Shin High School DxD Volume 2 Discussion

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Toe-to-toe against Rudiger? Last time I checked Rudiger isn't participating in the tournament as a king or anyone's team member.

I mean she got caught off guard by Barakiel pushing Issei into a corner of the field to entrap him. Then had Armaros, an anti-magic specialist, waiting for Rossweisse when Castling was used. He effectibrly took Issei out of the game temporarily and then followed it up by basically knowing they would use Castling and having Armaros wait for Rossweisse there, keeping her occupied when she was the best one suited to find objects.

Issei was entrapped by Dulio taking advantage of his perverted nature. I mean if a tactician and strategist like Ravel can't cover for some of her team's weaknesses, then is she really all that good?

I'm just not seeing how Ravel is this outstanding tactician and strategist. She's very competent but from what I see She's not all that brilliant. She seems only brilliant in a 'tell not show' kind of perspective.

But Ishibumi says she's a brilliant tactician and strategist so I'll tale his word for it. Just wish he would show it rather than tell it. Because her tactics and strategies seem very basic.

So like Rias potential , Vali, Vali team and every featless maou-class/god that are strong because he says so.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Parry999

So like Rias potential , Vali, Vali team and every featless maou-class/god that are strong because he says so.

Yes Rias and Akeno have both been overhyped but had very little to show for it. And It's like Ishibumi had to intentionally nerf Issei just to make him the underdog in his match against Rias.

Well I am really talking about characters that are constantly said to be very powerful and have been hyped to death but when they get some showtime, they don't live up to the hype.

People that are said to be very powerful and haven't showed off yet are fine.

Like Indra who is said to be in the Top 10 and then easily defeated Mahabali and his team of Asuras in their match.

It just looks like Ravel uses very basic tactics. It works for their team but in my view her tactics aren't really anything to get excited over like Sona's or Rudiger's.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Yes Rias and Akeno have both been overhyped but had very little to show for it. And It's like Ishibumi had to intentionally nerf Issei just to make him the underdog in his match against Rias.

Well I am really talking about characters that are constantly said to be very powerful and have been hyped to death but when they get some showtime, they don't live up to the hype.

People that are said to be very powerful and haven't showed off yet are fine.

Like Indra who is said to be in the Top 10 and then easily defeated Mahabali and his team of Asuras in their match.

It just looks like Ravel uses very basic tactics. It works for their team but in my view her tactics aren't really anything to get excited over like Sona's or Rudiger's.

How was Issei the underdog in his match against Rias?

[Rayzer]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

How was Issei the underdog in his match against Rias?

He's the underdog in the sense that Rias has more experience as a "king". Issei is a rookie king with a new team. And yes, while Issei's team have been getting better over the course of the tournament, they are still a new team. Rias team is built around her actual servants that's been with her for years. This is why volume 25 stated Rias team is one of the veteran teams. Because Rias has a veteran team, she doesn't let herself be exploited to openings like she use to in the past because of the experience she's gained over the course of the series as a king.

Meanwhile Issei's team is a rookie team so they haven't got their chemistry yet which is why despite being superior in strength, weaker teams exploited openings as was stated in volume 22. Rias exploited one of these openings via her surprise attack to catch Ravel off guard. In short, if Issei's team had the experience and chemistry as a veteran then the match against Rias would've been completely one-sided.

Another example of a veteran team is Vali and his team. You think Rias surprised attack would've worked against Vali? Of course not.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Rayzer

He's the underdog in the sense that Rias has more experience as a "king". Issei is a rookie king with a new team. And yes, while Issei's team have been getting better over the course of the tournament, they are still a new team. Rias team is built around her actual servants that's been with her for years. This is why volume 25 stated Rias team is one of the veteran teams. Because Rias has a veteran team, she doesn't let herself be exploited to openings like she use to in the past because of the experience she's gained over the course of the series as a king.

Meanwhile Issei's team is a rookie team so they haven't got their chemistry yet which is why despite being superior in strength, weaker teams exploited openings as was stated in volume 22. Rias exploited one of these openings via her surprise attack to catch Ravel off guard. In short, if Issei's team had the experience and chemistry as a veteran then the match against Rias would've been completely one-sided.

Another example of a veteran team is Vali and his team. You think Rias surprised attack would've worked against Vali? Of course not.

And yet he''s beaten teams like Sona, who has just as much experience as a leader and a king as Rias.

[syzorst]

Rias vs Grayfia

https://highschooldxdfc.blogspot.com...sters.html?m=1

[vietthai96]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

And yet he''s beaten teams like Sona, who has just as much experience as a leader and a king as Rias.

I want to this is a wrong comparison, Sona team is even weaker than Rias team in term of strength, and it is Ravel vs Sona in term of strategy not Issei vs Sona, Issei and the others mostly do what Ravel say, he not actually leading his team

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by vietthai96

I want to this is a wrong comparison, Sona team is even weaker than Rias team in term of strength, and it is Ravel vs Sona in term of strategy not Issei vs Sona, Issei and the others mostly do what Ravel say, he not actually leading his team

Issei's team in DX4 wasn't as strong as it is now. Issei's team has the edge in power against both Rias and Sona team by the time they faced them.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

And yet he''s beaten teams like Sona, who has just as much experience as a leader and a king as Rias.

And yet Rias performed better against Ravel than Sona did. Although Rias is inferior to Sona as a tactician, she has made improvements and It's those improvements that caught Ravel off guard. Rias started off the match with a surprise attack that nearly won her the game if she caught Ise in time stop. Furthermore, Rias developed countermeasures to help her which is something he didn't do in the past.

The difference between Sona and Rias is Rias improved herself and covered her weakness while Sona didn't. After all this time Sona still has the weakness of not having fire power and being weak king where as Rias covered that same weakness in the form of Crom and Balor form with Gasper. Combine that with her experience as a king and it would make sense she would be harder to beat that Sona.

Sona had weaknesses that Ravel exploited while Rias didn't

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by syzorst

And yet Rias performed better against Ravel than Sona did. Although Rias is inferior to Sona as a tactician, she has made improvements and It's those improvements that caught Ravel off guard. Rias started off the match with a surprise attack that nearly won her the game if she caught Ise in time stop. Furthermore, Rias developed countermeasures to help her which is something he didn't do in the past.

The difference between Sona and Rias is Rias improved herself and covered her weakness while Sona didn't. After all this time Sona still has the weakness of not having fire power and being weak king where as Rias covered that same weakness in the form of Crom and Balor form with Gasper. Combine that with her experience as a king and it would make sense she would be harder to beat that Sona.

Sona had weaknesses that Ravel exploited while Rias didn't

Being a powerful king really isn't all that much of a strength. Typhon's a powerful king but his team lost because he's an idiot who has no idea of what being a king means.

Rudiger is just like Sona largely using tactics and strategies. And it says that he has defeated Rating Game teams much stronger than his own. And he has even won against Tannin way more than vice-versa. He's not undefeated like Diehauser but it says something that he's the 7th tanker of the Rating Games and is the first human-based reincarnated devil to enter into the ranks of the Top 10.

You can't say that Sona didn't improve her weaknesses as her peerage is way more powerful than it was in Volume 5. You act as if Saji didn't get 3 more of Vritra's Sacred Gears and achieved Balance Breaker, Tsubaki didn't achieve Balance Breaker, like the Sitri girls didn't get Artificial Sacred Gears from the Grigori, and like Sona didn't recruit Loup and Bennia to her peerage.

Sona's peerage is never going to be as powerful as Rias'. That's a fact. But you act as if they're all weaknesses and no strengths which is far from the case.

You act as if they didn't get stronger like the Gremory group did over the course of the series.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Being a powerful king really isn't all that much of a strength. Typhon's a powerful king but his team lost because he's an idiot who has no idea of what being a king means.

Rudiger is just like Sona largely using tactics and strategies. And it says that he has defeated Rating Game teams much stronger than his own. And he has even won against Tannin way more than vice-versa. He's not undefeated like Diehauser but it says something that he's the 7th tanker of the Rating Games and is the first human-based reincarnated devil to enter into the ranks of the Top 10.

You can't say that Sona didn't improve her weaknesses as her peerage is way more powerful than it was in Volume 5. You act as if Saji didn't get 3 more of Vritra's Sacred Gears and achieved Balance Breaker, Tsubaki didn't achieve Balance Breaker, like the Sitri girls didn't get Artificial Sacred Gears from the Grigori, and like Sona didn't recruit Loup and Bennia to her peerage.

Sona's peerage is never going to be as powerful as Rias'. That's a fact. But you act as if they're all weaknesses and no strengths which is far from the case.

You act as if they didn't get stronger like the Gremory group did over the course of the series.

The difference between Typhon and Rias is Rias knows how to be a king and she has power to back it up.

Rudiger is arguably the best tactician in the professional league but why do you think he's never beaten Diehauser despite being a better tactician? Diehuaser is not as good as a tactician as Rudiger but he's smart enough to not leave any weaknesses exploited that would lead to defeat. Couple that with the fact that he's stronger than Rudiger. I see Sona and Rias akin to Rudiger and Diehauser.

It's true that Sona peerage did get stronger but the weakness of a lack of fire power is still there. This is why in the preliminaries she lost against Ise's team and a God Team. Both of those teams have fire power to repel God class which is something Sona lack. Not to mention Sona has the weakness of being a fragile king.

Rias once had that same weakness of being a fragile king but that weakness was eliminated in her Balor form. Rias is not the best tactician but she's competent enough and have improved herself. Case and point, Rias has improved as a king while Sona haven't.

[fan]

@syzorst what if sona doesn't want to improve as a king like Rias did. like she is happy with what she has and doesn't want to change

[Ka-el]

Originally Posted by fan

@syzorst what if sona doesn't want to improve as a king like Rias did. like she is happy with what she has and doesn't want to change

improve as a King how? Sona is already the best strategist among the young devils.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by Ka-el

improve as a King how? Sona is already the best strategist among the young devils.

Best strategist among young devils? This is very debatable. And she has a lot to improve as a King. Her strategies still have to improve a lot before she is considered an excellent strategist and in terms of individual power she still needs to improve a lot. She could try to be a bit more charismatic as well. Maybe this will help her to get some new, stronger servants.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by fan

@syzorst what if sona doesn't want to improve as a king like Rias did. like she is happy with what she has and doesn't want to change

I don't think that's the case, she has a dream and she needs to be strong in order to fullfill it. It's just that she is not a monster and so is unable to catch up with the main characters.

[Lucidrago]

It really just looks like you guys are kind of ignoring all of Sona's strengths and acting as if she has all weaknesses.

Sona's peerage is meant to be more tactical and versatile in different Rating Games. Her peerage isn't one which is as focused on power.

You say she hasn't improved as a king but what proof do you have of that? She is still young and has fought in many battles over the course of the series. She would have obviously had an increase in strength and her skills as a king would have improved.

You guys have a lot of assumptions here based on nothing.

[fan]

@Lex79
Like Rias, I am thinking of entering the Rating Games in proper matches in the future. However, my peerage and I, unlike the Gremory peerage, will taste defeat in the beginning.”

...This was the complete opposite to the Gremory peerage that I belonged to. We were expected to win everything as soon as we debuted and that just showed how many high-level people there were in there, as well as how we were judged right now. Kaichou then gave me a confident smile.

“But that’s all fine. The life of a Devil is long, meaning that the amount of time being active in the Rating Game will also be vast. I will take my time and polish this team. I am planning to make this team into something that can react towards any event or any opponents.”

Then she suddenly asked me.

“By the way, Ise-kun. Don’t you think that it’ll be difficult to face off against opponents who are hard to defeat even after vast amounts of research and investigation?”

Uuu! That’s scary. Kaichou had the same smile like any other day on her face, but when I heard what she had just said, I just got a chill. ...This person was already planning for games in the next ten years...no, next hundreds of years, if not thousands of years.

Sona wants to be strong but not like Rias . she already knows her strengths and weaknesses . she knows that she would lose . So it is not that she is not a monster . she doesn't want to be one

[Royalknightftw]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

It really just looks like you guys are kind of ignoring all of Sona's strengths and acting as if she has all weaknesses.

Sona's peerage is meant to be more tactical and versatile in different Rating Games. Her peerage isn't one which is as focused on power.

You say she hasn't improved as a king but what proof do you have of that? She is still young and has fought in many battles over the course of the series. She would have obviously had an increase in strength and her skills as a king would have improved.

You guys have a lot of assumptions here based on nothing.

Just like others stated, Sona puts too much focus on technique based individuals. In a covert battle, her team will be really good, but in the open field battle her team will be pulverized. She desperately needs more firepower in her team.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Being a powerful king really isn't all that much of a strength. Typhon's a powerful king but his team lost because he's an idiot who has no idea of what being a king means.

Rudiger is just like Sona largely using tactics and strategies. And it says that he has defeated Rating Game teams much stronger than his own. And he has even won against Tannin way more than vice-versa. He's not undefeated like Diehauser but it says something that he's the 7th tanker of the Rating Games and is the first human-based reincarnated devil to enter into the ranks of the Top 10.

You can't say that Sona didn't improve her weaknesses as her peerage is way more powerful than it was in Volume 5. You act as if Saji didn't get 3 more of Vritra's Sacred Gears and achieved Balance Breaker, Tsubaki didn't achieve Balance Breaker, like the Sitri girls didn't get Artificial Sacred Gears from the Grigori, and like Sona didn't recruit Loup and Bennia to her peerage.

Sona's peerage is never going to be as powerful as Rias'. That's a fact. But you act as if they're all weaknesses and no strengths which is far from the case.

You act as if they didn't get stronger like the Gremory group did over the course of the series.

You're missing the point. The point is that Sona needs to expand her horizon instead of being set in one place. Rias has done this. Although her peerage main focus is powers, she's learned to improvise to use more creative ways. Notice that in the match against Ise, she was using similar tactics that Sona and Cao Cao used which was using surprise attacks and coming up with countermeasures. Things that use to be the weakness of Rias peerage in the past.

There's nothing wrong with Sona tactical and technique style play but she also needs power as well to balance it out because sometimes having power can come in handy when It's needed.

This is what separates her from Ravel and Rias. Rias and Ravel both have power and use cunning and countermeasures but Sona has only cunning and countermeasures but no power.

[Lex79]

Originally Posted by fan

@Lex79
Like Rias, I am thinking of entering the Rating Games in proper matches in the future. However, my peerage and I, unlike the Gremory peerage, will taste defeat in the beginning.”

...This was the complete opposite to the Gremory peerage that I belonged to. We were expected to win everything as soon as we debuted and that just showed how many high-level people there were in there, as well as how we were judged right now. Kaichou then gave me a confident smile.

“But that’s all fine. The life of a Devil is long, meaning that the amount of time being active in the Rating Game will also be vast. I will take my time and polish this team. I am planning to make this team into something that can react towards any event or any opponents.”

Then she suddenly asked me.

“By the way, Ise-kun. Don’t you think that it’ll be difficult to face off against opponents who are hard to defeat even after vast amounts of research and investigation?”

Uuu! That’s scary. Kaichou had the same smile like any other day on her face, but when I heard what she had just said, I just got a chill. ...This person was already planning for games in the next ten years...no, next hundreds of years, if not thousands of years.

Sona wants to be strong but not like Rias . she already knows her strengths and weaknesses . she knows that she would lose . So it is not that she is not a monster . she doesn't want to be one

Oh, looks like I misunderstood your post, my bad. I thought you were saying that Sona didn't want to become a better king, but you meant she didn't want to do that the same way as Rias. That makes sense.
The part of her not being a monster, however, simply means she is not an exceptional being like Issei, Vali, Cao Cao.