High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[aw454wtr]

Originally Posted by Hakaishin

Controversial opinion but I think Balance Breaker Vali is stronger than Crimson Queen mode Ise.

>comeatmebrojpg.

Except we have seen Ise completely shatter Vali's BB using his 10 second incomplete BB with probably the weakest holy sword

[katokateki]

But let's not forget that Ise defeated Vali's BB (although he regenerated, but that was pure stamina) and forced him to start the JD chant. Probably because of his Ascalon+DD gem combo but yeah, his CCQ was as unpolished as it could be at the moment.

Vali was using his BB which he had mastered for a long time while fighting Sun Wukong. Of course, his EJO would get negative reviews as his power consumption wasn't that efficient. Vali himself admitted it. So, Ise is in a better stage than Vali is to improve his strongest non DxD form. Ise can utilise his CCQ more efficiently and thus, subsequent power-ups will have huge impact.

Ise's BB is no joke in terms of efficiency either, as was apparent in Sairaorg fight and I think he has a chance against Vali's BB in that state. Can't say the same for CCQ, though.

Also, Vali's base form is superior to Ise's base. Slashdog showed it. And while he was not using his Lucifer's power I guess. He was simply able to dodge all the attacks of Tobio and was nearly as fast as Kiba. Wish Ise could do that.

(Maybe I got off track in the middle. I forgot the fact I was arguing against and so stated a lot of my thoughts. Don't consider this whole answer to be a counter, but my views)

Yeah, read your points again, and this is my final answer- Ise's CCQ may be defeated by Vali's BB due to his techniques.
Same can't be said if Ise's BB is against Vali's BB as Ise also has a couple of tricks up his sleeve but he surely is outclassed in terms of power. Ise might lose but it won't be a quick result.
Finally, their base's shouldn't be compared as it would insult Vali.
About the DxD forms, Vali>Ise.

[aw454wtr]

Wonder if author will release another ex volume so we can compare them in the 30 year timeskip would really like to know how powerful ise's full dragonification can get

[katokateki]

There are gonna be sequels in one from or another - college dxd/millicas dxd/EX 2(?)/DX short stories. It just remains to see how author shows it to us. I hope he doesn't just skip 30 years later in time. And EX=time travelling kids coming, Ex's ending had Gasper saying it would never happen again, so maybe no EX 2.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, EX 2 is unlikely because of what (Future) Gasper said. But about the sequels: While it seems Milicas' story is confirmed since Ishibumi said in an Afterword that he wants to write it, we aren't sure about a College DxD or something similar yet. I want to read it, honestly, but Ishibumi might not actually write it.

And yeah, for sure, Ise in 10 years will have gotten a lot stronger. Hopefully in base form as well. In 30 years it'll be even more. I hope we get to see both (more of the Ise of 30 years from now, too, since EX wasn't enough at all).

I guess Cardinal Crimson Queen is weaker overall compared to Vali's Balance Breaker mainly due to it still being incomplete? It'll last longer than Emperio Juggernaut Over Drive because it's more balanced, more efficient, and lasts longer, but being incomplete means it's weaker than it should be and it might also still be a bit unstable currently.

As Katokateki said, though, I guess it really would be an insult to Vali to compare Ise in his base form as it is now to him. So let's not do that.

But if Ise's true form is really that giant Dragon form we saw in EX, then once he can use it well enough in battle and is able to control it, he should be better than Vali in base. Since Ise is a mini-True Dragon now, and his partial Dragonification on his body parts is also really powerful, I think it makes sense for that to be his true form now. Even more so if you think about how he seems to need Ophis' shapeshifting ability to maintain his human form. IIRC, it was mentioned that without it, he'd default back to a Great Red-lookalike appearance. That seems to be why Ophis put some of her power into his new body.

And look at the words "The True Dragon(s?) of Kuou Academy" in the name of the current arc. It might be a sign about Ise's next power-up. Either it's a power-up or people start calling him a True Dragon for some reason. Whichever it is, I'm looking forward to it.

[katokateki]

Yeah, the CCQ will be defeated primarily because Ise can't use it to its potential yet, which can be translated into inefficiency in broad term. What he has, he uses efficiently though.
And the true dragon may mean Ise goes some serious dragon transformation either physically or from his heart/soul. He could, you know, do something in a fight that only dragons would do? I don't know. But either he gets closer to dragons' hearts or he becomes one. The latter will mean there won't be need of any follow-up to show Ise's transformation in the period bw high school dxd and EX. Just a short summary. There won't be any suspense after all! Sorry if the above para makes no sense, but a dragon's way of living has been given importance previously in this series!

Think about it, why would he give us spoiler to his true form if he was going to achieve it later in the same story as a climax? A 100 m true (mini) dragon ain't possible in this series, yet. But I guess something like what Rizevim showed to us? Btw, what was that form? Nano true dragon?

[DragonOsman]

So far, Great Red is the only one who's ever been called "True Dragon" and we don't know why. We don't know what it means. So until the novels shed some light on it, it's probably better to not talk about it.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by aw454wtr

Except we have seen Ise completely shatter Vali's BB using his 10 second incomplete BB with probably the weakest holy sword

Yeah no

Those were my real thoughts. Certainly, I’ve attained the tremendous Balance Breaker. But, when asked whether I can win against Kiba, the answer is no. It’s impossible for me, who has just attained Balance Breaker, to win against Kiba, who has attained it since over a month ago. Most of all, the difference in our battle experience was great from the start.

The power I showed during the time with Vali was temporary. It was possible when I was enraged. The power of the usual me still wasn’t enough

10char

[DragonOsman]

Hm. I see. But his Balance Breaker should've improved since then, right? We aren't really told how much exactly, though, unless I'm forgetting.

[katokateki]

And turns out that shattering armour thing isn't that big a deal! Millicas was able to achieve similar effect(to some extent) on Ise's BB armour! If the armour is being shattered, then what matters is the possessor's stamina. Armour can easily regenerate itself and Sairaorg can shatter it with his fists when he is holding his power back. The thing is, that Ise was supposed to be weak. And thus, only anger could bring out that kind of power but now, shatter the armour all you want, both of them have enough stamina to regenerate it for at least a few times.

[DragonOsman]

True. And Ise's constantly training even now, so he's continuing to improve. It's just that his base form still needs more work, his affinity with Demonic Power and the Bishop Piece is bad, and his Cardinal Crimson Queen and DxD G need more work (did I get everything?).

[katokateki]

Yeah, I guess you said everything except I think the dragon shot bending technique deserves a separate mention, being one of his only techniques.

Also, couldn't he just hand out his wyverns to his team mates at the start of a rating game and they could carry it in their pockets or something? Tell Ise to double their powers and he will do that.

Also, he could distribute those wyverns using Ryuuteimaru. But for that, a high level of control is needed.
Idk why, but those wyverns show infinite potential to me. Distributing those wyverns in a wide area will help him hide his presents in some conditions where enemies could sense his aura. And Rias is going to be defeated using those wyverns' DD. I can't imagine her getting beaten up.

Would be fun to see Ise using Bilingual(also called Pailingual don't know why (i get it, Oppai + lingual)) on Rias. Though he won't use dress break on her. Also, I don't know whether he has used this before, but, using wyverns to touch the female opponents is pretty cool and safe.

[DragonOsman]

I think he has to make actual physical contact with the girl he wants to Dress Break on. And if that's so, doing it through one of his Wyverns won't be enough. But yeah, hopefully he wouldn't use it on Rias.

I also think the Wyverns have quite a high amount of potential, juts like the person using them.

I forgot about the Dragon Shot, but yeah, that too. But the bending one is a new way to use it that he started working on after seeing the way Sirzechs uses his Power of Destruction orbs. So first there's the regular Dragon Shot, and then there's the one that bends and is used in a similar way to Sirzechs' Power of Destruction orbs.

[Tbolt]

There are not two different dragon shots, Ise just applies a technique to change the trajectory of the shot.

[aw454wtr]

Vali is the finished product

ise still has tons of rooms to grow, author seems to make that way so he can use Ise as a get out of jail card if he writes a villian that is too powerful, just give Ise a powerup and say it was due to his growth to solve that problem

[katokateki]

Vali is going through transformations too! They have to be around each other in terms of power levels. Vali can never be weaker than Ise in High School DxD. He can improve his EJO and DxD L too.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by katokateki

Vali is going through transformations too! They have to be around each other in terms of power levels. Vali can never be weaker than Ise in High School DxD. He can improve his EJO and DxD L too.

He can be weaker, for the whole 22 volumes Ise's been much weaker, just because they're rivals doesn't mean they have to be exact equals. They are not Ddraig and Albion. There are other guys like Sairaorg and Saji whom Ise considers as 'rivals' but that doesn't mean they will keep up with Ise in power level.

I'm not saying Vali will be weaker, but he could end up being weaker. Only time will tell.

[katokateki]

If for a short period of time, then I'm cool with it. Would be a nice change and heroic of Ise. But if that becomes permanent, interest will be lost. I think Vali is going to grow in other ways now instead of pure power.

Vali knows advanced magic too, you know!

EDIT: He could end up being weaker, sure, but that will be the end of the endless rivalry of the two Heavenly Dragons. I'm saying weaker overall, not just power.
Vegetta kept improving himself even though Goku surpassed him. They were pretty much neck to neck and fought even though they were friends. DBZ reference.
I may be wrong about the DBZ thing but that's what I remember.

Also, your second line, sorry, para, did you edit it later or did I not read it like a fucking retard again?

[DragonOsman]

The rivalry of the Two Heavenly Dragons will probably end with their generation, from the looks of things. Don't tell me you aren't getting those vibes, too. And besides, we won't be seeing their entire lives. Maybe we won't read enough of the part where Vali is much weaker than Ise - if it happens, that is - to care enough to say it's boring.

[Brawlre]

I swear they better not pull a Pokémon ise better win in his fight against vali.