(L+CR) Lord El Melloi II Case Files - Anime Discussion

[belatkuro]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Adashino is a fairly gorgeous Japanese beauty and an interesting foil for Waver as pretty much the de-facto "law enforcement" figure in the case in contrast to his Sherlock Holmes-esque detective role. Also kind of makes me wonder what it is that makes the two seemingly not get along as well .

The Policies Department are sort of heretics in the Clock Tower. They don't share the same desire as most mages to pursue the Root. Instead they only want to maintain the stability of the Clock Tower. Hence her appearing here since the issue is a workshop that is disputed by several families and causes trouble in different ways.

She and Waver are the same yet different. She doesn't pursue the Root because she doesn't have the will. He doesn't pursue the Root because he lacks the talent. And also, associating with someone from Policies is not advisable since they're heretics. Lastly, this isn't the first time they met. They met in vol1 of the novels that was skipped. Let's just say Adashino did several things there that Waver found annoying.

[Endscape]

The biggest difference between Waver and Adashino is their approach to the truth. If Waver is a magus that reveals the truth, then Adashino is a mage that manipulates the truth.

[Random14]

First multi-episode case. And the Apocrypha references continue (well, that timeline isn't too far off from the main F/SN background, at least compared to something like Extra). Nice to see Shishigou, he was one of the best characters from that series.

Huh, that lady from the first novel, that's not a good sign. And a Fairy? I don't see that term often in Fate. Usually most old things are from the Age of Gods or something like that. And sure seems like a lot of Mystic Eyes around. Its more fun having Reines along rather than just her giving Waver a case at the start of an episode.

I hope they don't drag on the Holy Grail War thing too long. We know Waver's not getting into that war and we've already seen two official representatives. I know Waver trying to summon Rider again is his dream but I would've preferred it as a background or overall plot rather than already finding out many of the spots are gone already.

[wuhugm]

If he wants to stay El Melloi, he must marry his sister, right?

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Oh, Kairi's back too. The author must really like Apocrypha. Kairi and Mordred were the best Master/Servant pair so I'm glad to see him again.

I suspect Mr Sanda just like his cameos. It seems that every arc in the novel has a guest star from the other Type Moon franchises (H/A, Knk/Mahoyo, Apocrypha + FGO and Melty Blood/Tsukihime).

Originally Posted by Frontier

Did Wills reject his student's feelings because he has feelings for the fairy woman? The inappropriateness of it didn't seem to matter. Or is that another Apocrypha reference (man, I need to watch that) ?

His enemies could use a scandal to get rid of him if he's not careful. As Adashino herself has implied in this episode, the Clock Tower is not interested in truth, only power and what you can do with it.

Reines obviously passed off the child conceiving as a joke, but I'm wondering if there might be a potential issue of fathering an heir for the El Melloi line and Reines' possibly having her own untoward feelings towards her "brother." They actually did look kind of cute sleeping together in separate beds, like those old fashioned married couples .

Reines is probably not that serious about making babies with her "brother" at the moment (this is only the second time she has raised it up, teasingly of course ). However despite his poor lineage and circuits, imho Waver does have some good points that are attractive from an objective PoV. He is not likely to cheat on her and the fact that he has no attachment to the other great houses means that Reines won't need to worry about him having dubious loyalties. His influence among the younger generation could also be a boon to the House of El Melloi, though this could be a double-edged sword that may thrust them deeper in the Clock Tower's power struggle whether they like it or not.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Estavali

His enemies could use a scandal to get rid of him if he's not careful. As Adashino herself has implied in this episode, the Clock Tower is not interested in truth, only power and what you can do with it.

Would they care about him having an affair with a student? They have ruthlessly enforced rules, but mages seem to be pretty amoral by normal standards.

Reines is probably not that serious about making babies with her "brother" at the moment (this is only the second time she has raised it up, teasingly of course ). However despite his poor lineage and circuits, imho Waver does have some good points that are attractive from an objective PoV. He is not likely to cheat on her and the fact that he has no attachment to the other great houses means that Reines won't need to worry about him having dubious loyalties. His influence among the younger generation could also be a boon to the House of El Melloi, though this could be a double-edged sword that may thrust them deeper in the Clock Tower's power struggle whether they like it or not.

Counterpoints:
- him not having loyalties toward other houses isn't the same as being loyal to her house;
- because he has so few prospects, it may not be necessary to marry him to retain his services;
- the long term goal of producing more powerful mages is not served by his inclusion in the bloodline, and it's more important than whatever short term gains he may bring.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Would they care about him having an affair with a student? They have ruthlessly enforced rules, but mages seem to be pretty amoral by normal standards.

I could easily see it becoming a problem if the student is of "nobility".

[orion]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Would they care about him having an affair with a student? They have ruthlessly enforced rules, but mages seem to be pretty amoral by normal standards.




Counterpoints:
- him not having loyalties toward other houses isn't the same as being loyal to her house;
- because he has so few prospects, it may not be necessary to marry him to retain his services;
- the long term goal of producing more powerful mages is not served by his inclusion in the bloodline, and it's more important than whatever short term gains he may bring.

But what about Reines bloodline marrying the kid produced by Gray and Waver? That kid has to be powerful as mom is a Saberface.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Would they care about him having an affair with a student? They have ruthlessly enforced rules, but mages seem to be pretty amoral by normal standards.




Counterpoints:
- him not having loyalties toward other houses isn't the same as being loyal to her house;
- because he has so few prospects, it may not be necessary to marry him to retain his services;
- the long term goal of producing more powerful mages is not served by his inclusion in the bloodline, and it's more important than whatever short term gains he may bring.

Your first and second point are contradicting each other. If he weren't loyal to her there would be no guarantees she can retain his service. Once his depth is paid he can do whatever he wants.

But by marriage she would tie him to El Melloi family for good, which given his ability could be very adventagious. What's more he talent to find extremely strong and skilled magi, bring their potential out and be adored by them. This could contribute lot of strong blood into family in long run.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Your first and second point are contradicting each other. If he weren't loyal to her there would be no guarantees she can retain his service. Once his depth is paid he can do whatever he wants.

But by marriage she would tie him to El Melloi family for good, which given his ability could be very adventagious. What's more he talent to find extremely strong and skilled magi, bring their potential out and be adored by them. This could contribute lot of strong blood into family in long run.

He can do whatever he wants, but the Clock Tower position and all its perks disappear once he leaves the family. He'd just prob be broke again. To keep him there, she'd only need to keep him in a cycle of debt accumulation and payment. He's easy to read and honest so she doesn't have too much to worry about with him imo.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by orion

But what about Reines bloodline marrying the kid produced by Gray and Waver? That kid has to be powerful as mom is a Saberface.

I guess they'll just have to produce a kid and then we'll see.

Originally Posted by orion

He can do whatever he wants, but the Clock Tower position and all its perks disappear once he leaves the family. He'd just prob be broke again. To keep him there, she'd only need to keep him in a cycle of debt accumulation and payment. He's easy to read and honest so she doesn't have too much to worry about with him imo.

Exactly. The only worry would be if she wanted to do something he considers unethical. He might get in her way, and marriage wouldn't change that.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Troyca's art style is really growing on me. It's not Ufotable's crazy high end images but some of this episode's scenes were really beautifully done

[Mad Pierrot]

The trauma involving Waver/Melloi really make the Japanese actor shine a lot. Nice episode.

[Anh_Minh]

BTW, did Waver use magic to become tall?

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Random14

I hope they don't drag on the Holy Grail War thing too long. We know Waver's not getting into that war and we've already seen two official representatives. I know Waver trying to summon Rider again is his dream but I would've preferred it as a background or overall plot rather than already finding out many of the spots are gone already.

Come to think of it, would Waver even be able to summon Iskandar as Rider again, or would it depend on the timing of when he did it? I forget how the Classes get assigned during the Holy Grail War other then by certain heroic attributes and needing a slot to fill.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Come to think of it, would Waver even be able to summon Iskandar as Rider again, or would it depend on the timing of when he did it? I forget how the Classes get assigned during the Holy Grail War other then by certain heroic attributes and needing a slot to fill.

If nothing is done classes are assigned at random with a slight bias for compatibility. But by using relics and carefully planned rituals they can stand a good chance of getting which one they want on a first come first served basis. I think if someone was going for Hercules as an archer and someone had already gotten an archer they would get another random class Hercules would fit and if all of those were taken they would fail or get a random servant.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Come to think of it, would Waver even be able to summon Iskandar as Rider again, or would it depend on the timing of when he did it? I forget how the Classes get assigned during the Holy Grail War other then by certain heroic attributes and needing a slot to fill.

The Grail basically already knows who is going to summon and what Servant. Worst case scenario, he'd still summon Iskander (between his affinity with Iskander and the relic, there's no way he's not getting him), but it might not be as a Rider.

As for how it determines which Servant gets which class, I'd assume it kind of does it like a puzzle. Figure out which ones have the most limited options and work from there to fit them all into containers.

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Would they care about him having an affair with a student? They have ruthlessly enforced rules, but mages seem to be pretty amoral by normal standards.

You have a point. Then again, I think it's easier to level charges on a person with questionable reputation than on one who's more or less clean. It is easier to justify and would invite less questions or challenges to the authorities for one thing. I mean, even corrupt cops would take the trouble to plant "evidence" before accusing someone of a crime they didn't commit. No matter how naughty us humans can be, we still have this need to justify our actions for some reason =3

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

The trauma involving Waver/Melloi really make the Japanese actor shine a lot. Nice episode.

I like how he could change from young Waver to older Waver on cue. Episode 1 & 3 were good examples of this imho, when Lord El Melloi II would slip back into his old self when he's agitated

Originally Posted by Magewolf

If nothing is done classes are assigned at random with a slight bias for compatibility. But by using relics and carefully planned rituals they can stand a good chance of getting which one they want on a first come first served basis. I think if someone was going for Hercules as an archer and someone had already gotten an archer they would get another random class Hercules would fit and if all of those were taken they would fail or get a random servant.

You know, I kinda want to see how a HGW would be like if each Master has a relic related to one same hero who can fit all 7 classes

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Estavali

You know, I kinda want to see how a HGW would be like if each Master has a relic related to one same hero who can fit all 7 classes

Unlimited Saberface Works?

[Estavali]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Unlimited Saberface Works?

Err, that works in FGO, but I was looking more at those with a all-rounder lore

(I'll be honest though. Having an Artoria Royale could be fun, especially if each version has a different take on kingship and stuff and is critical of the others' views. "What, junk food is the best? What are you, some uncultured peasant swine?! Shirou's food is the golden standard!").

Come to think of it, many heroes in Indian saga seem to fit the bill, no? Maybe not so much with the Assassin class, but then again, in the traditional HGW, that class is reserved for Hassan-ibn-Sabbah.

Wait. Maybe a semi-fictional Old Man of the Mountain could be the one I'm looking for?