Shin High School DxD Volume 3 Discussion

[godz]

Don't worry, Ichie will find a way to make Vali stronger than Issei.

[Ka-el]

We already know how considering EX. The one thing Vali always refused to do despite his immense talent with that field because of his pride as hakuryukou and lucifer.

[Djeveler]

Originally Posted by XFire

Vali spends the battle trying to control the spacing between him and Crom, and failing as Crom is able to keep up constant pressure. He uses CD to try and slow Crom down -> Crom powers through it. He tries to use his speed advantage -> Crom cross counters him. And so on for pretty much the whole fight we're witness to. And at the end Vali drops to the ground wheezing from exertion while Crom is still just standing around.

Crom never even bothers to defend against Vali, just face tanking everything. He fails to defend against Ddraig at least twice.

It's not like Vali was helpless or anything, but he was clearly punching uphill while Ddraig was at least confronting him on an even playing field.

Wat? You're completely misrepresenting the battle here.

First of all, Vali never used CD on Crom directly, he only used it on one of his flame breath attacks, and CD was completely successful in suppressing it, so your point about Crom "powering through" CD is not just imprecise, but straight up wrong. And Vali wheezing from exhaustion? He was mentioned to have his chest heave once, and didn't have any problem standing up or going to Crom for a handshake. He was tired but he was not nearly as exhausted as you seem to imply, lol.

Crom facetanked Vali's attacks explicitly because they are way too fast for him to see them, this is straight up mentioned so that's a completely dead point for you, as much as the CD one.

Vali was not punching uphill for going with his specialty (mentioned to be his blasts and also making use of his speed advantage) instead of fighting Crom at his particular specialty (close quarters as he was mentioned to be stronger in physical strength and defense). If Vali was fighting from an inferior position then how come several more of his attacks landed than what Crom managed?

Originally Posted by XFire

Because they failed to even slow him down? Crom just broke through everything without stopping. Penetrate let Ddraig straight up breakthrough Crom's flames.

Crom never even tried to block Vali. The punches you could excuse (he was going for a counter), but he just sat there and face tanked the aura blast (the one Vali actually had to charge) and didn't even raise his hands.

Vali's abilities didn't "fail to even slow him down" and Crom didn't "break through everything without stopping". This is straight up not true to the fight. Crom manages to power through the Half Dimension of one wyvern, then two, but he eventually got explicitly slowed down, and after that he was having so much difficulty with merely moving that he grit his teeth in exertion until they drew blood. You really should re-read the fight as your misrepresentation of it is getting out of hand.

And once again, as mentioned before, the reason Crom wasn't blocking anything is because Vali's attacks were too fast for him to even see, lol. Several times he has blocked inferior attacks such as those from the likes of CxC, so saying he was not blocking DxD L because he didn't see fit is nonsensical (let alone the fact that an explanation was given or at least implied).

Originally Posted by XFire

Also compatibility means shite to Crom at this point. He got shot in the face with his historical weakness and didn't seem to particularly care.

Just a side note, but historical weakness? If you mean Tathlum, that's not Crom's historical weakness, not even in DxD. Beyond mentioning that the thing he was hit by was just a replica (which he stopped, not the same as receiving the shot directly), it was only mentioned to possibly be an effective thing on him, not a "weakness". If it's a weakness of anything whatsoever it would be of Balor, not of Crom.

[Hakai]

It's nice to see this place so lively again

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Hakai

It's nice to see this place so lively again

Agreed been dead for a minute

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by XFire

Because they failed to even slow him down? Crom just broke through everything without stopping. Penetrate let Ddraig straight up breakthrough Crom's flames.

Crom never even tried to block Vali. The punches you could excuse (he was going for a counter), but he just sat there and face tanked the aura blast (the one Vali actually had to charge) and didn't even raise his hands.

How is that any different than Crom's fight with Ddraig? Vali successfully nullified Crom's flames with Satan Compression Divider. And had his Wyverns use Half Dimension that even slowed down Crom.

He had no choice but to take Vali's attacks. While the power of his attacks is no where close to Crom Cruach, his attacks are still able to damage him and Crom Cruach stated that he couldn't block or evade Vali's aura because it was too fast for him to even see.

Crom blocked all of Ddraig's attacks. And Ddraig only overpowered his flame breath with his own when he added Penetrate to it. And he was able to add Penetrate to his shots where Crom was still taking damage even though he blocked them.

So both Vali and Ddraig overpowered or nullified his flames. And both were inflicting damage on Crom Cruach. Vali through firing shots of his aura at Crom Cruach so fast that Crom Cruach couldn't even block or evade them. And Ddraig by infusing Penetrate in his attacks otherwise Crom would just deflect his attacks or overpower them with his own.

In what way did Ddraig do better than Vali? Vali and Crom Cruach were pretty much even in that fight. They both surpass each other in certain areas, but they were overall even in their fight.

You're trying to make it look like a one-sided fight which it wasn't. You either misinterpreted the fight or you want to believe that Crom Cruach is much stronger than Vali that you're not overexaggerating certain parts of that fight and omitting others to make Crom Cruach seem more powerful than he actually is or Vali much weaker.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Wat? You're completely misrepresenting the battle here.

Oh, that'll be good....

Originally Posted by Djeveler

First of all, Vali never used CD on Crom directly, he only used it on one of his flame breath attacks, and CD was completely successful in suppressing it, so your point about Crom "powering through" CD is not just imprecise, but straight up wrong. And Vali wheezing from exhaustion? He was mentioned to have his chest heave once, and didn't have any problem standing up or going to Crom for a handshake. He was tired but he was not nearly as exhausted as you seem to imply, lol.

Meant Half-dimension, so that's my bad.

But Vali was on the ground exhausted while Crom was just standing there.

Also if your chest heaves once that's called a spasm, please call a doctor for Vali.

Incidentally? CD failed to suppress the flame attack. He had to use Satan CD to nullify it if you want to get pedantic about names.

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Crom facetanked Vali's attacks explicitly because they are way too fast for him to see them, this is straight up mentioned so that's a completely dead point for you, as much as the CD one.

Except for the part where the narrative explicitly says he had no intention to dodge, and then he deliberately charges face first into a giant aura blast. He never made even an attempt at blocking.

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Vali was not punching uphill for going with his specialty (mentioned to be his blasts and also making use of his speed advantage) instead of fighting Crom at his particular specialty (close quarters as he was mentioned to be stronger in physical strength and defense). If Vali was fighting from an inferior position then how come several more of his attacks landed than what Crom managed?

He was punching up hill because he was constantly on the defensive and was completely unable to control the flow of battle despite being faster. Every time he launched an attack he'd get countered for significantly more damage than he was dealing out and he blatantly came out worse off at the end.

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Vali's abilities didn't "fail to even slow him down" and Crom didn't "break through everything without stopping". This is straight up not true to the fight. Crom manages to power through the Half Dimension of one wyvern, then two, but he eventually got explicitly slowed down, and after that he was having so much difficulty with merely moving that he grit his teeth in exertion until they drew blood. You really should re-read the fight as your misrepresentation of it is getting out of hand.

One wyvern explicitly didn't slow him down, so Vali sent all of them, which still didnt slow him down enough for Vali to escape. Vali, who is faster than him. Yes, clearly this ability had a dramatic and noticeable effect on his speed.

Lol.

Originally Posted by Djeveler

And once again, as mentioned before, the reason Crom wasn't blocking anything is because Vali's attacks were too fast for him to even see, lol. Several times he has blocked inferior attacks such as those from the likes of CxC, so saying he was not blocking DxD L because he didn't see fit is nonsensical (let alone the fact that an explanation was given or at least implied).

Except, again, the narrative states he had zero intention to dodge and just charges directly into Vali's fire. He was moving in a straight line, all he had to do was raise his arms, dude.

Originally Posted by Djeveler

Just a side note, but historical weakness? If you mean Tathlum, that's not Crom's historical weakness, not even in DxD. Beyond mentioning that the thing he was hit by was just a replica (which he stopped, not the same as receiving the shot directly), it was only mentioned to possibly be an effective thing on him, not a "weakness". If it's a weakness of anything whatsoever it would be of Balor, not of Crom.

Crom literally says it would have taken out the old him.

And he stopped it by fucking biting the bullet, if that counts as stopping it so does blocking with your stomach

@Lucidrago: I see your post, but it's basically a less coherent version of Djevelers so this counts as a response to yours as well. Also I think he has grounds to sue you for plagiarism now lol

[XFire]

And I can already tell we're getting set up for another lovely round of circular arguing where everyone repeats themselves for five pages till one of us gets bored, so....let's not do that.

My statement and view of the fights stand, and I'm sure neither of you have changed you mind either.

Let's leave it at that for now.









We're not going to get a clear answer till Issei beats Vali in the tournament anyway.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by XFire

And I can already tell we're getting set up for another lovely round of circular arguing where everyone repeats themselves for five pages till one of us gets bored, so....let's not do that.

My statement and view of the fights stand, and I'm sure neither of you have changed you mind either.

Let's leave it at that for now.









We're not going to get a clear answer till Issei beats Vali in the tournament anyway.

You're the one twisting facts. Vali and Crom Cruach are equal. And Vali did no better or worse than Ddraig did.

Leave it at that and abandon your headcanon.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

You're the one twisting facts. Vali and Crom Cruach are equal. And Vali did no better or worse than Ddraig did.

Leave it at that and abandon your headcanon.

You quoted a post saying that I was done arguing and your first words are "you're the ones twisting facts"

I didn't say that there or in any of my other posts on this thread, so maybe pull your head out of your persecution complex.

We disagree on this topic and have stated why (well, Djeveler and I stated why, you copy-pasta'd him. Participating!) It's not going to change.

And you copying my line unironically does not do any favors for that dirth of creativity you're running through.

P.S. crazy fan theorist who writes fan fiction to pass off as prediction doesnt get to talk about "headcanon"

[godz]

I don't know what to discuss, if ichiei would look for a way to make vali stronger than issei ... He has done so from the beginning.

[XFire]

If you mean a power boost for Vali, there's always the option of some kind of trial or something. Issei got the Amirita so have Vali go do...I dunno, some form of the Twelve Labors as training.

[Hakai]

Vali gonna meet the original Lucifer's spirit and receive Chakra demonic power from him.

[Ka-el]

Originally Posted by XFire

If you mean a power boost for Vali, there's always the option of some kind of trial or something. Issei got the Amirita so have Vali go do...I dunno, some form of the Twelve Labors as training.

Considering EX it’s clear what he has to do.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Ka-el

Considering EX it’s clear what he has to do.

I guess I'm not remembering EX that well, did it mention a boost for Vali?

Or do you mean "get laid"?

[The Infinite Dream]

Thought the only thing that was mentioned about him besides being Exs trainer was he did research on the old gods era and ate ramen...

[TommyG]

I wonder if the rainbow coloured twin dragons are going to have any significant bearing in the story?

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Elmenhilde Lover

Spoiler for Le Spoils:

The Spectre dragon egg hatched. It's twins! And due to Ophis' influence they wrap their necks around each other and put their tails in their mouths to make the infinity symbol. They have rainbow scales.

Issei's ship Ryuuteimaru is at Grigori inside a cocoon and is becoming smaller. Ophis said she can feel her's, Issei's and Great Red's auras coming from it. Ophis also says Ryuuteimaru is a manifestation of the answer to Great Red's power. Seekvaira also mentions that Ryuuteimaru has like a cavity that can fit one person.

Ophis says DxD G is Issei's final form, but combining it with Great Red's power will make it different.

Spoiler for Spoilers:

Female twins? Lol that is what issei needs in his harem. Female dragon twins that he perform a Hikaru Genki plan on

[Ka-el]

Originally Posted by XFire

I guess I'm not remembering EX that well, did it mention a boost for Vali?

Or do you mean "get laid"?

He is the first archmage devil.

I remind you different times it was told he is a genius about magic (he read a spell book about Norse Magic one afternoon and that was enough for him to counter Loki's spells) but he always refused to use it out of his pride as hakuryukou and lucifer, preferring power over magic. Imagine if he trained seriously with magic what power could he have.

[The Infinite Dream]

When did it say he was an archmage devil? The only thing that i remember was stated was that he trained Ex, loves ramen, and studys the old gods era.

Just went back a looked this is the only thing i can find when they talk about Vali.

Yes, Shihan[38] Yuuto-san becomes our mentor. Vali-sensei excavated ancient relics from the Old Gods era as well as the original Yondai Maous, studying ruins and artifacts while became obsessed with ramen. The first six months when I became his apprentice, I was ordered to wash the dish every day. Fighting and making ramen are basically the same for him.”