Dungeon Defense

[Sparteh]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

But I dun get the need to reestablish the raped route at this point

She said only almost raped before and that was fine, no heavy feeling for anyone

MC obtained her and at the same time saved her from sex slave fate. But then 1 volume later it's revealed that she was beyond saving since long ago and was sex slave all along... And the truth is even worse in that she was violated every night. What's the purpose of this?

This reminds me of that manga where an otaku and a super idol became a couple, but in the middle of the story, it was revealed that the idol was frequently raped by her producer...

I just went... wut?...

This. 100% agree. I get it that author wants to make it dark and want to pull out TG here, but this is just a bad way of trying to copy Ishida-sensei.

[cabman11]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

But I dun get the need to reestablish the raped route at this point

She said only almost raped before and that was fine, no heavy feeling for anyone

MC obtained her and at the same time saved her from sex slave fate. But then 1 volume later it's revealed that she was beyond saving since long ago and was sex slave all along... And the truth is even worse in that she was violated every night. What's the purpose of this?

This reminds me of that manga where an otaku and a super idol became a couple, but in the middle of the story, it was revealed that the idol was frequently raped by her producer...

I just went... wut?...

It's always appropriate to visit the deep dark past no matter what time it is

[silvercrow108]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

But I dun get the need to reestablish the raped route at this point

She said only almost raped before and that was fine, no heavy feeling for anyone

MC obtained her and at the same time saved her from sex slave fate. But then 1 volume later it's revealed that she was beyond saving since long ago and was sex slave all along... And the truth is even worse in that she was violated every night. What's the purpose of this?

This reminds me of that manga where an otaku and a super idol became a couple, but in the middle of the story, it was revealed that the idol was frequently raped by her producer...

I just went... wut?...

is the manga u r talking about is Idol Na Kanojo To Wotaku Na Boku To?
if yes, then i better blacklist that manga in my readlist

[wuhugm]

Originally Posted by silvercrow108

is the manga u r talking about is Idol Na Kanojo To Wotaku Na Boku To?
if yes, then i better blacklist that manga in my readlist

Yes Haha lol~

In Dungeon Defense case, I dun really care though, coz my best girl is Barbatos

[Fiir-chan]

Spoiler for wew lads:

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

Reading it again, it's much more obvious who the target is, but hey I really can't read when I just woke up
Still, I don't want her and by extension her mountains to die...it would be nice that when humans attack her she just snaps, but alas that is more than unlikely in this novel, I purposefully detach myself from these characters to handle loss.

Originally Posted by Greenish Growth

Hmm...is that why she said she had a preference for older men?

That's pretty sad really.

Originally Posted by Sparteh

And I was kinda glad before that we avoided this route... Really, I can't handle sexual abuse and rape of children. Poor child.

Originally Posted by wuhugm

But I dun get the need to reestablish the raped route at this point

She said only almost raped before and that was fine, no heavy feeling for anyone

MC obtained her and at the same time saved her from sex slave fate. But then 1 volume later it's revealed that she was beyond saving since long ago and was sex slave all along... And the truth is even worse in that she was violated every night. What's the purpose of this?

This reminds me of that manga where an otaku and a super idol became a couple, but in the middle of the story, it was revealed that the idol was frequently raped by her producer...

I just went... wut?...

Originally Posted by Sparteh

This. 100% agree. I get it that author wants to make it dark and want to pull out TG here, but this is just a bad way of trying to copy Ishida-sensei.

Originally Posted by cabman11

It's always appropriate to visit the deep dark past no matter what time it is

Didn't you figure out what type of novel you guys were reading at this point yet?

Spoiler for Here, let me help you out:

[wuhugm]

^??? Dun even read "The Prince". Can you be less cryptic? What type of novel do you think this is anyway, O great carinderyeah?

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

^??? Dun even read "The Prince". Can you be less cryptic? What type of novel do you think this is anyway, O great carinderyeah?

The prince was basically a book made by Niccolò Machiavelli. It was believed to be a very evil book which is why his name is associated with evil very often; but he wasn't really evil but rather his views were very...new during the time. He advocates the necessity to use "the ends justify the means" type of mentality when there is no possible way to achieve a happy ending through happy means. He was basically one of the first pragmatists in this world to have guts to write about it in an pro-idealistic society.

[wuhugm]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

The prince was basically a book made by Niccolò Machiavelli. It was believed to be a very evil book which is why his name is associated with evil very often; but he wasn't really evil but rather his views were very...new during the time. He advocates the necessity to use "the ends justify the means" type of mentality when there is no possible way to achieve a happy ending through happy means. He was basically one of the first pragmatists in this world to have guts to write about it in an pro-idealistic society.

Thanks~ Also read some of the reviews. Basically it's about rulers perpetuating authority by using any means possible.

So what's carinderyeah trying to say here? We knew about this from day 1. What's the correlation with the rehashing of Laura's trauma?

Was he trying to say that it's so dark so anything can happen? Sorry to say but to me, Dungeon Defense is in the tame category. Clearly carinderyeah hasn't known true insanity yet.

TL also said about Dantalian's descent into madness... But he's mad from the start. He doesn't care about people, nothing that he does from this point will add to his insanity level.

What next? The reveal that Adventurer Riff did rape Lapis who disguised herself into human?

[Fiir-chan]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

/snip/

you mean you also already know that the series is about not taking everything at face value and that somewhere in the book, all the characters are being rused. clearly the readers aren't spared from the ruses. you meant this right?

so Laura saying that she prefers men in their 50's and the like and her lying about her being 'nearly' raped by her step siblings, brothers, and parents, made you play it off because it was played off in vol 2. and when it comes up in vol 3 as something that totally happened, you all flip your shit? come on, you guys said you expected that since vol 1.

[wuhugm]

Originally Posted by carinderyeah

you mean you also already know that the series is about not taking everything at face value and that somewhere in the book, all the characters are being rused. clearly the readers aren't spared from the ruses. you meant this right?

so Laura saying that she prefers men in their 50's and the like and her lying about her being 'nearly' raped by her step siblings, brothers, and parents, made you play it off because it was played off in vol 2. and when it comes up in vol 3 as something that totally happened, you all flip your shit? come on, you guys said you expected that since vol 1.

Except the only people being rused are the readers.

Regardless this twist exists or not, Dantalian wouldn't be affected. He only wants Laura's ability as a general, he's gonna destroy those who made her slave either way. She was a slave so most readers predicted she was abused somewhat, maybe even sexually. But then it was played as attempts. Again, either way, Dantalian wouldn't care.

Then even without touching that subject again, her talent bloomed, affection was risen. It was no longer needed.

I can get it if her past was kept hidden thoroughly or her true past revealed from the start. But it didn't... For what or whose sake?

For whom exactly this ruse is for? Only for the readers. Which makes it pointless.

[Fiir-chan]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

But I dun get the need to reestablish the raped route at this point

She said only almost raped before and that was fine, no heavy feeling for anyone

MC obtained her and at the same time saved her from sex slave fate. But then 1 volume later it's revealed that she was beyond saving since long ago and was sex slave all along... And the truth is even worse in that she was violated every night. What's the purpose of this?

I just went... wut?...

Originally Posted by wuhugm

She was a slave so most readers predicted she was abused somewhat, maybe even sexually. But then it was played as attempts. Again, either way, Dantalian wouldn't care.

Then even without touching that subject again, her talent bloomed, affection was risen. It was no longer needed.

I can get it if her past was kept hidden thoroughly or her true past revealed from the start. But it didn't... For what or whose sake?

This points here are my problems, it isn't pointless. Also, should have tagged Sparteh along with this conversation. I feel like I am coming along antagonizing you and his' points of view but I'm not.

From my speculation because of what Lapis did after learning about this, it will be be a continuing sub-plot line. SO concluding it like this: it is a deserved plot to follow but not needed for the story, is not really good as fellow fans and readers and it is hitting buttons for me.

[wuhugm]

Sparteh? What's that?

Anyway, chill out mate~

Like I said, at this point of time, above anything else, this twist only serves to shock the readers.

We will see in a few chapters whether this twist really does it's job.

Coz let's face it, this is a big deal
I don't know what Korean fanbase is like, but in Japan, like in Kannagi manga case, the author got bullied into hiatus for doing something far less tamer than this

[Breimn]

Koreans love their drama and/or NTR shit. It is literally everywhere.

[Sparteh]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Sparteh? What's that?

Anyway, chill out mate~

Like I said, at this point of time, above anything else, this twist only serves to shock the readers.

We will see in a few chapters whether this twist really does it's job.

Coz let's face it, this is a big deal
I don't know what Korean fanbase is like, but in Japan, like in Kannagi manga case, the author got bullied into hiatus for doing something far less tamer than this

Ehh, it is my name...

Anyway, I just dropped my personal opinion that it is not up with my taste. There is no reason to be harsh here. Everyone has their opinions.
Personally, for me 2 things mixed up into 1 here. First, I dislike physical and sexual violence against children. 2nd, the fact that authors simply can't write a good dark story without it. Seriously, I like dark themed stories, but it is nearly impossible to find a well written dark story where author manages to avoid it or put it in such way that it would not be annoying. From all modern dark stories I have read especially from East (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) stories I can only think about 3 with which ether did not have them or put in not cliche way.

[wuhugm]

^Lol~ Hello Sparteh~ I thought carinderyeah mistyped "spoiler" or something

I'm waiting for more chapters to see whether it was worth it to hit the raped trap again despite managed to avoid it once.

^^J-Dorama is the same...

Contemporary shows and anime stuffs target different demography

[ungururuh]

@carinderyeah

I don't know exactly what you would be implying by "flipping a shit" because that reveal had a very mild effect and that is saying much coming from a guy that hates rape or abuse with a passion, even more then murder. Literally if I would encounter those types of scenarios I would stand up walk in circles and fume for an hour.

The readers simply don't get a chance to connect with that character till that point in time because she had so little presence or influence in the story and when the reveal happens it is simply used as a pointless argument in a pointless situation for a pointless action. I mean, the logic that Lapis applies to justify using that type of trauma is so cringe worthy that it would be best quickly forgotten. It is clear that the author has a basic understanding on human psychology, but I can't exactly fault him for that.



As of right now to me personally V1 was a good read, and that says a lot because in my book "good" means a lot considering that would make the book part of the 1% that I deem worthy to be in that category. You can see that it was refined a couple of times before publishing.
V1 had a clear idea of what it desired to achieve and it did so marvelously. The character interactions was good, the plot was tight and there were very few mistakes.

Unfortunately, and I should say like always, things never last and as such you could see a degradation in quality. It might not be as obvious to the untrained eye but the inevitable did happen.
V2 was a interesting read with a good but shaky conclusion. Do not mistakenly think that this might stem from the "loli" part of the novel because I personally do not have those types of "labels" cemented in my head and as such I do not score a novel based on those type of prejudgments, neither positively or negatively. What I look the most for in novels that I deem "good" is "out of character" actions or thought patterns which mostly translates indirectly to readers as plot holes (and yes, they could be small or large ones).
As it stands, the leap that the MC makes as a personality and character logic from V1 to V2 is simply poorly handled. There is no apparent reason for the big changes in his train of thought and to me it mostly seems that the author simply lost his previous grasp of MC character because of a "writing pause" (or something like that). His actions, in order to achieve his desired conclusion, aren't as convincing and some are even logically faulty.

The most obvious flaw is the way the MC is recounting his story. What should have been the main attraction, the soul of V2, was handled very poorly.
What were your first thoughts when you started reading the volume? What were people speculating when the prologue and the first chapter were posted? The first idea that popped up in your head, wasn't it that the MC had started to spin a thick web of lies, misinformation, half truths mixed with the real events to push Barbatos buttons? And weren't you trying to poke holes and figure out this marvelous puzzle before the conclusion and real facts were made clear by the author?
Yet you get to the end of the volume and the only thing that is made clear is that the MC was simply stating the facts as they occurred and the only "special" thing in his long monologue was that he omitted how he settled the misunderstanding with Lapis at the end.

I don't know how it was for you but for me it was a "WTF" moment, which would have been fine and all if what he told Barbatos wasn't so damn incriminatory. I mean, even a two digit IQ person can deduce from less of what he told her that he was colluding to some degree with Lapis. Wasn't he a schemer? Wasn't he "intelligent"?
Emotionally distressed?, don't even try to think about that because he was recounting the events after he settled and made his conclusion.
So the hell was he trying to gain by being truthful all of a sudden? Apparently nothing, nothing at all, and the way Barbatos responded to his truthful story was even more mind boggling. Isn't she the "controlling type"? I mean it is eluded that she was betrayed a coupled of times in her long lifespan, and her personal army being composed of only "marionettes" that she has total control over, what does that tell you? The fact that she didn't react in any way to what the MC told her is puzzling to say the least, I mean, you would at least think that she would have tried to leverage what he "confessed" to her against him in order to fulfill her control cravings.

V3 so far has stepped a level lower, the character feel robotic and their previous personality appears to have almost gone. What was released so far is like a collection of facts that a friend would give you when you asked him a question.
"Well hey you, what you've been up to lately?" and he starts :"Well I've been to the mall, the large blue one near the center. I bought milk, eggs and condoms. When I arrived at the cashier the girl there started looking that certain way at me. I couldn't tell if it's was cause of the eggs or because of my charming smile. O yea, and I saw a train running a cat over, apparently that happened cause it was black."

[Sparteh]

^ +1 to this.


Well as a person who reads a lot I can say that compared to western countries, China and Korea, Japan still manages to surprise me. The moment when you think they can't think of anything weirder, they do. Compared to children worm rape or tentacle child brain rape (literally) this novel is as light as a sun.

[Sizaki]

I think it's better if we don't try to debate the matter of the 'rape event' too much. Or else this thread will get locked as my other thread "Nobunaga’s Imouto is My Wife", where we all talked about the unicorn having a good gangbang.

[Sparteh]

Originally Posted by Sizaki

I think it's better if we don't try to debate the matter of the 'rape event' too much. Or else this thread will get locked as my other thread "Nobunaga’s Imouto is My Wife", where we all talked about the unicorn having a good gangbang.

Wut? Just to make sure, do you mean literally?

[wuhugm]

^Emm, the unicorn was his wife who got cursed or something and needs horses "life energy" to turn human again iirc

^^^^I like vol 2. But I saw the twist from chapter 2 when realizing the format of that volume being reminiscence while talking to Barbatos. So not really surprising.