Shin High School DxD Volume 4 Discussion

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by K.O.

Hades went down respectfully, Angra not so much

Ingvild was set up in an intentionally similar manner to Asia in Shin 1. She’s better than Valerie at least...

A lady to be saved? For lucky issei doesn’t see ingvild as a sister. Except that, she is more interesting for her bloodline and powers. A female version of Vali.

[godz]

Originally Posted by K.O.

Hades went down respectfully, Angra not so much

Ingvild was set up in an intentionally similar manner to Asia in Shin 1. She’s better than Valerie at least...

But Valerie has the excuse that she is not in the harem and could develop better in a spin off centered on Gasper, Ingvild instead is that of Queen of Issei, the demon that works miracles that scares the gods.

[K.O.]

Originally Posted by godz

But Valerie has the excuse that she is not in the harem and could develop better in a spin off centered on Gasper, Ingvild instead is that of Queen of Issei, the demon that works miracles that scares the gods.

At least Ingvild has been relevant. She was pivotal to this fight as well as her debut volume against Nyx. We’ve seen that she can hold her own in a fight. And we’re getting some glimpses of her daily life in training, school, and Devil jobs.

We have no idea what Valerie’s doing. She can’t use her Holy Grail beyond healing, and even that is inferior to Asia’s ordinary SG, so the Longinus is just wasted on her. She got Incinerate Anthem during Trihexa’s rampage and did nothing with it. We’ve never even seen her basic vampire abilities. She was nominally a member of Rias’ team, but she doesn’t even get lines during their matches with Vali and Issei. You can’t tell me that Ishibumi cares about this character.

[Malbolge]

Ingvild is a slow burn type of character. She's there for the long term outlook. I think Ishi even said something to the effect of while she was introduced in the first volume of Shin, her dedicated volume would be one of the last.

It feels like you people would have tore apart girls like Rossweisse if you were around back when she was first introduced. Always wanting immediate gratification. DxD has always been an exercise in long-term storytelling.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Malbolge

Ingvild is a slow burn type of character. She's there for the long term outlook. I think Ishi even said something to the effect of while she was introduced in the first volume of Shin, her dedicated volume would be one of the last.

It feels like you people would have tore apart girls like Rossweisse if you were around back when she was first introduced. Always wanting immediate gratification. DxD has always been an exercise in long-term storytelling.

Forget a small detail, this is the last DxD arc confirmed by the author ... also when Rosseweise was presented there were only 6 characters in the harem, now with Ingvild there are 15.
If you are not a pro-active character with so many characters, you end up being overshadowed by history and more when old characters remain the same or more active (look at rias or xenovia) leaving less space to grow.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

Forget a small detail, this is the last DxD arc confirmed by the author ... also when Rosseweise was presented there were only 6 characters in the harem, now with Ingvild there are 15.
If you are not a pro-active character with so many characters, you end up being overshadowed by history and more when old characters remain the same or more active (look at rias or xenovia) leaving less space to grow.

Ingvild is doing a great work that is not even comparable to the others characters at the beginning, considering that she is a rookie and could defeat easily those devils produced by Lilith. Adding the fact that she increased the power of issei to defeat Nyx and now that of Vali and issei for Hades and Angra, acting as support in the most important and dangerous mission of DxD until now. Her actions are incredible. Now will be even join in the tournament.
She can become the strongest girl in the harem only learning to use her power maou class. Without count the ability of leviathan and Longinus.

A lot of character that were costantanely present or/and active have received a volume after a lot of time (Rossweisse, Irina, Xenovia,Asia).

Watch Asia that could only be protect and to heal for all the story and was not so relevant for the fights, only after vol20 she received the BxB.

The difference with all the others characters in the harem is that Ingvild is the queen of issei, user of a Longinus of high class and descendant of Leviathan. She is not Roygun, Yasaka, elmenheilde, le fay or kunou that for their position or role are not relevant.
Only her bloodline gives to her an important position. It has been nominated even by Zekram in the list of young devils to not ignore.

If she would not so important, ishibumi would not mention her, or describes her as incredible and monstrous in shin 2/3, ishibumi could easily introduce a boring character without nothing of special to be forget

[Malbolge]

Originally Posted by godz

Forget a small detail, this is the last DxD arc confirmed by the author ...

That is such a non-argument. Can you tell me how many volumes are left? How close are we to the end?

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Malbolge

That is such a non-argument. Can you tell me how many volumes are left? How close are we to the end?

Indeed, everyone thought that after Hades the next villains would be the malebranche and now there is the first invasion of ExE. Ishibumi sometimes is too imprevedible

[godz]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Ingvild is doing a great work that is not even comparable to the others characters at the beginning, considering that she is a rookie and could defeat easily those devils produced by Lilith. Adding the fact that she increased the power of issei to defeat Nyx and now that of Vali and issei for Hades and Angra, acting as support in the most important and dangerous mission of DxD until now. Her actions are incredible. Now will be even join in the tournament.
She can become the strongest girl in the harem only learning to use her power maou class. Without count the ability of leviathan and Longinus.

A lot of character that were costantanely present or/and active have received a volume after a lot of time (Rossweisse, Irina, Xenovia,Asia).

Watch Asia that could only be protect and heal for all the series and was not so relevant for the fights, only after vol20 she received the BxB.

The difference with all the others characters in the harem is that Ingvild is the queen of issei, user of a Longinus of high class and descendant of Leviathan. She is not Roygun, Yasaka, elmenheilde, le fay or kunou that for their position or role are not relevant.
Only her bloodline gives to her an important position. It has been nominated even by Zekram in the list of young devils to not ignore.

If she would not so important, ishibumi would not mention her, or describes her as incredible and monstrous in shin 2/3, ishibumi could easily introduce a boring character without nothing of special to be forget

For my part I feel very basic ingvild character for all the potential it has, and it does not help much that much of the time is sleeping.

I do not consider his attack on the new demons created by hades to be valid, because in shin 1 it was made clear that the great majority until they have a great power are completely newbies who did not even know how to make a shield and that therefore even a middle class demon I could defeat them as express kiba.

Although these Devils had talent, they didn’t have enough knowledge and experience to fully utilise it, focusing only on their Demonic power. I could only see some who were able to use it defensively. If this was the case…handling them would be easier than Middle-class Devils. If this were one-on-one, a bunch of experienced MIddle-class Devils and Angels would be enough to deal with them. We wouldn’t have any problems as long as we could dodge their simple, but powerful Demonic power attacks. We could also get on the offensive as soon as we saw an opening as they didn’t really have any means to defend themselves.

So to finish, I hope that Ingvild will be given more space to grow and thus meet the expectations of his position as a talent.

@malbolge, if we use as an example the longest arch of dxd so far, there would be 7 or 8 volumes ... as for shin dxd 12 we could see the end of the history of issei.

this using the length of the arcs before this one of mediation.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

For my part I feel very basic ingvild character for all the potential it has, and it does not help much that much of the time is sleeping.

I do not consider his attack on the new demons created by hades to be valid, because in shin 1 it was made clear that the great majority until they have a great power are completely newbies who did not even know how to make a shield and that therefore even a middle class demon I could defeat them as express kiba.

Although these Devils had talent, they didnÂ’t have enough knowledge and experience to fully utilise it, focusing only on their Demonic power. I could only see some who were able to use it defensively. If this was the caseÂ…handling them would be easier than Middle-class Devils. If this were one-on-one, a bunch of experienced MIddle-class Devils and Angels would be enough to deal with them. We wouldnÂ’t have any problems as long as we could dodge their simple, but powerful Demonic power attacks. We could also get on the offensive as soon as we saw an opening as they didnÂ’t really have any means to defend themselves.

So to finish, I hope that Ingvild will be given more space to grow and thus meet the expectations of his position as a talent.

I wonder if you have read my comment seriously.

What do you want that she does? Defeat a god? You are superficial.

She is only a rookie that only in shin 2 someone teached to her use her demoniac power and watch

“…Just by teaching her a bit on how to use her magic, she managed to do this.”
Rossweisse-san who was also there added.,
“…A genius, huh? She managed to show her knowledge in all elements starting from the water element. Right now, she’s putting them into use by making a form out of the magic.” (

Then, in shin 3

Ouryuu, who was scolding her - saw a giant water dragon that appeared behind Ingvild Leviathan who woke up. It is about thirty meters.
Ouryuu quickly realized that it was built with tremendous demonic power. The water dragon has an overwhelming aura and is breathtaking.
Although the number of days has not passed long since the previous training camp, the mass of the aura is several steps higher than that manifested at the time.
Even while maintaining the scale of this demonic power, Ingvild Leviathan was calm and asked Ravel Phoenix
"Hey, what should I do?"
While overwhelmed by the water dragon that was manifested by Ingvild Leviathan, Ravel Phoenix says.
"...... Ingvild-sama, please release the power as long as the demonic power does not fade. By the way, how many of that scale can you create with this scale of demonic power? ”
“ It doesn't use that much aura, so can I get more than ten, I think? ”
Ingvild Leviathan replied like that.
──You don't use that much aura.
............ Just kidding, right? Ouryuu had to laugh bitterly while his face goes rigid.

She could easily do a gigant sea serpent of 30 meters with an incredible aura and in succession others 10, not even Sona can do it. Her grow rate is incredible.

You donÂ’t consider not valid defeats all those demon because they are rookie? Ingvild what is it? She is a rookie too and could defeat several of them easily.

How is not useful? She increased the power of issei making him able to defeat Nyx, a goddess, then, she supported issei and vali increasing their power to defeat HADES in the most important and dangerous mission of ever. Even at the beginning, when they were against 25,000 demons, she was helping even if she is a rookie.

This is more incredible than everyone other characters at the beginning. In the beginning of the history Kiba and Koneko has fought only with some exorcist human of Low level that were even shit worse and Freed. Except Riser and Yubellana, all the peerage of Riser in the RG was fodder.

Now, confront her achievements and actions with the others at the beginning, because she is a rookie as issei in the first volume, but her actions are more incredible and is a lot of more powerful. Not with that of the others now.

[Malbolge]

Originally Posted by godz

@malbolge, if we use as an example the longest arch of dxd so far, there would be 7 or 8 volumes ... as for shin dxd 12 we could see the end of the history of issei.

this using the length of the arcs before this one of mediation.

But this arc officially started with volume 22 of DxD… So, by your "logic" we are already at 8 volumes for this arc, and the end should be imminent, when it is obviously not the case.

So, in other words, you don't know. So stop trying to pretend time is any sort of issue.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

I wonder if you have read my comment seriously.

What do you want that she does? Defeat a god? You are superficial.

She is only a rookie that only in shin 2 someone teached to her use her demoniac power and watch



Then, in shin 3



She could easily do a gigant sea serpent of 30 meters with an incredible aura and in succession others 10, not even Sona can do it. Her grow rate is incredible.

You donÂ’t consider not valid defeats all those demon because they are rookie? Ingvild what is it? She is a rookie too and could defeat several of them easily.

How is not useful? She increased the power of issei making him able to defeat Nyx, a goddess, then, she supported issei and vali increasing their power to defeat HADES in the most important and dangerous mission of ever. Even at the beginning, when they were against 25,000 demons, she was helping even if she is a rookie.

This is more incredible than everyone other characters at the beginning. In the beginning of the history Kiba and Koneko has fought only with some exorcist human of Low level that were even shit worse and Freed. Except Riser and Yubellana, all the peerage of Riser in the RG was fodder.

Now, confront her achievements and actions with the others at the beginning, because she is a rookie as issei in the first volume, but her actions are more incredible and is a lot of more powerful. Not with that of the others now.

I know that Ingvild is a character with extraordinary potential, it was even said that he could be a genius bigger than Vali.
but I did not refer to his potential or exploits, I mean the panorama of his character ... to all the concepts that make the character Ingvild and I find his character as Asia at the beginning, a non-active personality that has worked in These 4 volumes as a support character, that was my initial question.

I don't know where else you got it from my words, if you think comparing it with Asia from the beginning is calling it useless then you are wrong ... Asia was always useful, for example she gave him the crucifix and holy water that helped Issei to defeat Raiser.

@malebolge You take out my context words, I want Ingvild to give him more scenes as they did with the initial harem girls at the beginning ... also because I feel that Ravel does the role of Queen better than Ingvild that only has power.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

I know that Ingvild is a character with extraordinary potential, it was even said that he could be a genius bigger than he was.
but I did not refer to his potential or exploits, I mean the panorama of his character ... to all the concepts that make the character Ingvild and I find his character as Asia at the beginning, a non-active personality that has worked in These 4 volumes as a support character, that was my initial question.

I don't know where else you got it from my words, if you think comparing it with Asia from the beginning is calling it useless then you are wrong ... Asia was always useful, for example she gave him the crucifix and holy water that helped Issei to defeat Raiser.

@malebolge You take out my context words, I want Ingvild to give him more scenes as they did with the initial harem girls at the beginning ... also because I feel that Ravel does the role of Queen better than Ingvild that only has power.

Unfortunately we have to wait that she will be healed from her conditions to be more active, but I think that will happen soon if she will fight with Belial team.

Even if she is a support, is not even comparable with others.

Asia gived to issei those thing to help him to defeat Riser, While Ingvild fought against a lot of devils and help him to defeat gods. Big difference.

About the queen position, she is the last arrived in the peerage, is not much active and has a lot of things to learn. Why should control and lead the team now? We have to give her time to learn. With calm.
While Ravel is issei’s manager since the volume 11 and has a lot of experience, considering that she control more the harem than Rias that should be her duty

[godz]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Unfortunately we have to wait that she will be healed from her conditions to be more active, but I think that will happen soon if she will fight with Belial team.

Even if she is a support, is not even comparable with others.

Asia gived to issei those thing to help him to defeat Riser, While Ingvild fought against a lot of devils and help him to defeat gods. Big difference.

About the queen position, she is the last arrived in the peerage, is not much active and has a lot of things to learn. Why should control and lead the team now? We have to give her time to learn. With calm.
While Ravel is issei’s manager since the volume 11 and has a lot of experience, considering that she control more the harem than Rias that should be her duty

Ravel for me is the vivid image of the queen piece that was explained to us at the beginning, the right hand of Issei and who has been most helpful since Issei became upper class ... more than Rias as you said, maybe That's why I'm asking Ingvild a lot in such a short time.

but I will say the same as I said before, I want to see more Ingvild scenes to see firsthand its development as the most "important" piece of issei's nobility ... it has the talent and potential.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by godz

Ravel for me is the vivid image of the queen piece that was explained to us at the beginning, the right hand of Issei and who has been most helpful since Issei became upper class ... more than Rias as you said, maybe That's why I'm asking Ingvild a lot in such a short time.

but I will say the same as I said before, I want to see more Ingvild scenes to see firsthand its development as the most "important" piece of issei's nobility ... it has the talent and potential.

Next volume could be a good one for Ingvild. It may be Ravels volume but Ingvild will likely be stepping into her queen role for the battle. So she should receive a lot of development

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

Ravel for me is the vivid image of the queen piece that was explained to us at the beginning, the right hand of Issei and who has been most helpful since Issei became upper class ... more than Rias as you said, maybe That's why I'm asking Ingvild a lot in such a short time.

but I will say the same as I said before, I want to see more Ingvild scenes to see firsthand its development as the most "important" piece of issei's nobility ... it has the talent and potential.

Personally Ravel is one of the my two favourite girls for me, for how much she does for issei every day, trying to do always her best. If you want to read, one time I’ve even written an argumentation

she is a girl very mature, demonstration that she never fight for issei like the others girls, or obbligate him to do Ecchi Things. When she sees Issei doing something of ecchi with other girls, she doesn’t interrupt or become jealous or hit issei (most of the others do that), she instead apologises for the interruption, then she never show jealousy and does something of stupid like hit issei.
Her 1st objective is make issei happy, making his life better and less heavy, and be the more possible useful to him, without think to her personal happiness. Very altruistic.
She does always her best, without stop to better herself, studying hard for issei. And even when she did her best, she thinks that is not enough even when she has been incredible (Dulio’s game).
Even if she is very young, she has assumed the role of oppai dragon’s manager, both in public and private, a thing very hard for an international celebrity like issei with a lot of commitments. It seems that she does an excellent work because issei has never problem or seems tired. She assuming the role of issei’s queen, leading the team in an international tournament, leading both the team and issei’s peerage, trying to improve all the members (Xenovia with Excalibur).

I can understand you with Ingvild, she and ravel are my favourite girls. Maybe you have noted this with the first in the previous comments ��. Especially the design of Ingvild is my favourite among all the girls. but we have to be patient, give to her time to growth and learn, ishibumi will do his work.

[godz]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Next volume could be a good one for Ingvild. It may be Ravels volume but Ingvild will likely be stepping into her queen role for the battle. So she should receive a lot of development

The next volume has me interested because I could see three female characters shine, Ravel, Ingvild and Roygun ... and you don't see in that volume events as important as the end of the alliance of hell and the beginning of the ExE threat so that they overshadow them as it happened with Le Fay (I would have been very excited if Le Fay kissed Issei, I didn't care if it was on the cheek)

I would personally like to see Diehsuer be defeated by Ravel or Roygun's strategy,since diehsuer has a firepower lower than issei.

@Giuseppe1234 I completely agree with your Ravel analysis.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by godz

Ravel for me is the vivid image of the queen piece that was explained to us at the beginning, the right hand of Issei and who has been most helpful since Issei became upper class ... more than Rias as you said, maybe That's why I'm asking Ingvild a lot in such a short time.

but I will say the same as I said before, I want to see more Ingvild scenes to see firsthand its development as the most "important" piece of issei's nobility ... it has the talent and potential.

She really doesn't seem to me as Issei's right hand. A very vital servant of his but not really fitting into the role of Issei's right hand. She's his manager and strategist and it's obvious she has played a more significant role lately than the rest of his servants. But that's not the same as being someone's right-hand man in my view.

[cyberdemon]

Kinda interested in how all of you think they’ll outwit diehauser?

My guess, 2 part strategy.

Part 1: numbers. Rias will join her team into Issei’s. This gives them a numbers advantage that will make it harder for Diehauser to plan a battle beforehand. They start rumors that Rias will takeover the role of queen for the battle.

Part 2: Ingvild. She will be the ACTUAL queen for the battle. Rias was meant to take his attention off of her. Too little is known about her to the public. Thus it is harder to plan a strategy against her. So even if he realizes part 1, he will have very little to use. Her song might be known due to her part in the defeat of hades. But he wouldn’t know range or potential pai pod usage. He Magic is also growing too fast to know what it will be like by the time of the battle.

So the main strategy is uncertainty.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

Kinda interested in how all of you think they’ll outwit diehauser?

My guess, 2 part strategy.

Part 1: numbers. Rias will join her team into Issei’s. This gives them a numbers advantage that will make it harder for Diehauser to plan a battle beforehand. They start rumors that Rias will takeover the role of queen for the battle.

Part 2: Ingvild. She will be the ACTUAL queen for the battle. Rias was meant to take his attention off of her. Too little is known about her to the public. Thus it is harder to plan a strategy against her. So even if he realizes part 1, he will have very little to use. Her song might be known due to her part in the defeat of hades. But he wouldn’t know range or potential pai pod usage. He Magic is also growing too fast to know what it will be like by the time of the battle.

So the main strategy is uncertainty.

The problem with that is that Issei will only have so many team members. And I'm pretty sure no one that is part of either of their peerages will be worth less than 2 pawn pieces(Azazel Cup value). And besides we don't know who's on Diehauser's team so we can't really say that Issei would have a numbers advantage.

Issei at the most will have 11 team members. Including hinself that will make 12 of them. And I doubt Rias or any of her peerage or team members would join Issei's team.

That just seems way too simplistic. You're talking about a man who has NEVER lost a Rating Game and has defeated very experienced Rating Game players and in the Azazel Cup has defeated god teams. He has likely dealt with every tactic or strategy someone could come up with. Even someone like Rudiger couldn't defeat him.