Shin High School DxD Volume 3 Discussion

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by Elmenhilde Lover

Doesn't prove he can't like you believe.

Sure it does. You also have to consider that Issei's stamina isn't up par with Crom.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Typhoon was stated to be superior than Dulio in terms of controlling the weather and he lost to Ddraig so I doubt Dulio would be equal to a serious Crom.

Superior sure. But Typhon is the sort who will go at anyone head-on like a power-type would regardless of their difference in strength. I doubt Dulio would take Crom Cruach on like Typhon would.

Not saying that Dulio is as strong as Crom Cruach but just saying his abilities most likely gave him a compatibility advantage against the Evil Dragon with no special abilities.

@Hakai Bucket of water? More like a heavy downpour of rain. And Issei did use a container of water and boosted it to weaken Tannin's fire breath during his training in Volume 5 with him.

[Elmenhilde Lover]

Crom is more skilled and in control of his power. Issei has not trained True DxD G and its full potential has not been shown. So can't say Crom is equal or surpasses it. Also just want to mention Ophis in this volume's preview read said True DxD G is Issei's final form. So a solid reason you can't say Issei cannot beat Crom with his final form.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Superior sure. But Typhon is the sort who will go at anyone head-on like a power-type would regardless of their difference in strength. I doubt Dulio would take Crom Cruach on like Typhon would.

Not saying that Dulio is as strong as Crom Cruach but just saying his abilities most likely gave him a compatibility advantage against the Evil Dragon with no special abilities.

@Hakai Bucket of water? More like a heavy downpour of rain. And Issei did use a container of water and boosted it to weaken Tannin's fire breath during his training in Volume 5 with him.

Typhoon was using the weather efficientmy as he could. Against Roygun, Bova and Elmenhilde, we saw he was using downpour rain to hinder their moments and against Ddraig we saw how he tried to cancel out Ddraig's flames with wind, although Ddraig's flames did pierce through it. Typhoon has shown he can use the weather to his advantage despite his large size.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Superior sure. But Typhon is the sort who will go at anyone head-on like a power-type would regardless of their difference in strength. I doubt Dulio would take Crom Cruach on like Typhon would.

Not saying that Dulio is as strong as Crom Cruach but just saying his abilities most likely gave him a compatibility advantage against the Evil Dragon with no special abilities.

@Hakai Bucket of water? More like a heavy downpour of rain. And Issei did use a container of water and boosted it to weaken Tannin's fire breath during his training in Volume 5 with him.

How does his abilities give him a compatibility advantage? Do you mean against other Evil Dragons because Crom with just his dragon abilities I don't see him being hinder by the weather.

[XFire]

Yikes, go to sleep for a few hours and the thread leaves you behind.

In general reply to those who objected to my characterization of Vali's fight.....how?

Vali spends the battle trying to control the spacing between him and Crom, and failing as Crom is able to keep up constant pressure. He uses CD to try and slow Crom down -> Crom powers through it. He tries to use his speed advantage -> Crom cross counters him. And so on for pretty much the whole fight we're witness to. And at the end Vali drops to the ground wheezing from exertion while Crom is still just standing around.

Compare to what we see of the Ddraig fight, where Crom is the one defending the attacks. Ddraig techniques let his flames beat Croms, Crom actually tries to deflect Ddraigs Dragon Shot only to take damage to his core, etc.

Crom never even bothers to defend against Vali, just face tanking everything. He fails to defend against Ddraig at least twice.

It's not like Vali was helpless or anything, but he was clearly punching uphill while Ddraig was at least confronting him on an even playing field.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

How does his abilities give him a compatibility advantage? Do you mean against other Evil Dragons because Crom with just his dragon abilities I don't see him being hinder by the weather.

Just Lucidrago headcanon. Dulio was somehow able to counter Crom and come out of the fight completely uninjured instead of Crom just staying in character and holding back against the young longinus user(like he did in V16 vs Ise and Vali).

[XFire]

Also compatibility means shite to Crom at this point. He got shot in the face with his historical weakness and didn't seem to particularly care.

[Elmenhilde Lover]

Spoiler for Le Spoils:

The Spectre dragon egg hatched. It's twins! And due to Ophis' influence they wrap their necks around each other and put their tails in their mouths to make the infinity symbol. They have rainbow scales.

Issei's ship Ryuuteimaru is at Grigori inside a cocoon and is becoming smaller. Ophis said she can feel her's, Issei's and Great Red's auras coming from it. Ophis also says Ryuuteimaru is a manifestation of the answer to Great Red's power. Seekvaira also mentions that Ryuuteimaru has like a cavity that can fit one person.

Ophis says DxD G is Issei's final form, but combining it with Great Red's power will make it different.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

I know Ddraig was able to give Crom some damage but it doesn't change the fact that Crom is the stronger one between the two. At least in terms of raw of power. How is Vali the weakest? Volume 24 already confirmed that DxD L is superior to P DxD. Couple with Ddraig being stronger than Issei and it's obvious that Issei is the weakest one. If anything I doubt Issei could beat Crom in True DxD G.

Yeah I have to agree with Elmenhilde Lover doesn't make much sense what your saying. We have seen weaker people beat stronger people in this series, so to say that is especially considering the power different wouldn't even be that great. They are all in the same class so Issei beating Crom with True DxD G isn't out of the realm. Not to mention all the other variables new power-ups the future power-ups if Issei and Crom were to fight again.

That the thing with Crom we have seen him tank way to much stuff including his weakness and it not effect him to say weather is going to stop him.

Those spoilers are very interesting so Ryuuteimaru is the answer to Great Reds power I think I may have a idea how

[Elmenhilde Lover]

Spoiler for S:

AxA is possibly gonna be mecha Ryuuteimaru with Issei piloting it

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Elmenhilde Lover

Spoiler for Le Spoils:

The Spectre dragon egg hatched. It's twins! And due to Ophis' influence they wrap their necks around each other and put their tails in their mouths to make the infinity symbol. They have rainbow scales.

Issei's ship Ryuuteimaru is at Grigori inside a cocoon and is becoming smaller. Ophis said she can feel her's, Issei's and Great Red's auras coming from it. Ophis also says Ryuuteimaru is a manifestation of the answer to Great Red's power. Seekvaira also mentions that Ryuuteimaru has like a cavity that can fit one person.

Ophis says DxD G is Issei's final form, but combining it with Great Red's power will make it different.

Spoiler for lol:

Ophis stop making the babies eat each other

Also they're really going to make Issei a straight up mechanic hero, aren't they?

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yikes, go to sleep for a few hours and the thread leaves you behind.

In general reply to those who objected to my characterization of Vali's fight.....how?

Vali spends the battle trying to control the spacing between him and Crom, and failing as Crom is able to keep up constant pressure. He uses CD to try and slow Crom down -> Crom powers through it. He tries to use his speed advantage -> Crom cross counters him. And so on for pretty much the whole fight we're witness to. And at the end Vali drops to the ground wheezing from exertion while Crom is still just standing around.

Compare to what we see of the Ddraig fight, where Crom is the one defending the attacks. Ddraig techniques let his flames beat Croms, Crom actually tries to deflect Ddraigs Dragon Shot only to take damage to his core, etc.

Crom never even bothers to defend against Vali, just face tanking everything. He fails to defend against Ddraig at least twice.

It's not like Vali was helpless or anything, but he was clearly punching uphill while Ddraig was at least confronting him on an even playing field.

I don't see how Ddraig was doing better against Crom than Vali did. Penetrate was the only thing that seem to be actually working for Ddraig since nothing else did. In terms of physical attacks, Crom was doing more damage, Boost wasn't even enough as Crom overpower that as well. In Vali's case, he had multiple ways to damage Crom. His aura attacks was already doing some damage to the point where Crom's entire body was covered in blood. His dragon flames was nullified by Satan Compression Divider and while Crom did break through Half-Dimension, we did see that he struggled to break through as it was stated blood was dripping from his mouth. The reason why Crom was steady charging at Vali was because he had to due to Vali's speed. While at the same time, constantly enduring Vali's attacks in the process.

[syzorst]

Oh, I forgot one more thing.

Spoiler:

during the fight Crom was provoking Ddraig to use his ultimate flames

[TheWu8128]

The author does like Kaman Rider and Gundam right? So I guess that could happen or he merges with Ryuuteimaru or equip him like Rias does Gasper. Whole lot can be done with that.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

I don't see how Ddraig was doing better against Crom than Vali did. Penetrate was the only thing that seem to be actually working for Ddraig since nothing else did.

Meaning that Ddraig's abilities worked and Vali's didn't. Ergo, doing better. And again, Crom actually tried to block Ddraig's attacks. He just walked into Vali's.

Also did Ddraig do anything that wasn't using Penetrate? It sounded like he was spamming it.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

In terms of physical attacks, Crom was doing more damage, Boost wasn't even enough as Crom overpower that as well.

I never said Ddraig was stronger than Crom? I said he did better than Vali did.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

In Vali's case, he had multiple ways to damage Crom. His aura attacks was already doing some damage to the point where Crom's entire body was covered in blood. His dragon flames was nullified by Satan Compression Divider and while Crom did break through Half-Dimension, we did see that he struggled to break through as it was stated blood was dripping from his mouth.

All of which Crom...completely ignored. Like he never even tried to block any of the attacks. At first I thought that was just his fighting style or something, but in the Ddraig fight he defends himself at least twice. Something he apparently never felt the need to do against Vali.

And him "struggling" underplays the fact that he smashed through so fast Vali (who is explicitly faster than him) was caught off guard. I'd probably bleed too if I smashed through a plane of glass at full sprint.

Originally Posted by Rayzer

The reason why Crom was steady charging at Vali was because he had to due to Vali's speed. While at the same time, constantly enduring Vali's attacks in the process.

Uh, what? You've lost me here, how does Vali being faster equate to Crom being constantly on the offensive? If anything that means Vali should have controlled the engagement, which he failed to do.

And again, the enduring thing is a point against Vali now. If Crom did that with everyone, sure, but he tried to block Ddraig's attacks. Why didn't he bother doing that to Vali's if Vali were of equal power to Ddraig?

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

I don't see how Ddraig was doing better against Crom than Vali did. Penetrate was the only thing that seem to be actually working for Ddraig since nothing else did. In terms of physical attacks, Crom was doing more damage, Boost wasn't even enough as Crom overpower that as well. In Vali's case, he had multiple ways to damage Crom. His aura attacks was already doing some damage to the point where Crom's entire body was covered in blood. His dragon flames was nullified by Satan Compression Divider and while Crom did break through Half-Dimension, we did see that he struggled to break through as it was stated blood was dripping from his mouth. The reason why Crom was steady charging at Vali was because he had to due to Vali's speed. While at the same time, constantly enduring Vali's attacks in the process.

I have to agree with @Xfire on this one. Ddraig was doing better. Even when Crom tried to block Ddraig's punch with his arm, Ddraig's ability to Penetrate bypass that and the damage went straight to the core of Crom's body. Despite Crom's flames being more powerful, Ddraig was able to Penetrate through Crom's flames and made a direct hit on him. All of the attacks that Ddraig did hit the core of Crom's body through Penetrate. So while Ddraig did leave the fight with a broken arm and holes in his wings, we know that Crom definitely didn't leave the fight unscathed.

[XFire]

In the spirit of fairness, I guess I should admit I was wrong about my pet theory that "Crom being stronger than the HD's was only in physical strength". He's flat out superior to them, though i maintain my stance that their ultimate moves could still kill him.

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by XFire

Meaning that Ddraig's abilities worked and Vali's didn't. Ergo, doing better. And again, Crom actually tried to block Ddraig's attacks. He just walked into Vali's.

Also did Ddraig do anything that wasn't using Penetrate? It sounded like he was spamming it.



I never said Ddraig was stronger than Crom? I said he did better than Vali did.



All of which Crom...completely ignored. Like he never even tried to block any of the attacks. At first I thought that was just his fighting style or something, but in the Ddraig fight he defends himself at least twice. Something he apparently never felt the need to do against Vali.

And him "struggling" underplays the fact that he smashed through so fast Vali (who is explicitly faster than him) was caught off guard. I'd probably bleed too if I smashed through a plane of glass at full sprint.



Uh, what? You've lost me here, how does Vali being faster equate to Crom being constantly on the offensive? If anything that means Vali should have controlled the engagement, which he failed to do.

And again, the enduring thing is a point against Vali now. If Crom did that with everyone, sure, but he tried to block Ddraig's attacks. Why didn't he bother doing that to Vali's if Vali were of equal power to Ddraig?

How was Vali's abilities not working? Crom's flames was nullified and he took damaged from every attack Vali hit him with. If anything Crom took more damage from Vali than he did from Ddraig since it was stated Crom's body was covered in blood from the fight with Vali.

Crom didn't ignored Vali's attacks. He had no choice but to take them as he himself stated that he couldn't block or evade them so taking them head on was the only thing he could do if he wanted to get close.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

How was Vali's abilities not working? Crom's flames was nullified and he took damaged from every attack Vali hit him with. If anything Crom took more damage from Vali than he did from Ddraig since it was stated Crom's body was covered in blood from the fight with Vali.

Crom didn't ignored Vali's attacks. He had no choice but to take them as he himself stated that he couldn't block or evade them so taking them head on was the only thing he could do if he wanted to get close.

Because they failed to even slow him down? Crom just broke through everything without stopping. Penetrate let Ddraig straight up breakthrough Crom's flames.

Crom never even tried to block Vali. The punches you could excuse (he was going for a counter), but he just sat there and face tanked the aura blast (the one Vali actually had to charge) and didn't even raise his hands.