their resonance), so yeah... I see it rather the opposite of that triangle. And Mirage doesn't have an opening like Misa did (nor her development...), but at least Hayate's feelings are more ambiguous unlike Hikaru's. Kaifun allowed Misa and Hikaru grow closer, sharing the woes of fellow losers in love, and put more distance between Minmay and Hikaru, but there's no Kaifun in Macross Delta.

Thanks, so many forgotten memories flooded back to me, I forgot the whole cousin angle, I need to watch Macross again because it has obviously been to long

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Psyco Diver

Thanks, so many forgotten memories flooded back to me, I forgot the whole cousin angle, I need to watch Macross again because it has obviously been to long

I re-watch the original at least once a year. Some parts are embarrassing and didn't age well but others are timeless.

[FlamingMangos]

Previews for episode 19 seems to be out already.

[Random14]

Originally Posted by Psyco Diver

Thanks, so many forgotten memories flooded back to me, I forgot the whole cousin angle, I need to watch Macross again because it has obviously been to long

Just to mention, the entire Macross series (and even Southern Cross and Mospeada) is streaming on Amazon Prime now. Been watching through it again, and still love it. Unlike Delta, the triangle was actually noticeable.

It doesn't help that Hayate is on the dense side of the protagonist scale, but thankfully he's nowhere near as bad as some harem protagonists. With things getting closer to the climax, that means even more Mikumo and Freyja time, and even less possible screen time for Mirage.