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cadu_ · 2016-09-05, 15:30

How could you guys turn a conversation about how dark Duegeon Defense is, into a comversation about another novel where a woman is turned into a unicorn and need to be banged by many horses to become human again?

Offtopic:
I just had a nice idea of changing my profile picture to hentaiga's profile picture turned to the left or right. And then someone can make the same thing to the other side.

Fiir-chan · 2016-09-05, 21:21

Spoiler for eh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ungururuh

@carinderyeah

I don't know exactly what you would be implying by "flipping a shit" because that reveal had a very mild effect and that is saying much coming from a guy that hates rape or abuse with a passion, even more then murder. Literally if I would encounter those types of scenarios I would stand up walk in circles and fume for an hour.

The readers simply don't get a chance to connect with that character till that point in time because she had so little presence or influence in the story and when the reveal happens it is simply used as a pointless argument in a pointless situation for a pointless action. I mean, the logic that Lapis applies to justify using that type of trauma is so cringe worthy that it would be best quickly forgotten. It is clear that the author has a basic understanding on human psychology, but I can't exactly fault him for that.

As of right now to me personally V1 was a good read, and that says a lot because in my book "good" means a lot considering that would make the book part of the 1% that I deem worthy to be in that category. You can see that it was refined a couple of times before publishing.
V1 had a clear idea of what it desired to achieve and it did so marvelously. The character interactions was good, the plot was tight and there were very few mistakes.

Unfortunately, and I should say like always, things never last and as such you could see a degradation in quality. It might not be as obvious to the untrained eye but the inevitable did happen.
V2 was a interesting read with a good but shaky conclusion. Do not mistakenly think that this might stem from the "loli" part of the novel because I personally do not have those types of "labels" cemented in my head and as such I do not score a novel based on those type of prejudgments, neither positively or negatively. What I look the most for in novels that I deem "good" is "out of character" actions or thought patterns which mostly translates indirectly to readers as plot holes (and yes, they could be small or large ones).
As it stands, the leap that the MC makes as a personality and character logic from V1 to V2 is simply poorly handled. There is no apparent reason for the big changes in his train of thought and to me it mostly seems that the author simply lost his previous grasp of MC character because of a "writing pause" (or something like that). His actions, in order to achieve his desired conclusion, aren't as convincing and some are even logically faulty.

The most obvious flaw is the way the MC is recounting his story. What should have been the main attraction, the soul of V2, was handled very poorly.
What were your first thoughts when you started reading the volume? What were people speculating when the prologue and the first chapter were posted? The first idea that popped up in your head, wasn't it that the MC had started to spin a thick web of lies, misinformation, half truths mixed with the real events to push Barbatos buttons? And weren't you trying to poke holes and figure out this marvelous puzzle before the conclusion and real facts were made clear by the author?
Yet you get to the end of the volume and the only thing that is made clear is that the MC was simply stating the facts as they occurred and the only "special" thing in his long monologue was that he omitted how he settled the misunderstanding with Lapis at the end.

I don't know how it was for you but for me it was a "WTF" moment, which would have been fine and all if what he told Barbatos wasn't so damn incriminatory. I mean, even a two digit IQ person can deduce from less of what he told her that he was colluding to some degree with Lapis. Wasn't he a schemer? Wasn't he "intelligent"?
Emotionally distressed?, don't even try to think about that because he was recounting the events after he settled and made his conclusion.
So the hell was he trying to gain by being truthful all of a sudden? Apparently nothing, nothing at all, and the way Barbatos responded to his truthful story was even more mind boggling. Isn't she the "controlling type"? I mean it is eluded that she was betrayed a coupled of times in her long lifespan, and her personal army being composed of only "marionettes" that she has total control over, what does that tell you? The fact that she didn't react in any way to what the MC told her is puzzling to say the least, I mean, you would at least think that she would have tried to leverage what he "confessed" to her against him in order to fulfill her control cravings.

V3 so far has stepped a level lower, the character feel robotic and their previous personality appears to have almost gone. What was released so far is like a collection of facts that a friend would give you when you asked him a question.
"Well hey you, what you've been up to lately?" and he starts :"Well I've been to the mall, the large blue one near the center. I bought milk, eggs and condoms. When I arrived at the cashier the girl there started looking that certain way at me. I couldn't tell if it's was cause of the eggs or because of my charming smile. O yea, and I saw a train running a cat over, apparently that happened cause it was black."

the point where I was going on about why wuhugm and Sparteh is about the now-canon rape of Laura, its explained why on my previous post. it looks like its going to be a sub-plotline for Laura's development just that. I mean wuhugm has read series where the MC rapes heroines and Sparteh has distaste of Rape in general. I have no qualms about that. but when its a major character that was raped IN THE PAST. I'd be okay if they were indifferent when it happened, but they seem to be kicking up a fuss why the author cemented it down in the story. but its inevitable with differing opinions so I left it with that statement.

now this here, you set up a major part of your foundation about the novel a bit wrong.

what is the best about dungeon defense is that unlike other series' where you are viewing the interactions and events unfold as the reader. where you know everything unfolding, motives and backstories.

you are forced to view it like in a horse race. a horse race has three POV's the audience, the riders, and the horse. when you are the horse, you run to be the first, so that you don't end up in the meat house. when you are the rider, you bet on your own horse. when you are the audience, you bet on a winning horse for certainty of reward, or on the losing horse for the greater risk of losing but the chance for an even greater reward.

you enjoy the POV in DD.

Spoiler for lets take for example your take on vol 2's ending.:

All of it was done perfectly and delivered by the volume properly

another thing amazing with DD is that the delivery of the story varies for each volume. Vol 1 was more straightforward while Vol 2 was unraveling the mysteries one by one. I hold back my impressions on Vol 3 as I stated before because its not completed yet, unless you've read the raws, then I'll respect your impressions on the difference.

mors86 · 2016-09-05, 22:51

There are so many walls of text that I'm losing the conversation lol.

Just wanted to pitch in, I didn't see what was the shaky conclusion in v02. Dantalian only said what he wanted to say to play Barbatos. The final intermission showed Barbatos was happy and sure that she'd managed to "control" Dantalian (which is apparently her fetish that even bleeds into her necromantic magic), which was Dantalian's goal.

Because as we see in the end, if she ever found out it was the other way around? She'd kill him, and control his corpse. This is something he knows from the start, presumably, since Barbatos is a prominent character in the game and he probably even knows her backstory.

I read the whole volume at once, so maybe I got a different picture?

Fiir-chan · 2016-09-05, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by mors86

/snip/

She know's she was played, but she rolled with it. truly the best.

ungururuh · 2016-09-06, 02:36

@carinderyeah
Never use "perfectly" to describe or conclude your argument. It makes your claim liable for any number of ways to counter. When was anything in this world ever perfect?

Now, I won't use that for an argument because that would defeat the purpose of our discussion but I will point out another mistake you've made when creating your "defense".
The most common logical fallacy that readers make is believing in the words used by an author or characters of a story to describe certain things without objectively looking at the facts or character actions before making their conclusion. Therefore many believe without question that someone is very intelligent just because he/she is described so many times by different people in the story or by the author himself. By never doubting that fact the reader makes one step further and starts to think that all the actions the "smart" character/s makes are perfectly justifiably, are reasonable an above all else, all are optimally and masterfully done.

But are they so? By objectively looking at the "data" provided, their statements and what they claim that they have done without first assigning the characters a label could someone of reasonable mind still come to the same conclusions as the characters or authors claims? If you would strip V2 of any type of character classification and give a random person of reasonable mind to look only at the remaining facts, would they affirm that belief? How would they describe those characters that participated in the story? Do you think that "intelligent", devious or "mastermind" would be the first words that they will use to describe the characters of V2?

"Dantalian is also an unreliable narrator." How is that so? What proof would you bring me of this? Did he not retell the events of the story that ensued prior, exactly as they happened and as he has observed them. Did he attempt to change and sew lies with the truth that he knew? Or are you claiming that this indeed happened, if so what is your proof of this? Or are you implying that we should believe that he concocted the majority of the story he told to Barbatos without any proof of what really transgressed, neither coming from the author, the characters or the volume itself.
Are you saying that this lack of truth of what really happened will be addressed in later volumes? How sure are you about this?

"Vol 2 was unraveling the mysteries one by one." That is exactly my point, what mysteries? There are none, unless you claim that those "mysteries" is finding out the truth behind Lapis slap or following the poor laid out subplot of why she was aggravated by his actions I don't see anything that pertains to achieving his desired goal, that of "manipulating Barbatos" in any way shape or form. It's like reading a detective story and when you get to the conclusion you never see how the murderer achieved the crime. Sure, you heard a nice story about how the butler made love to a goat during all that and it served to peak your interest at first but was it truly relevant if the actions that the murderer took to commit the crime were never made clear or were logically faulty?

Where is his previous great scheming character? Where has his word playing and intelligent nature gone too?
There is no ruse of great magnitude here, the way he tells his part of the story serves no purpose in achieving his desired claimed goal, unless his audience are mear children that are swayed by candy I don't see how a simple gesture of a gift would make anyone do what the MC desired. "Drafting soldiers by messing with Ivar" I don't see how that would serve any purpose in their debate of assumed intellect in any shape or form.

Point is, that the only thing that he has done in V2 that was expected of him was at first omit the fact that he already concluded his dispute with Lapis and lie that their conflict was exacerbated, a thing that serves very little to manipulate anyone especially when the same person quickly starts incriminating himself of prior collusion with the same person he claims he had a disagreement with.

Xellos-_^ · 2016-09-06, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

The prince was basically a book made by Niccolò Machiavelli. It was believed to be a very evil book which is why his name is associated with evil very often; but he wasn't really evil but rather his views were very...new during the time. He advocates the necessity to use "the ends justify the means" type of mentality when there is no possible way to achieve a happy ending through happy means. He was basically one of the first pragmatists in this world to have guts to write about it in an pro-idealistic society.

BladeMancer go read some history books, you gasped of history is absolutely atrocious.

What Machiavelli wrote was not new. It how ever member of the upper class live their life by if they want power. You scheme against the guy on top of you and shield yourself form the guy below you.

the phase "you are paranoid but are you paranoid enough" and "you are not paranoid if someone is out to get you" are how these people actually live.

while there were some idealist people, this was age where priest visit whorehouse in the open. European society was definitely not idealistic

BladeMancer · 2016-09-06, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

BladeMancer go read some history books, you gasped of history is absolutely atrocious.

What Machiavelli wrote was not new. It how ever member of the upper class live their life by if they want power. You scheme against the guy on top of you and shield yourself form the guy below you.

the phase "you are paranoid but are you paranoid enough" and "you are paranoid if some is out to get you" are how these people actually live.

why there were some idealist people, this was age where priest visit whorehouse in the open. European society was definitely not idealistic

Well excuse me. It's hard to find any credible sources about Machiavelli, hell I even doubted the source a little when it said that his views were new...the renaissance was a period of many societal reforms and a time of renewed interest in many lost classical arts; namely art, science, music, architecture, humanism, literature and obviously politics. Even if this was such a period of progress lots of blood was shed to reform or remove older and outdated rules...and I am sure politics was especially brutal. Niccolo's book the prince was claimed by readers to have a lot of dishonesty and general apathy over the killing of innocents, but he was stating the reality of politics in that time (and to an extent; modern day) and how a good leader does not equal a good person.

I do make some stupid mistakes from time to time; trusting a yahoo answer was not my brightest idea...I should have relied on my memory of 8th grade history class.

Xellos-_^ · 2016-09-06, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

Well excuse me. It's hard to find any credible sources about Machiavelli, hell I even doubted the source a little when it said that his views were new...the renaissance was a period of many societal reforms and a time of renewed interest in many lost classical arts; namely art, science, music, architecture, humanism, literature and obviously politics. Even if this was such a period of progress lots of blood was shed to reform or remove older and outdated rules...and I am sure politics was especially brutal. Niccolo's book the prince was claimed by readers to have a lot of dishonesty and general apathy over the killing of innocents, but he was stating the reality of politics in that time (and to an extent; modern day) and how a good leader does not equal a good person.

I do make some stupid mistakes from time to time; trusting a yahoo answer was not my brightest idea...I should have relied on my memory of 8th grade history class.

politics has always been brutal, there has never been a period in any society where politics is not brutal.

Breimn · 2016-09-08, 07:27

More is out.

wuhugm · 2016-09-08, 08:15

Army molding...

Though since no named characters appeared from the army, the impact is questionable...

Farnese's punishment is better than that sick couple's idea imho
Theirs is just insane and not dignified at all

So funny looking at this couple thinking they are above everyone else when in reality only overestimating their abilities

mors86 · 2016-09-08, 08:43

They do have a point. What was the meaning of the punishment Farnese used, beyond being unusual?

"If you rape, be raped in turn and then executed" is much more clear-cut. Who cares about dignity, they're criminals under martial law in a medieval society.

If you do x, we'll do x back to you far more cruelly and then execute you. Easy to understand. In contrast, what Farnese did was like a Bond supervillain shoving people into his shark-tank just because they irritated him.

wuhugm · 2016-09-08, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by mors86

They do have a point. What was the meaning of the punishment Farnese used, beyond being unusual?

"If you rape, be raped in turn and then executed" is much more clear-cut. Who cares about dignity, they're criminals under martial law in a medieval society.

If you do x, we'll do x back to you far more cruelly and then execute you. Easy to understand. In contrast, what Farnese did was like a Bond supervillain shoving people into his shark-tank just because they irritated him.

Fool

You don't understand the premise at all

This "Army" is not Dantalian's subjects. They were drafted/hired from surrounding areas since Dantalian doesn't have territory as of now, shit, he doesn't even have castle any longer.

This is temporary army. What's the point in traumatizing them when the army just gonna be disbanded after the war?

Instead, be dignified now and popularity will soar and more people will answer the draft in the next war.

mors86 · 2016-09-08, 09:41

... Never go into politics.

Also, all demons are subject to the 72 lords. These people were hired, as stated in the chapter. It's not just a peasant levy/militia, they're actual soldiers (at least the officer corps, plus the veterans - maybe many of the privates). In an army you don't go for mass populism, that shit doesn't fly.

(Actually this wasn't answered in the chapter, whether they were hired as mercenaries, or as retinue to Dantalian as per his status of a demon lord. But it's the same either way.)

If you think in medieval society you gave the peasants dignity and they loved you back, hell - that doesn't happen even now. If he really needed popularity he can play up the religious angle as one of the 72 divine figures who rule demons.

But Dantalian isn't the type of guy who'd depend on popularity of the masses to get what he loves, authority. Such a thing is inherently fickle and unstable.

The punishment's draconian but if it works, it works.

wuhugm · 2016-09-08, 09:52

^The number matched with the one he hired for defending against that margrave, so contract extension I guess? This is the army which 2 units were told to suicide and they complied, what to improve even?

Also Dantalian's idea is laughable :
Cut their penis, drill a hole there, let orc rape that hole in front of everyone
lol
Now I don't know exactly how orc's thought process is. But will it just rape that bloody hole of a man right away?
What if the orc doesn't want to? The leaders will become a laughingstock then

Also

Quote:

Originally Posted by mors86

In an army you don't go for mass populism, that shit doesn't fly.

If you think in medieval society you gave the peasants dignity and they loved you back, hell - that doesn't happen even now.

Nobody is even talking about mass populism or love
Dignity doesn't equal that
the fuck even you talking about?

Breimn · 2016-09-08, 10:01

Actually the ones he used in vol 2 were city guards since there was not much time before enemy army got close so they are probably another bunch of soldiers.
And it seems like untamed orc are going to rape any hole they see in front of them from how they talked about them. Too much hentai influence?

mors86 · 2016-09-08, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Nobody is even talking about mass populism or love
Dignity doesn't equal that
the fuck even you talking about?

Why would he give dignity if he doesn't expect anything back? The punishment is supposed to make the soldiers afraid (retributive/retaliatory justice). This can work if it's not overdone (by which I mean not too frequently, not how gruesome the punishment is). The problem is to make a bunch of soldiers take a little girl seriously and fear is a start - respect will come once she shows results.

You're saying he should give them a dignified death, but how does that help in this situation? I thought you were saying he could play up something like a "father to his men" image if he did that. His image was not the problem here.

If you're saying he should give them dignity because that's what you like to read, then I don't think I can argue against that.

wuhugm · 2016-09-08, 10:21

^Dignified death?
The hell are you talking about?

Dignity as a commander yo

Also you keep talking about rule of terror
like wtf?
Do you forget what Dantalian's Ability was? TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE'S AFFECTION
Do you also forget how he gained people's affection by using sob story about Romeo and Juliet and then about his own forbidden love with half demon Lapis?

Dude... dude... clearly you don't even read this novel...

mors86 · 2016-09-08, 10:34

"Dignity as a commander"? Do you eat it, or wash your hair with it?

Not to mention the whole thing is hypothetical because it's Farnese who would have to implement the punishment. It's different if it were Dantalian but the soldiers won't see that little human girl as dignified if she just killed the rapists. They'll shrug it off soon enough.

On the other point you raised. He's gained people's affections yes, but that's not what he's going to base his authority on long-term; this should be clear from what we've seen of his character.

(His affection point seeing ability also isn't detailed en masse, at best he gets "continent is now afraid of you" like we see in v01 prologue. He can use the ability in detail only against individuals. But that's an aside.)

Sorry to bow out of the argument but it's pretty late where I live, maybe I'll come back tomorrow. I agree that it feels like we're not reading the same book.

wuhugm · 2016-09-08, 10:47

^Do you eat it, or wash your hair with it?
Such educated argument lol~

That's why I said in my very first post about this that no named characters appeared from the "Army". Meaning the importance of this army is low in the first place.

For such meaningless army you'd bother yourself to go find an orc to rape offenders?

Oh and you don't even comment on the feasibility of the orc rape plan itself.

Ebrie · 2016-09-08, 11:05

I liked how Farnese is going the evil dictator route instead of the blessed virgin. It makes sense that she would want to be feared after only being used as a tool of love.

To those who are calling Dantalion's army 'temporary', remember that he wants a world war. From the prologue, we know that he has command of a few cities in the Human lands, and he would need a standing army for that. If anything, I bet Dantalion will absorb many of the troops the other Demon Lords brought.

2016-09-05, 15:30	Link #121
cadu_ Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014	How could you guys turn a conversation about how dark Duegeon Defense is, into a comversation about another novel where a woman is turned into a unicorn and need to be banged by many horses to become human again? Offtopic: I just had a nice idea of changing my profile picture to hentaiga's profile picture turned to the left or right. And then someone can make the same thing to the other side. __________________

2016-09-08, 08:15	Link #130
wuhugm Confused Shark Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlantis	Army molding... Though since no named characters appeared from the army, the impact is questionable... Farnese's punishment is better than that sick couple's idea imho Theirs is just insane and not dignified at all So funny looking at this couple thinking they are above everyone else when in reality only overestimating their abilities __________________ ------------------------------------------ [SPOILER] Manga, Anime, & LN Where The Girl MC Ended Up With Is Not The Main Heroine All My Threads

2016-09-08, 10:21	Link #137
wuhugm Confused Shark Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlantis	^Dignified death? The hell are you talking about? Dignity as a commander yo Also you keep talking about rule of terror like wtf? Do you forget what Dantalian's Ability was? TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE'S AFFECTION Do you also forget how he gained people's affection by using sob story about Romeo and Juliet and then about his own forbidden love with half demon Lapis? Dude... dude... clearly you don't even read this novel... __________________ ------------------------------------------ [SPOILER] Manga, Anime, & LN Where The Girl MC Ended Up With Is Not The Main Heroine All My Threads

2016-09-08, 10:47	Link #139
wuhugm Confused Shark Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlantis	^Do you eat it, or wash your hair with it? Such educated argument lol~ That's why I said in my very first post about this that no named characters appeared from the "Army". Meaning the importance of this army is low in the first place. For such meaningless army you'd bother yourself to go find an orc to rape offenders? Oh and you don't even comment on the feasibility of the orc rape plan itself. __________________ ------------------------------------------ [SPOILER] Manga, Anime, & LN Where The Girl MC Ended Up With Is Not The Main Heroine All My Threads

2016-09-05, 22:51	Link #123
mors86 Member Join Date: Oct 2015	There are so many walls of text that I'm losing the conversation lol. Just wanted to pitch in, I didn't see what was the shaky conclusion in v02. Dantalian only said what he wanted to say to play Barbatos. The final intermission showed Barbatos was happy and sure that she'd managed to "control" Dantalian (which is apparently her fetish that even bleeds into her necromantic magic), which was Dantalian's goal. Because as we see in the end, if she ever found out it was the other way around? She'd kill him, and control his corpse. This is something he knows from the start, presumably, since Barbatos is a prominent character in the game and he probably even knows her backstory. I read the whole volume at once, so maybe I got a different picture?

2016-09-06, 02:36	Link #125
ungururuh Member Join Date: Sep 2015	@carinderyeah Never use "perfectly" to describe or conclude your argument. It makes your claim liable for any number of ways to counter. When was anything in this world ever perfect? Now, I won't use that for an argument because that would defeat the purpose of our discussion but I will point out another mistake you've made when creating your "defense". The most common logical fallacy that readers make is believing in the words used by an author or characters of a story to describe certain things without objectively looking at the facts or character actions before making their conclusion. Therefore many believe without question that someone is very intelligent just because he/she is described so many times by different people in the story or by the author himself. By never doubting that fact the reader makes one step further and starts to think that all the actions the "smart" character/s makes are perfectly justifiably, are reasonable an above all else, all are optimally and masterfully done. But are they so? By objectively looking at the "data" provided, their statements and what they claim that they have done without first assigning the characters a label could someone of reasonable mind still come to the same conclusions as the characters or authors claims? If you would strip V2 of any type of character classification and give a random person of reasonable mind to look only at the remaining facts, would they affirm that belief? How would they describe those characters that participated in the story? Do you think that "intelligent", devious or "mastermind" would be the first words that they will use to describe the characters of V2? "Dantalian is also an unreliable narrator." How is that so? What proof would you bring me of this? Did he not retell the events of the story that ensued prior, exactly as they happened and as he has observed them. Did he attempt to change and sew lies with the truth that he knew? Or are you claiming that this indeed happened, if so what is your proof of this? Or are you implying that we should believe that he concocted the majority of the story he told to Barbatos without any proof of what really transgressed, neither coming from the author, the characters or the volume itself. Are you saying that this lack of truth of what really happened will be addressed in later volumes? How sure are you about this? "Vol 2 was unraveling the mysteries one by one." That is exactly my point, what mysteries? There are none, unless you claim that those "mysteries" is finding out the truth behind Lapis slap or following the poor laid out subplot of why she was aggravated by his actions I don't see anything that pertains to achieving his desired goal, that of "manipulating Barbatos" in any way shape or form. It's like reading a detective story and when you get to the conclusion you never see how the murderer achieved the crime. Sure, you heard a nice story about how the butler made love to a goat during all that and it served to peak your interest at first but was it truly relevant if the actions that the murderer took to commit the crime were never made clear or were logically faulty? Where is his previous great scheming character? Where has his word playing and intelligent nature gone too? There is no ruse of great magnitude here, the way he tells his part of the story serves no purpose in achieving his desired claimed goal, unless his audience are mear children that are swayed by candy I don't see how a simple gesture of a gift would make anyone do what the MC desired. "Drafting soldiers by messing with Ivar" I don't see how that would serve any purpose in their debate of assumed intellect in any shape or form. Point is, that the only thing that he has done in V2 that was expected of him was at first omit the fact that he already concluded his dispute with Lapis and lie that their conflict was exacerbated, a thing that serves very little to manipulate anyone especially when the same person quickly starts incriminating himself of prior collusion with the same person he claims he had a disagreement with.

2016-09-08, 07:27	Link #129
Breimn Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015	More is out.

2016-09-08, 08:43	Link #131
mors86 Member Join Date: Oct 2015	They do have a point. What was the meaning of the punishment Farnese used, beyond being unusual? "If you rape, be raped in turn and then executed" is much more clear-cut. Who cares about dignity, they're criminals under martial law in a medieval society. If you do x, we'll do x back to you far more cruelly and then execute you. Easy to understand. In contrast, what Farnese did was like a Bond supervillain shoving people into his shark-tank just because they irritated him.

2016-09-08, 09:41	Link #133
mors86 Member Join Date: Oct 2015	... Never go into politics. Also, all demons are subject to the 72 lords. These people were hired, as stated in the chapter. It's not just a peasant levy/militia, they're actual soldiers (at least the officer corps, plus the veterans - maybe many of the privates). In an army you don't go for mass populism, that shit doesn't fly. (Actually this wasn't answered in the chapter, whether they were hired as mercenaries, or as retinue to Dantalian as per his status of a demon lord. But it's the same either way.) If you think in medieval society you gave the peasants dignity and they loved you back, hell - that doesn't happen even now. If he really needed popularity he can play up the religious angle as one of the 72 divine figures who rule demons. But Dantalian isn't the type of guy who'd depend on popularity of the masses to get what he loves, authority. Such a thing is inherently fickle and unstable. The punishment's draconian but if it works, it works.

2016-09-08, 10:01	Link #135
Breimn Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015	Actually the ones he used in vol 2 were city guards since there was not much time before enemy army got close so they are probably another bunch of soldiers. And it seems like untamed orc are going to rape any hole they see in front of them from how they talked about them. Too much hentai influence?

2016-09-08, 10:34	Link #138
mors86 Member Join Date: Oct 2015	"Dignity as a commander"? Do you eat it, or wash your hair with it? Not to mention the whole thing is hypothetical because it's Farnese who would have to implement the punishment. It's different if it were Dantalian but the soldiers won't see that little human girl as dignified if she just killed the rapists. They'll shrug it off soon enough. On the other point you raised. He's gained people's affections yes, but that's not what he's going to base his authority on long-term; this should be clear from what we've seen of his character. (His affection point seeing ability also isn't detailed en masse, at best he gets "continent is now afraid of you" like we see in v01 prologue. He can use the ability in detail only against individuals. But that's an aside.) Sorry to bow out of the argument but it's pretty late where I live, maybe I'll come back tomorrow. I agree that it feels like we're not reading the same book.

2016-09-08, 11:05	Link #140
Ebrie Member Join Date: Apr 2016	I liked how Farnese is going the evil dictator route instead of the blessed virgin. It makes sense that she would want to be feared after only being used as a tool of love. To those who are calling Dantalion's army 'temporary', remember that he wants a world war. From the prologue, we know that he has command of a few cities in the Human lands, and he would need a standing army for that. If anything, I bet Dantalion will absorb many of the troops the other Demon Lords brought.