Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[suiken]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I'd rejoice.

That was a quick response. LOL

But yeah killing off Lacus is more logical but they got the wrong person killed.

[Deadpool2000]

Sure you mean "logical" and not "make me happier"?

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by monster

No, because Kira never promised any other character anything like he promised Flay. It is because of their past together and the way her character developed that made her death more meaningful, especially with respect to Kira. So yes, we did see how he cared for her and wanted to protect her and it hurt him that she couldn't be saved and it is emotional to the viewer as well because we saw how Flay never got the chance to make her peace in person with Kira.
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Okay then explain something to me what's if you can definitely explain this with a good enough answer than i'll stop and that is why was the revenge seed mode plot device needed when kira already new he had to kill rau because of the incident at the ultimate coordinator lab and when kira is at this point in the series is a better pilot than Rau and could activate seed mode at will and lets not for get he already had more than enough reason to beat rau at that point as well and also the reason why it was used in the last episode of seed i'll stop

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by suiken

That was a quick response. LOL

But yeah killing off Lacus is more logical but they got the wrong person killed.

While I dislike Lacus various reasons, I don't think killing her off would be a logical decision for the story.

Unless SEED was directed by Gen Urobuchi.

[Der Langrisser]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

Okay then explain something to me what's if you can definitely explain this with a good enough answer than i'll stop and that is why was the revenge seed mode plot device needed when kira already new he had to kill rau because of the incident at the ultimate coordinator lab and when kira is at this point in the series is a better pilot than Rau and could activate seed mode at will and lets not for get he already had more than enough reason to beat rau at that point as well and also the reason why it was used in the last episode of seed i'll stop

Because even being the Ultimate Coordinator, Kira struggles against Providence's Dragoons, even in SEED mode, the Freedom took quite a few hits.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Der Langrisser

Because even being the Ultimate Coordinator, Kira struggles against Providence's Dragoons, even in SEED mode, the Freedom took quite a few hits.

he didn't go into seed mode until after flay died, so we don't know what would have happened in calm seed mode instead we see what happens in revenge seed mode where he is fighting with anger he might've fought better in normal seed mode than revenge seed mode

[Deadpool2000]

Haven't seen the show in a while but are you sure he wasn't Seed? I am fairly certain he was.

Also, Kira didn't need Flay to die to win the fight... The audience did. Kira had just spent the last episodes preaching non lethal take downs and the audience needed a nice reminder why this shouldn't apply to Rau.

It also has that nice symbolism of leaving his childish connections behind when he becomes a man type thing coming of age stories always like to have...

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by suiken

That was a quick response. LOL

But yeah killing off Lacus is more logical but they got the wrong person killed.

Destiny would have probably ended with Durandal winning and it is possible that a treaty between the three factions may have been broken a lot earlier. Of course, this would have changed everything about destiny

Also, its not more logical to kill Lacus off. That is just what you want.

[aeriolewinters]

It also has that nice symbolism of leaving his childish connections behind when he becomes a man type thing coming of age stories always like to have...

Except that Destiny makes it damn sure that Kira doesn't come of Age.

[Rising Dragon]

Shadow is correct in his statement that Kira did not enter SEED mode until Flay's death. The Freedom still took a beating, but it was no longer a one-sided match at that point.

[monster]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

Okay then explain something to me what's if you can definitely explain this with a good enough answer than i'll stop and that is why was the revenge seed mode plot device needed when kira already new he had to kill rau because of the incident at the ultimate coordinator lab and when kira is at this point in the series is a better pilot than Rau and could activate seed mode at will and lets not for get he already had more than enough reason to beat rau at that point as well and also the reason why it was used in the last episode of seed i'll stop

I don't know if it's necessary, but that's just the way it happened, and it worked, so I have no complaint.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Except that Destiny makes it damn sure that Kira doesn't come of Age.

What do you mean?

[suiken]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Destiny would have probably ended with Durandal winning and it is possible that a treaty between the three factions may have been broken a lot earlier. Of course, this would have changed everything about destiny

Also, its not more logical to kill Lacus off. That is just what you want.

With a complicated world like gundam's (both UC and AU), you never know. How many times in the UC timeline Earth got involve with a large scale conflict? Zeon got obliterated but other factions like Zanscare and Crossbone Vanguards are established.

Orb union may have been collapse without Lacus or it may continue in the hands of Kira with Flay supporting him. Another one is establishing a new factions founded by Kira or another person.

And yes, it's more logical killing off Lacus. Take Code Geass as an example. Euphemia is in exact clothes of Lacus where they are both the key for a peace treaty. The death of Lacus may have caused more conflict that may result a change from the event of Destiny. But that should have happened earlier in the series, not in the final episode or the story would feel rushed.

[monster]

Originally Posted by suiken

And yes, it's more logical killing off Lacus. Take Code Geass as an example. Euphemia is in exact clothes of Lacus where they are both the key for a peace treaty.

So what is the logic here?

The death of Lacus may have caused more conflict that may result a change from the event of Destiny.

The effect is potentially bigger than that. The death of Lacus in SEED could've meant Earth's victory at the cost of the annihilation of the PLANTs or, worse, the PLANTs' victory at the cost of the annihilation of life on Earth.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Also, Kira didn't need Flay to die to win the fight... The audience did. Kira had just spent the last episodes preaching non lethal take downs and the audience needed a nice reminder why this shouldn't apply to Rau.

did we really need that though, i mean through out the fight Rau is basicly preaching to kira about how humanity needing to die before and after flays death, did we really need a reminder that kira's no killing thing shouldn't apply to him, even at the point where he went completely crazy and started attacking every one

It also has that nice symbolism of leaving his childish connections behind when he becomes a man type thing coming of age stories always like to have...

How? i would really like to know how it is symbolism that, especially following the Newtype Ghost scene after flay dies?

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by suiken

With a complicated world like gundam's (both UC and AU), you never know. How many times in the UC timeline Earth got involve with a large scale conflict? Zeon got obliterated but other factions like Zanscare and Crossbone Vanguards are established.

Orb union may have been collapse without Lacus or it may continue in the hands of Kira with Flay supporting him. Another one is establishing a new factions founded by Kira or another person.

And yes, it's more logical killing off Lacus. Take Code Geass as an example. Euphemia is in exact clothes of Lacus where they are both the key for a peace treaty. The death of Lacus may have caused more conflict that may result a change from the event of Destiny. But that should have happened earlier in the series, not in the final episode or the story would feel rushed.

actually Lacus not same as Euphemia
one puppet try to be leader with all her comrade not respecting her or following her order because of her but because they are scared of her father/family

while other already leader one of strongest faction with many loyal comrade who ready to die for her

kill Euphemia father/family and remove her from Britannia power -> no one will follow her but Suzaku

kill Lacus father/family and remove her from ZAFT power -> guess what happened

killing real leader give a lot bigger blow to organization than puppet leader

[Deadpool2000]

Yes, the audience needs a reminder that this is not merely an idiological argument: Rau is evil and irredeemable. Flay's death drives that home perfectly, and punctuates a break in the fight.

And Kira's childish crush on Flay IS his last remaining link. With her death, and his "conversation" afterwards, Kira's transformation is finally done.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Yes, the audience needs a reminder that this is not merely an idiological argument: Rau is evil and irredeemable. Flay's death drives that home perfectly, and punctuates a break in the fight.

so him going insane during the fight and attacking friend and foe alike doesn't drive that home either honestly if that was all that was needed then we didn't need the preaching nor him going crazy, heck i don't even think kira brought up flay to rau at all after her death and with kira just saying "people aren't like that" and "your wrong" neither did Rau bring up the lifeboat to torment him for that matter, honestly if flays death was cut from the episode and it just the part that Rau was attacking the Eternal and just show kira coming in with seed mode activated to save it the episode would have probably played out the exact same regardless if flay died or not and i doubt anyone would have known the difference, heck then they could have had the epilogue from the special edition play in the original show

And Kira's childish crush on Flay IS his last remaining link. With her death, and his "conversation" afterwards, Kira's transformation is finally done.

yeah that's his last remaining link a link that was severed back during their conversation in orb and its not like he still has anything else from his childhood *cough*birdie*cough*

[monster]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

he went completely crazy and started attacking every one

Originally Posted by shadow1296

him going insane during the fight and attacking friend and foe alike doesn't

When did he do that?

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by monster

When did he do that?

sorry my mistake i forgot that the pilot of the bird gundam was still alive i thought the damage to the dual was caused by him, i remember the buster being completely crippled by the providence's dragoons and the dual being completely fine then the dual showing up damaged on the eternal and i forgot about the bird one was still alive and the dual was damged by that fight, still doesn't change we are being beat over the head with how evil rau is that entire episode

[monster]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

still doesn't change we are being beat over the head with how evil rau is that entire episode

Yes, and the cherry on top is by killing Flay. Or maybe that's the cake because, aside from her, the only other people Rau killed in that episode were regular Earth/TSA pilots. That's no more evil (by conventional war standard) than what everyone else were doing, aside from the people operating the nuclear missiles/GENESIS.