Syosetsuka ni Narou Discussion Thread

[Garn]

Infuriates a lot when the MC is left with a complex generated by someone who despises him and sees him as scum.
Worse when his allies praise him but he does not believe them and continues to trust the words of those who despise him.
Even worse when the complex turns out to be something of great value but you still don't believe it.
And finally, the complex is something that is created without anything really traumatic or with a lot of time of some kind of continuous abuse.

The class bully: You're stupid
The jap MC: Yes I am

[Tenzen12]

As weird as it sounds, it actually has basis in RL psychology and it's certainly not only japanese thing (well it has to be minimaly continuous verbal abuse of some kind at least)

[Amelgar]

i.e. people with such low self-esteem they accept any reason to feel bad about themselves.

[Kyureki]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

As weird as it sounds, it actually has basis in RL psychology and it's certainly not only japanese thing (well it has to be minimaly continuous verbal abuse of some kind at least)

I've seen first hand people who have been constantly told they're stupid or whatnot actually becoming dumbed down for real. The psychological effects of being told you're this or that on a regular basis are not to be underestimated.

This is especially the case when people are in their youth when their minds are still immature and thus more inclined to being influenced by their surroundings.

[Garn]

Do not try to put real issues where it does not fit, a real sample only happens in more serious novels that are more scarce

In the vast majority the MC is told that he is useless at an age that he has a developed brain and is told by characters who have obvious enmity.
Apart from the fact that it does not go through a stage of prolonged abuse (an average of 2 years maximum to a few days) and the abuse is done only with words (simple words).
While the MC is not alone (or it is shown later that he was not alone) and if he has allies who continue to support him.
That is, the MC does not live in a dysfunctional family with an environment that promotes trauma and continuous abuse of him.

This is a Japanese cliche, where they mix silly "gaman" culture and an unnecessary low self-confidence+ not wanting to stand out.
When someone who suffers from this for a short time or that is not serious abuse tries to do something to prove otherwise
There are countless novels where the MC was active and capable but he was told that he is useless and on the same day he believes it and stops trying and lowers his head

[Tenzen12]

Two years is more then enough, though. That's exactly what's called prolonged. Not to mention main characters usually starts at their teenage years.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Garn

Do not try to put real issues where it does not fit, a real sample only happens in more serious novels that are more scarce

In the vast majority the MC is told that he is useless at an age that he has a developed brain and is told by characters who have obvious enmity.
Apart from the fact that it does not go through a stage of prolonged abuse (an average of 2 years maximum to a few days) and the abuse is done only with words (simple words).
While the MC is not alone (or it is shown later that he was not alone) and if he has allies who continue to support him.
That is, the MC does not live in a dysfunctional family with an environment that promotes trauma and continuous abuse of him.

Two years of emotional bullying is more than prolonged enough to mess up anyone, even if they have a good family, you see that all the time in real life.

[wuhugm]

Finally an MC that joins a group
Thank god

[dragon1412]

lol. I actually prefer MC that swing alone more than MC that join guilds or big groups.

[Tenzen12]

I prefer MC who is part of collective myself. Being "unique snowflake" is too mainstream and let's be honest 9/10 super pretentious.

[dragon1412]

I think that's more because the authors tend to try to make MC stand out way too much, I mean, when making a solo MC, I prefer it if the MC isn't too famous unless there are plot significant to it. Since MC being famous actually kill a lot of advantage of MC freedom in solo case.

[wuhugm]

^That's 90% of the case tho
Getting famous solo and offending many as result
To compensate, becoming stronger than entire army, alone

Btw, isn't this logic wrong?

In reality, mages would need secondary weapon to do quick action or when mana is out

[sasuke706]

I suppose it would depend if their profession militaristic in nature or not.

If they're a mage that has a focus on fighting, especially against other people, then of course.
If they don't have any sort of military or enforcement obligation (are a civilian), probably not. Let's equate it to guns. You'll see people go to shooting ranges to practice, but do you think they'll also go to practice judo or something else? Some will, sure, but most will focus on one, if not just for not having the time to really dabble in both and lead a life. In most cases the magic (gun) will be more than enough anyway.

In most Japanese novel settings, mana is also stamina for some reason, so when they're out of mana they're also usually exhausted. They wouldn't have the energy to engage in melee when out of mana.

[dragon1412]

to be fair though, mana linked to stamina is actually way more natural, I mean, If you sit thinking for a long time you'd be tired, It's actually way weirder if you are physically fine even if you are supposed to exhaust your magic reserved which is supposed to be a form of energy.

@erotora: depend, like sasuke said, if they are combat expert, expect all of them knew how to melee combat one way or another, like how most of our soldier use gun but are received extensive trainning in CQC. For those who are not of those professions, unlikely, though I do expect that most mages would still carry a close range weapon in case someone managed to get really close or in the situations they are exposed, they might not be trained in it, but simply having a weapon change a lot of circumstance.

Novels tend to make MC be both fighter and mage, but in reality, that is kind of hard unless your very work demand and have the time for you to train like the military.

[Rasty]

I think every mage that does some fighting (adventurer, soldier) would want some close-quarter weapon. If they need something to channel magic through then they should use a sturdy staff to beat the opponent if in trouble and if they don't need anything then sword it is (because of how easy to carry it is). Even without any training just holding the weapon might buy enough time for allies to save him.

Also armor.... if you aren't running around wouldn't you want to have decently sturdy armor to protect you from random arrows, spell, or if lucky even save your life in close quarters? Not saying full-plate, but anything that is not just a thin piece of cloth.

[wuhugm]

^This

Also equating magic to gun is unfair
One is just pull trigger
The other usually takes few seconds to chant

And non-MC magic usually sucks, like fireball
The chant gave it away too, even crossbow is better

Now that I think about it, regular isekai magician sucks!

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

Btw, isn't this logic wrong?

In reality, mages would need secondary weapon to do quick action or when mana is out

Makes sense to me. Mastering weapons and magic at the same time is like mastering the piano and tennis at the same time. Unless you're a genius or something, you end up being third rate at both.

[Tenzen12]

That's pretty inaccurate parable, if you ask me. Both magic and sword are used for combat and can be synergistic. I would assume and warrior would at bare minimum want be able cast some self buffs and be able use some basic healing and vice versa.

So rather then tenis & piano, it would be like agriculture & geology.

[wuhugm]

^^
^
Master here is probably inaccurate translation

The original JP is probably "Kimeru"
While also can mean master, it's more of "weapon/style of choice"

We have history of training peasants into soldier. How hard is it to learn to wield weapon smh

Also, the magic here is dumb
U buy grimoire and use it to gain magic
No learning needed

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Rasty

I think every mage that does some fighting (adventurer, soldier) would want some close-quarter weapon. If they need something to channel magic through then they should use a sturdy staff to beat the opponent if in trouble and if they don't need anything then sword it is (because of how easy to carry it is). Even without any training just holding the weapon might buy enough time for allies to save him.

Also armor.... if you aren't running around wouldn't you want to have decently sturdy armor to protect you from random arrows, spell, or if lucky even save your life in close quarters? Not saying full-plate, but anything that is not just a thin piece of cloth.

It's depend on the setting, I remember some case where you have to wear little so the mana can have easier time moving with your skin exposed(if I remember correctly, boku no heya dungeon have that kind of setting, but I don't really count on my memories), it kinda make sense to avoid something like armor. In general case though, armor effect on stamina is a lot more extreme than one would think, I'd say most mage spend time learning like our students is very unlikely to wear armor, especially a case when mana is linked to stamina, Imagined casting a big spell and get tired, that armor on your body worsen it, at that point it became a deadweight that prevent you from running rather than something that protect you, a light chainmail like Priestess from GS is likely the best compromise, and that still demanding quite a bit of stamina.

Going back to the sword + magic thing, realistically, it's very unlikely people are going to master both, charted just to limited times, I mean if you considered low hanging fruit like basic from and basic strike as techniques, then yes it's possible to do both, there is also the eternal issues of combat, long distance attack > close combat. History of trainning peasants to be soldier is generally throw them onto the battlefield for more numbers and scale to be honest, it's not their skill, but their numbers is what matter.