High School DxD Light Novel - DX.4 (Volume 23.5)

[Royalknightftw]

Originally Posted by Darksider555

My problem is that Saji was able to fight CCQ Ise on par. Even though Ise is weakened, Saji shouldn't have been outmatched in pure power since his armor is powered by a Dragon King while Ise's is powered by a Heavenly Dragon. Even with in his regular BxB, Ise should have the edge in raw power, or at least physical power where he is concerned. But Saji was able to match him with just his punches. Not punches enhanced with black fire or line feints & attacks. If this fight was meant to be the highlight of the Vol, it failed. Not every fight should be a recreation of Sairaorg vs Ise because every fighter has their unique style of fighting.

Issei freaking bombarded the entire area so that it could shape how Ravel wanted. Could you imagine how much stamina he spent to do that? Saji's BB didn't really outmach Issei's weakened CxC. He was just really hard to be put down by Issei due to his willpower

[DragonOsman]

Saji was already doing down earlier; that's why his sister had to cheer him on to make him continue.

@Lucidrago: Like Fan said, Vritra mentioned that Saji can only learn to use and master more of his abilities than he knows how to use right now through battle experience. And from what we saw, so far, he can only use the other two abilities in Dragon King mode. He can use them in his normal Balance Breaker.

And, again, you completely misinterpret what the "types" here mean. It's not like a Power-type can't use technique or that a Technique-type can't use power, and etc.. Each of the four "types" actually bleeds into the others. At the end of the day, the four "types" are just broad categories that the Rating Games use to determine a person's fighting style. For example, Sirzechs may have high amounts of power which makes him a Super Devil (and I think his power-level is on par with Ddraig and Albion in their prime (individually, not both put together)), that he just chooses to use in a Technique-like way. It's the same with Apophis who is a Technique-type but has power on par with Ddraig and Albion (Heavenly Dragon-class). And as stated here already, despite the bad compatibility, Ise managed to defeat Apophis.

@Royalknight: Ise bombarded only half the field in this match, though. Not the whole field.

[Lucidrago]

The two other Sacred Gear abilities have never been shown. All we've seen is Absorption Line and Blaze Black Flare.

Saji should be training every day and has gotten lots of combat experience. And as a member of the Sitri group, you think he isn't training all of his abilities? Come up with a legitimate reason why Saji can't use all of Vritra's abilities in the fifth arc after training constantly and gaining a lot of combat experience? I see this a gaff on Ishibumi's part. And I have no idea what @fan is even talking about.

@Osman You always act as when I call someone a certain type I'm saying that they are no other type. I know power-types can use technique. But when I say that, I'm calling them out on which type they're best at and stand out the most in. Yes all of them bleed into one another but everyone has one they're the best in. As you've seen, Issei and Xenovia are best at overwhelming their opponents with huge firepower. That is their main forte. Yes they can use technique, but being power-types is what they're best at and they're going to fall back on that more often than not.

[fan]

@Lucidrago go back and read my post. It is above yours and under @Palmito. Saji using training is pointless no matter how hard he trains or gets told how to use those abilities the result is the same. Vritra abilities can't be learned only used and one needs a high level of focus to use All of them. No one can help him and saji used all four abilities in volume 7 and 9.

[DragonOsman]

@fan: Use [*quote] and [/*quote] tags (without the "*" things) the next time you want to quote a member on here or something from the novels. And try to find the quotes where Saji uses those moves. Thanks.

@Lucidrago: You don't seem to get it. The "types" themselves bleed into each other. That's what I meant to say.

[fan]

@ Osman not really sure how typing from a phone

[Darksider555]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

The two other Sacred Gear abilities have never been shown. All we've seen is Absorption Line and Blaze Black Flare.

Saji should be training every day and has gotten lots of combat experience. And as a member of the Sitri group, you think he isn't training all of his abilities? Come up with a legitimate reason why Saji can't use all of Vritra's abilities in the fifth arc after training constantly and gaining a lot of combat experience? I see this a gaff on Ishibumi's part. And I have no idea what @fan is even talking about.

@Osman You always act as when I call someone a certain type I'm saying that they are no other type. I know power-types can use technique. But when I say that, I'm calling them out on which type they're best at and stand out the most in. Yes all of them bleed into one another but everyone has one they're the best in. As you've seen, Issei and Xenovia are best at overwhelming their opponents with huge firepower. That is their main forte. Yes they can use technique, but being power-types is what they're best at and they're going to fall back on that more often than not.

Next is Saji. He is making the enemies bathe inside the black flames which is hard to de-curse, the Blaze Black Flare.

“Just stay there all together!”

He covers several magicians with a wall of black flames! Yeah, the black flames appear from every direction, and stop the magicians like a wall that surrounds them. The activation requirement will be fulfilled when they come within Saji’s range, and wall of flame appears around the place enemies are standing.

One of the Vritra-type Sacred Gear, [Shadow Prison]—.

Vritra’s curse of fire swirls inside it, and they will have their movement sealed. And it makes those who have been captured suffer gradually by the fire’s heat—. On top of that the [Delete Field] will be added onto it, and they will have their magical-power taken away.

Once you get captured within that prison, you will continue to be captured until all of your power gets taken away—.

Saji also sends many lines, and connects them to the magicians!

“I will transform all of your magical-powers into demonic-powers!”

Yeah, Saji’s original ability will play a big role in this. He originally connected the [Absorption Line] to his enemy, and absorbed their powers away. He even absorbed their blood—

There are already more than ten lines. The magical-powers flow into Saji through the lines!

“Shit!”

“Something like this!”

The magicians try to cut the line attached to them with magic, but it didn’t have any effect. His line is tough after all. You won’t be able to cut it so easily!

Then the black flame passes through the lines and attacks the magicians!

……So you will be out of options once you get caught by Saji, huh. The line and the prison, if you don’t have the strength to slip out of it, then you are completely sealed. On top of these abilities he still can transform into a Dragon-King……

He really is getting powerful as a technique-type, that guy Saji!

Saji did use them for a bit but since we rarely see him fight we just mostly see him use his lines or black flames.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Darksider555

Saji did use them for a bit but since we rarely see him fight we just mostly see him use his lines or black flames.

Thanks I totally missed that. Now I'm just wondering how hard it was for Ishibumi to have Saji fight as a technique-type. Just having him go for a straight-up fistfight.

It's like lately Ishibumi has been having trouble having Issei fight with anyone that's not a power-type.

[Darksider555]

That also frustrates me a lot. Both Dulio & Saji are not pure power fighters. Dulio is wizard type who spams his weather manipulation powers. I could accept him using a bit of H2H if Ise rushes him but he would try to avoid that as Ise is much better in that field.
As for Saji, while does wear Dragon Armor, it's the fact that Ishi forgot all of Saji unique abilities and just had him rush Ise. Who should be much stronger in pure power than Saji.

I wonder if Delete Field is really OP as it can supress an enemies power. I wonder if it's effect is slow and it becomes more effective when used with his lines?

[fan]

@darksider555 you don't need pure power in H2H. H2H wasn't created for power types. It was created for those who want to learn even if you have no talent for it

[Femt0]

@Darksider On paper delete field sounds op but i kind of see it like this, other moves that look op but are overcame by simple power for example that time that Fenrir broke free from half dimension or time stop or when compression divider didn't work on Croms flames or when Sacred Gear Canceller didn't work on Issei. to me those op abilities are as strong as the user is,(hax moves are another thing). everytime i see this pop up in series when a op move or ability is overcome by simple power it reminds me of Aizen fighting the other captains. where he said something along the lines of "a battle between shinigamis it's a battle of reiatsu i can simply overcome your ability my simple releasing it".

[Lucidrago]

Well the ones overcoming those abilities you listed are stronger than almost every god.

[DragonOsman]

@Fan: Those who fight using hand-to-hand combat skills are those that are direct-attack types. That's basically a Power-type. Some Power-types lean towards Support and/or Technique to some extent, but yeah.

@Darksider: Actually, dragons being masses of power and Ddraig saying before that those with armor-type Balance Breakers being the type that like using their bodies to fight directly, means that Saji doubles as a Power-type in Balance Breaker--and it also means that everyone that's either a dragon or has dragon powers also doubles as a Power-type even if he/she is primarily a different type other than Power.

In Volume 5, Life 4, Azazel told Ise that he has to find a way to deal with Technique-types that can counter his attacks. And we've seen throughout the novels that, after that point especially, Ise has been really conscious of trying to do just that and he's managed to find ways to do so as well.

[Lucidrago]

Yet still struggles against the members of the Sitri group.

Saji stands absolutely no chance against Issei in a pure power contest. Yes he has an armor-type Balance Breaker and fights his opponent up front but fighting Issei largely just trying to rely on pure power is absolutely ridiculous.

From the Student Council short story in DX3 where Issei ends up sparring with the members of the Sitri group who just got their artificial Sacred Gears, we saw how even Yura, Sona's rook, was giving him trouble with the way she uses her martial arts. Because despite being a rook, she's a technique-type.

Now Saji fighting hand-to-hand is no problem. But isn't Vritra known more for his versatility using his abilities rather than pure power? And plus he's a member of the Sitri group where he would automatically train as a technique-type. This is Sona we're talking about.

Just being a dragon doesn't give Ishibumi an excuse to make Saji a power-type like Issei and Sairaorg.


And Cao Cao either used True Longinus' original Balance Breaker(that's if he ever achieved the original Balance Breaker). Or turned the ability of that 7th orb into boosting power. Like the Boosted Gear where it increases Cao Cao's stats by a certain amount. But it ends up taking up a lot of stamina.

[fan]

@Lucidrago you only blame the author but he only writes the story his editor approved of this. He has other people helping him when he can't think of anything. The author could of wanted to write issei vs saji using power vs technique but some one found it to be boring

[DragonOsman]

@Lucidrago: He has trouble with the Sitri peerage, but it's not like he has no way to counter the counter-type Technique-types. Azazel told him to do it, and I think he managed to do it by now since that was back in Volume 5 and we're going to start Shin now which is after Volume 25. 21 Volumes later. Ise and the others are always training and improving, so why would you think Ise would stagnate or that his stats would be static? You remember when we talked rated his Rating Game "type" stats in a numeric system? I'm sure his Technique stat value was lower back then compared to where we rated it to be when we talked about it on this forum. In other words, he raised it.

As for Cao Cao's Balance Breaker. He could've used the same Balance Breaker except that he chose to increase his own stats rather than bringing the orbs out. We'll have to wait until we read the actual book to see what he did.

[Le Fay]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Yet still struggles against the members of the Sitri group.

Saji stands absolutely no chance against Issei in a pure power contest. Yes he has an armor-type Balance Breaker and fights his opponent up front but fighting Issei largely just trying to rely on pure power is absolutely ridiculous.

From the Student Council short story in DX3 where Issei ends up sparring with the members of the Sitri group who just got their artificial Sacred Gears, we saw how even Yura, Sona's rook, was giving him trouble with the way she uses her martial arts. Because despite being a rook, she's a technique-type.

Now Saji fighting hand-to-hand is no problem. But isn't Vritra known more for his versatility using his abilities rather than pure power? And plus he's a member of the Sitri group where he would automatically train as a technique-type. This is Sona we're talking about.

Just being a dragon doesn't give Ishibumi an excuse to make Saji a power-type like Issei and Sairaorg.


And Cao Cao either used True Longinus' original Balance Breaker(that's if he ever achieved the original Balance Breaker). Or turned the ability of that 7th orb into boosting power. Like the Boosted Gear where it increases Cao Cao's stats by a certain amount. But it ends up taking up a lot of stamina.

He didn't use TL's original BxB and he didn't use 7th orb to boost his power. He didn't summon Seven Treasures at all to use spare energy to increase attack power with holy aura.

[Lucidrago]

I just wondering what Ishibumi has been doing lately. First Dulio and now Cao Cao. He seems to be a fan of power boosts. But how holy energy boosts your physical stats I will never know.

[DragonOsman]

We've seen Holy Sword wielders increase their attack power by raising the holy aura on the sword. This is the same thing, except the weapon is the holy spear.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

We've seen Holy Sword wielders increase their attack power by raising the holy aura on the sword. This is the same thing, except the weapon is the holy spear.

releasing more holy aura to increase the attack power of your weapon is one thing. Increasing your physical stats is another thing.