Mahouka LN - Master Clan Conference Arc (Volumes 17, 18, & 19) Discussion / Poll

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I read your summaries along with other spoilers by Japanese speakers.
But, I never heard about this information.
So, are you saying, narrator says " He feels the need to leave behind an heir with his genes too." in vol.17?

Yes. this one was on the detailed conversation between Mari and Tatsuya on Jcafe.

[Izumo]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I read your summaries along with other spoilers by Japanese speakers.
But, I never heard about this information.
So, are you saying, narrator says " He feels the need to leave behind an heir with his genes too." in vol.17?

Well, for me it is not like that because after reading Koichi's argument against the engagement between Tatsuya and Miyuki, there is a reason to leave a heir no matter what.

Even if Tatsuya can look a girl in a sexual way, for him is more important fulfill his role as magician (read Koichi's argument or the ones from Gouki) and leave a powerful heir, for that he needs a good match with nice genes, Mayumi is a good match, Miyuki is the perfect match.

Magicians are government property, that's the most important thing and is the reason why everyone on the 10MC is so worried about genetics. Maya just don't give a fuck about that.

[TrueAlchemist]

Originally Posted by maypayne

Yes. this one was on the detailed conversation between Mari and Tatsuya on Jcafe.

I found the part, but the part can be interpreted in two ways: Tatsuya may simply have primitive desire to leave behind his genes just like everyone else, or Tatsuya wants to leave behind his genes because it is his natural instinct. For me, it is too early to say that Tatsuya feels need to leave behind an heir with his gene at this point of the story.

@Izumo
Until Yotsuba Arc, Tatsuya was not happy to be a magician because he believed he was an artificial magician who shouldn't be a magician. So, it may be too early to expect Tatsuya to consider a magician's social responsibility, yet. Well, I am really looking forward to read how his mindset has changed since he learned about the truth during the Yotsuba Arc.

[bakato]

I wonder if we'll see Haruka again.

[maypayne]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I found the part, but the part can be interpreted in two ways: Tatsuya may simply have primitive desire to leave behind his genes just like everyone else, or Tatsuya wants to leave behind his genes because it is his natural instinct. For me, it is too early to say that Tatsuya feels need to leave behind an heir with his gene at this point of the story.

You may be right.

[Jiminy]

outch this get's stranger the longer I read it - I just read a bit of syokools summery with google Translate.
I quote the relevant part when Koichi states the following: (gT-English)

... by sharing the same father, the relationship is not only cousins ​​but half-siblings by the father, which increases the risk of problems at the genetic level ...

half-siblings They still officially share the same father but every one believes they're cousins. Aha yeah well in my country it's definitely illegal to marry your half-sibling.
So much scheming ... but the father remains the same ... Maya you disappoint me.

[Izumo]

Originally Posted by Jiminy

outch this get's stranger the longer I read it - I just read a bit of syokools summery with google Translate.
I quote the relevant part when Koichi states the following: (gT-English)


half-siblings They still officially share the same father but every one believes they're cousins. Aha yeah well in my country it's definitely illegal to marry your half-sibling.
So much scheming ... but the father remains the same ... Maya you disappoint me.

The same discussion again *sigh*.

Even if Koichi said that the fact remains, at genetic level they aren't siblings, they are cousins. Is not too hard to understand.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by Izumo

The same discussion again *sigh*.

Even if Koichi said that the fact remains, at genetic level they aren't siblings, they are cousins. Is not too hard to understand.

It's the author that keeps bringing up incest. Honestly, i thought we were finished with it after 16, but Satou spent quite a bit of ink on it in this book. So the discussion is still relevant. Keep in mind only Tatsuya, Maya, Hayama, and miyuki know all those details. I know some disagree but personally I think it's the incest possibility that forced Maya to allow suitors for Miyuki and Tatsuya.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I found the part, but the part can be interpreted in two ways: Tatsuya may simply have primitive desire to leave behind his genes just like everyone else, or Tatsuya wants to leave behind his genes because it is his natural instinct. For me, it is too early to say that Tatsuya feels need to leave behind an heir with his gene at this point of the story.

I agree, I read it as just Tatsuya trying to trip up Mari and then having one of his usual inner dialogues about his emotions. I find it more curious that he still refuses to tell Mari or Mayumi about it.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Izumo

The same discussion again *sigh*.

Even if Koichi said that the fact remains, at genetic level they aren't siblings, they are cousins. Is not too hard to understand.

Nobody in the book give a rat ass about something they don't know about.

What Jiminy is saying is that in vol 17 translation one of the argument brought up against their engagement is that they share the same father. Maya didn't change who was Tatsuya's father when she said she was his mother. She officially made them half-siblings, not cousins.

[Izumo]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Nobody in the book give a rat ass about something they don't know about.

What Jiminy is saying is that in vol 17 translation one of the argument brought up against their engagement is that they share the same father. Maya didn't change who was Tatsuya's father when she said she was his mother. She officially made them half-siblings, not cousins.

"Vol 17 translations"

That is a summary, also he does the translation with GT.

On that scene Koichi was trying to find some flaw on what Maya said, implying Tatsuya and Miyuki are siblings but same as Gouki he can't prove anything of what he said. Maya is the one who clarifies this saying they are cousins, even if they share the same father. People here tends to use the actual denomination for cousins and siblings but remember Mahouka-verse is different from what we know, also is fiction.

Even Satou was the one who said they aren't siblings time ago, don't know if you people believe what you want, but I recommend you to understand the actual info we have in a literal way.

-They have the same father? yes
-Different mothers? only Maya knows
-They are siblings? no
-They are cousins? yes

Simple as that, end of the offtopic discussion.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Nobody in the book give a rat ass about something they don't know about.

What Jiminy is saying is that in vol 17 translation one of the argument brought up against their engagement is that they share the same father. Maya didn't change who was Tatsuya's father when she said she was his mother. She officially made them half-siblings, not cousins.

Hm? Isn't it like saying that Tatsurou raped her? I don't understand.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Nobody in the book give a rat ass about something they don't know about.

What Jiminy is saying is that in vol 17 translation one of the argument brought up against their engagement is that they share the same father. Maya didn't change who was Tatsuya's father when she said she was his mother. She officially made them half-siblings, not cousins.

I have to admit that one threw me for a loop as well. Not sure where Satou is going with that but I had thought the idea was to make them as distant a relation as possible I would think a surrogate Father would be a walk in the park for the Yotsuba.

[Jiminy]

Originally Posted by Izumo

"Vol 17 translations"

That is a summary, also he does the translation with GT.

On that scene Koichi was trying to find some flaw on what Maya said, implying Tatsuya and Miyuki are siblings but same as Gouki he can't prove anything of what he said. Maya is the one who clarifies this saying they are cousins, even if they share the same father. People here tends to use the actual denomination for cousins and siblings but remember Mahouka-verse is different from what we know, also is fiction.

Even Satou was the one who said they aren't siblings time ago, don't know if you people believe what you want, but I recommend you to understand the actual info we have in a literal way.

-They have the same father? yes
-Different mothers? only Maya knows
-They are siblings? no
-They are cousins? yes

Simple as that, end of the offtopic discussion.

In other words Miyuki and Tatsuya officially share the same father.
- Miyuki being altered is irrelevant since no one knows about that
- Yes Mahoukas world might be different but the fact remains that Miyuki and Tatsuya officially share the same father. same father => Miyuki and Tatsuya != cousins

actually I don't care about whether they are siblings or not. I care about the public impression. Maya has the power to alter Tatsuyas and Miyukis personal Information as she sees fit. Thus WHY DOESN'T SHE CHANGE THE FATHER TOO???
If you want to fool every one don't let something like that unchanged. I'm sure Tatsurou wouldn't have said something.

@Echizzen: Since they allegedly used Mayas eggs they used artificial insemination to create Tatsuya. In other words in vitro, thus it happened in a lab.

[Izumo]

Originally Posted by Jiminy

In other words Miyuki and Tatsuya officially share the same father.
- Miyuki being altered is irrelevant since no one knows about that
- Yes Mahoukas world might be different but the fact remains that Miyuki and Tatsuya officially share the same father. same father => Miyuki and Tatsuya != cousins

actually I don't care about whether they are siblings or not. I care about the public impression. Maya has the power to alter Tatsuyas and Miyukis personal Information as she sees fit. Thus WHY DOESN'T SHE CHANGE THE FATHER TOO???
If you want to fool every one don't let something like that unchanged. I'm sure Tatsurou wouldn't have said something.

I agree with you on that, why she doesn't change the only one thing everyone can use against her?

There is something interesting on volume 17, Maya use her best card against everyone on the 10MC metting but at the same time she creates more situations to get more cards on her hand, maybe (and this is just speculation) she use the father thing as a joker. Anyway, it's Maya, she's the best when we talk about lies.

Now, talking about the public impression, there is nothing too much to talk about it if we look at volume 17. Everyone accepts what is going on because is a very common practice between the magicians and the Master Clans, even Mari mentions that when she talks with Mayumi.

[Zeborg]

Originally Posted by Jiminy

In other words Miyuki and Tatsuya officially share the same father.
- Miyuki being altered is irrelevant since no one knows about that
- Yes Mahoukas world might be different but the fact remains that Miyuki and Tatsuya officially share the same father. same father => Miyuki and Tatsuya != cousins

actually I don't care about whether they are siblings or not. I care about the public impression. Maya has the power to alter Tatsuyas and Miyukis personal Information as she sees fit. Thus WHY DOESN'T SHE CHANGE THE FATHER TOO???
If you want to fool every one don't let something like that unchanged. I'm sure Tatsurou wouldn't have said something.

@Echizzen: Since they allegedly used Mayas eggs they used artificial insemination to create Tatsuya. In other words in vitro, thus it happened in a lab.

Well, the conclusion is that it simply doesn't matter.
It's actually even more tricky then that due to the fact that Miya/Maya are identical twins, which would mean that Tatsuya and Miyuki would officially, genetic-wise be, practically full siblings.

[Aciald]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

Well, the conclusion is that it simply doesn't matter.
It's actually even more tricky then that due to the fact that Miya/Maya are identical twins, which would mean that Tatsuya and Miyuki would officially, genetic-wise be, practically full siblings.

Starting to wonder if Satou actually thought this one through.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by TrueAlchemist

I think, you misunderstood few details in the volume and characters' positions.
1. Gouki's reason for interference is the duty of magician to produce talented offspring, and he assumes, incestrous marriage may result in offspring with less talents, so current talents of Miyuki and Tatsuya may get lost and fail to pass down to the next generation. Masaki falling in love with Miyuki is just another push for Gouki. That is why Gouki does not care about 'power balance' between TMC and is willing to send his only son to Yotsuba. Tatsuya staying in Yotsuba is not his concern unlike Koichi.

2. Even though Koichi assumes Tatsuya as S-class magician responsible for Scorched Halloween, Koichi does not care whether Tatsuya joins Saegusa or any other clans as long as Tatsuya is out of Yotsuba. It may be due to the lack of information on Tatsuya, but Koichi's primary objective is making Tatsuya to leave Yotsuba.

3. I don't remember Gouki saying Masaki is equal to Tatsuya in vol.17. Are you talking about the preview for vol.18? I don't think, when Gouki says Masaki being equal to Tatsuya, Gouki is saying his son's strength is equal to Tatsuya. From my understanding, Gouki is saying Masaki is at the equal ground as Tatsuya when it comes to Miyuki because Maya told Gouki that Masaki can pursue/approach Miyuki.

1 & 2 That might be his main reason, but if he's still going along with giving Masaki to the Yotsuba then he's an idiot who doesn't care about his own clan. The second thing is, why would Koichi try to form an alliance with him on this matter if the Yotsuba will still end up getting a powerful magician anyway, the whole point for this as far as Koichi is concerned is weakening the Yotsuba, this goes in the opposite direction.

3. Ah, I thought he meant they were equal in power, my mistake. But I still think he probably thinks that especially considering the fact that he has no clue what Tatsuya is capable of.


And it's pretty stupid of Kudou to step down taking the fall for the Yotsuba, both he and Koichi talked about how the Yotsuba already surpassed the TMC and eclipsed it, but now the Saegusa is gonna be able to check them ? But you just said they surpassed you..

[Jiminy]

Originally Posted by Zeborg

Well, the conclusion is that it simply doesn't matter.
It's actually even more tricky then that due to the fact that Miya/Maya are identical twins, which would mean that Tatsuya and Miyuki would officially, genetic-wise be, practically full siblings.

even more so since they officially share the same surrogate mother (at least officially among the Yotsubas, I don't know about the public)

As I said strange scheme Maya. But maybe I'm just too stupid to keep up with a genius like Maya

[bones]

Originally Posted by Aciald

Starting to wonder if Satou actually thought this one through.

To be honest, if he really wanted to avoid the whole incest matter, it would have been better if he had made Maya and Miya cousins and then made it that when Maya claimed that Tatsuya was her son that the was really true. Then there would have been no conflict to the engagement but I think that the author is just using the engagement as means to incite conflict between the characters. For example, Mayumi and Masaki would probably never have done anything otherwise.