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DragonOsman · 2017-09-20, 17:19

Ddraig said Vritra was troublesome because of his versatility, didn't he? And in his Dragon King state, Saji has access to all of Vritra's power and abilities. Do keep in mind what abilities Vritra has and what they can do, too. Ise has to stay on his toes against Technique-types anyway, and Saji's abilities because of Vritra are especially troublesome to face.

Lucidrago · 2017-09-20, 17:41

Saying Vrita's the weakest Dragon King is like saying Kiba's the weakest member of the Gremory group. In terms of PURE POWER, Vritra is the weakest. But that doesn't make him weaker than the other Dragon Kings. His strength lies in his abilities and versatility which makes him a match for the other Dragon Kings.

And Issei's CCQ isn't HD-class in strength. It's basically Satan-class or a little higher. And I would put Saji at the level of an Ultimate-class devil. And how is a BB close to CCQ? Vali, Sairaorg, Dulio, Tobio, Cao Cao. That's how. But then again they're Longinus possessors like Issei and that's an unfair comparison. But still Saji's BB is very strong. Yes CCQ is stronger than Saji's BB. But just because someone's stronger than someone doesn't mean they will win every single time. Might win 8 out of 10 times. And plus Issei isn't invincible.He has a natural weakness against technique-types. And if there are technique-types who could defeat Issei, it's Saji and Kiba. Issei is stronger than them but is that really an excuse to let your guard down?

You act like Issei is HD-level. He's not. When he's in DxD he is but that's only for a couple of minutes. And you shouldn't use absolutes like always. Because they're rarely true.

DragonOsman · 2017-09-20, 17:53

^Exactly.

Although we have to keep in mind that CxC only isn't Heavenly Dragon-level for now. Because Ise's base is still trash. Once he gets strong enough to handle CxC being Heavenly Dragon-level, it will reach that level. I've already said why I think so and also provided quotes. It's Ddraig's original power completely liberated, so now it's just about when Ise will become strong enough in base form to be able to bring out Ddraig's full power in CxC (Ddraig's full power or more, actually). And at that point, Ise should be able to use Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames in that form as well if he isn't able to already.

Tbolt · 2017-09-20, 20:17

You read the story right its not my opinion that Vrita is the weakest Dragon King it was stated in the story look it up. And you talk about Saji and technique and I'm talking about Saji in a fist fight with Ise. And Saji being Ultimate-class please give me the chapter where it says that, not your opinion but in the story.

Lucidrago · 2017-09-20, 21:03

Yeah that's my opinion. But then again Saji achieved Balance Breaker, has a lot of combat experience, and is worth 5 pawn pieces in this tournament. So I would say he's Ultimate-class in strength in my opinion.

And like I said, it said Vritra was the weakest in terms of PURE POWER, not the weakest overall. Again you would have to call Kiba the weakest member out of the Gremory group by that logic. Vritra relies on his versatile abilities mainly. If he managed to give a Heavenly Dragon like Ddraig trouble, what do you think he can do with tbe other Dragon Kings who are around his level?

Tbolt · 2017-09-20, 21:07

The statement never mentioned anything about pure power it just said he was the weakest.

Brawlre · 2017-09-20, 23:22

Okay I'm not trying to bully you lucidrago but I need to set you straight stop saying in my opinion when power scaling it either is or isn't there is no bias or opinion or points of view when it comes to statements like the one you just made shit what proof do you even have to back up that statement I'm not saying Saji isn't strong or anything but don't ever go making statements like the one you just made without any proof shit even after getting his balance breaker he got curved stomps by walberga saji hasn't even beaten any ultimate class opponents also sona makes the strategy's and helps them develop the techniques not saji

Royalknightftw · 2017-09-21, 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brawlre

Okay I'm not trying to bully you lucidrago but I need to set you straight stop saying in my opinion when power scaling it either is or isn't there is no bias or opinion or points of view when it comes to statements like the one you just made shit what proof do you even have to back up that statement I'm not saying Saji isn't strong or anything but don't ever go making statements like the one you just made without any proof shit even after getting his balance breaker he got curved stomps by walberga saji hasn't even beaten any ultimate class opponents also sona makes the strategy's and helps them develop the techniques not saji

Huh curb stomped?? He actually managed to fight on par against Walburga when he attained his BB

aw454wtr · 2017-09-21, 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalknightftw

Huh curb stomped?? He actually managed to fight on par against Walburga when he attained his BB

Walburga was not seriously fighting against saji, just toying with him to buy time for Rizeviem to steal agares afterall her purple flames did seriously wound saiaorg if walburga used the full power of her BB saji would be vapourised

Imagine Breaker · 2017-09-21, 05:53

From Volume 7, Life 4:

Quote:

[Vritra had more special abilities rather than direct attacks. His power might be weak among the Dragon-Kings, but in terms of diversity and variety of techniques he is the best among the Dragon-Kings!]

I dunno how you did interpret this one but yeah, I'll agree with Lucidrago.

DragonOsman · 2017-09-21, 07:01

^Yeah, same here. And I'm pretty sure that's Ddraig saying that, which already says a lot.

And @aw454wtr is right, too.

Imagine Breaker · 2017-09-21, 07:26

^Actually, it's Shemhazai. It was the scene when Grigori finished transplanting the other Vritra SG and sent Saji in Dragon King Mode against Loki.

Still doesn't show how the witch could curbstomp BB Saji.

Tho I called it bullsh*t back then when he in base can last long against BB mode Issei in Volume 5. I give up this time.

Hakai · 2017-09-21, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imagine Breaker

Tho I called it bullsh*t back then when he in base can last long against BB mode Issei in Volume 5. I give up this time.

I guess we should just accept the fact that he gets an extra thick plot armor whenever he fights Ise

Imagine Breaker · 2017-09-21, 07:37

^I get the feeling that when Issei and Saji fights, it is Saji who is the protagonist. Kek.

DragonOsman · 2017-09-21, 08:17

Nah. Ise always beats him. Saji probably just has greater endurance.

Imagine Breaker · 2017-09-21, 08:24

^No, it's not who wins the fight. That's obvious. But if you compare them when they are fighting, it seems like Saji's the hero and Issei's the OP demon king. Get what I mean now?

DragonOsman · 2017-09-21, 08:32

Ah, yeah, that's true. It does seem that way when they fight.

Lucidrago · 2017-09-21, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imagine Breaker

^Actually, it's Shemhazai. It was the scene when Grigori finished transplanting the other Vritra SG and sent Saji in Dragon King Mode against Loki.

Still doesn't show how the witch could curbstomp BB Saji.

Tho I called it bullsh*t back then when he in base can last long against BB mode Issei in Volume 5. I give up this time.

How was Issei able to last against Riser in Volume 2 when Riser was beating the s*it out of him in their Rating Game? There's your answer. Saji and Issei are parallels. And have similar levels of willpower and determination.

And you do have to admit that whether she was serious or not she's a Longinus possessor. And Saji's flames were matching the flames of Incinerate Anthem. Saji's abilities aren't something you can write off so easily. His abilities would give Issei trouble to the point where Issei couldn't be careless. And yeah they would work on Issei I'm very sure. Issei isn't invincible. He is still vulnerable to many things.

And Saji only achieved his Balance Breaker in Volume 17. And you saw how quickly he cut a path through those Evil Dragons. And he wasn't even curbstomped by Bedeze Abaddon. Well overwhelmed but not curbstomped. And that was mainly due to bad compatibility with Bedeze.

Saji with his BB and abilities would put Issei in CCQ at a disadvantage due to his natural weakness against technique-types. It would make them look close to even. But regardless, Issei would mostly win in their battles.

DragonOsman · 2017-09-21, 10:10

Yeah. It's sad how much Saji is underestimated here even with Ise having really bad compatibility against Technique-types, which Saji also is. Yeah, sure, Ise can beat him, but because of Saji's powers and abilities, Ise would still have to stay on his toes the whole time. He can't relax for even bit when he and Saji fight. Same with Kiba. In terms of pure power, Ise is stronger than Kiba, but Kiba can make up for it with his speed and techniques. When they spar, Ise can't completely beat him and Kiba can't completely beat Ise, either. They're about even.

Brawlre · 2017-09-21, 11:27

I'm not underestimating saji at all also CCQ isn't weak to techniques if anything it's the opposite that's when he started to learn and gain a wider move pool including new abilities

2017-09-20, 17:19	Link #1021
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Ddraig said Vritra was troublesome because of his versatility, didn't he? And in his Dragon King state, Saji has access to all of Vritra's power and abilities. Do keep in mind what abilities Vritra has and what they can do, too. Ise has to stay on his toes against Technique-types anyway, and Saji's abilities because of Vritra are especially troublesome to face. __________________

2017-09-20, 17:53	Link #1023
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	^Exactly. Although we have to keep in mind that CxC only isn't Heavenly Dragon-level for now. Because Ise's base is still trash. Once he gets strong enough to handle CxC being Heavenly Dragon-level, it will reach that level. I've already said why I think so and also provided quotes. It's Ddraig's original power completely liberated, so now it's just about when Ise will become strong enough in base form to be able to bring out Ddraig's full power in CxC (Ddraig's full power or more, actually). And at that point, Ise should be able to use Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames in that form as well if he isn't able to already. __________________

2017-09-20, 20:17	Link #1024
Tbolt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Texas	You read the story right its not my opinion that Vrita is the weakest Dragon King it was stated in the story look it up. And you talk about Saji and technique and I'm talking about Saji in a fist fight with Ise. And Saji being Ultimate-class please give me the chapter where it says that, not your opinion but in the story. __________________

2017-09-20, 21:07	Link #1026
Tbolt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Texas	The statement never mentioned anything about pure power it just said he was the weakest. __________________

2017-09-21, 07:01	Link #1031
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	^Yeah, same here. And I'm pretty sure that's Ddraig saying that, which already says a lot. And @aw454wtr is right, too. __________________

2017-09-20, 17:41	Link #1022
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	Saying Vrita's the weakest Dragon King is like saying Kiba's the weakest member of the Gremory group. In terms of PURE POWER, Vritra is the weakest. But that doesn't make him weaker than the other Dragon Kings. His strength lies in his abilities and versatility which makes him a match for the other Dragon Kings. And Issei's CCQ isn't HD-class in strength. It's basically Satan-class or a little higher. And I would put Saji at the level of an Ultimate-class devil. And how is a BB close to CCQ? Vali, Sairaorg, Dulio, Tobio, Cao Cao. That's how. But then again they're Longinus possessors like Issei and that's an unfair comparison. But still Saji's BB is very strong. Yes CCQ is stronger than Saji's BB. But just because someone's stronger than someone doesn't mean they will win every single time. Might win 8 out of 10 times. And plus Issei isn't invincible.He has a natural weakness against technique-types. And if there are technique-types who could defeat Issei, it's Saji and Kiba. Issei is stronger than them but is that really an excuse to let your guard down? You act like Issei is HD-level. He's not. When he's in DxD he is but that's only for a couple of minutes. And you shouldn't use absolutes like always. Because they're rarely true.

2017-09-20, 21:03	Link #1025
Lucidrago Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: United States	Yeah that's my opinion. But then again Saji achieved Balance Breaker, has a lot of combat experience, and is worth 5 pawn pieces in this tournament. So I would say he's Ultimate-class in strength in my opinion. And like I said, it said Vritra was the weakest in terms of PURE POWER, not the weakest overall. Again you would have to call Kiba the weakest member out of the Gremory group by that logic. Vritra relies on his versatile abilities mainly. If he managed to give a Heavenly Dragon like Ddraig trouble, what do you think he can do with tbe other Dragon Kings who are around his level?

2017-09-20, 23:22	Link #1027
Brawlre Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015	Okay I'm not trying to bully you lucidrago but I need to set you straight stop saying in my opinion when power scaling it either is or isn't there is no bias or opinion or points of view when it comes to statements like the one you just made shit what proof do you even have to back up that statement I'm not saying Saji isn't strong or anything but don't ever go making statements like the one you just made without any proof shit even after getting his balance breaker he got curved stomps by walberga saji hasn't even beaten any ultimate class opponents also sona makes the strategy's and helps them develop the techniques not saji

2017-09-21, 07:26	Link #1032
Imagine Breaker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Deep within the abyss that is fatigue	^Actually, it's Shemhazai. It was the scene when Grigori finished transplanting the other Vritra SG and sent Saji in Dragon King Mode against Loki. Still doesn't show how the witch could curbstomp BB Saji. Tho I called it bullsht back then when he in base can last long against BB mode Issei in Volume 5. I give up this time. __________________ Samurai, in the old days, used two swords: a katana and a wakizashi. Having two blades in your belt meant you were a fully fledged warrior. But at some point, we threw away that pride, lost the belief that we should protect others, and all that was left was the one weapon to protect ourselves.... THE NEO ARMSTRONG CYCLONE JET ARMSTRONG CANNON*

2017-09-21, 07:37	Link #1034
Imagine Breaker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Deep within the abyss that is fatigue	^I get the feeling that when Issei and Saji fights, it is Saji who is the protagonist. Kek. __________________ Samurai, in the old days, used two swords: a katana and a wakizashi. Having two blades in your belt meant you were a fully fledged warrior. But at some point, we threw away that pride, lost the belief that we should protect others, and all that was left was the one weapon to protect ourselves.... THE NEO ARMSTRONG CYCLONE JET ARMSTRONG CANNON

2017-09-21, 08:17	Link #1035
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Nah. Ise always beats him. Saji probably just has greater endurance. __________________

2017-09-21, 08:24	Link #1036
Imagine Breaker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Deep within the abyss that is fatigue	^No, it's not who wins the fight. That's obvious. But if you compare them when they are fighting, it seems like Saji's the hero and Issei's the OP demon king. Get what I mean now? __________________ Samurai, in the old days, used two swords: a katana and a wakizashi. Having two blades in your belt meant you were a fully fledged warrior. But at some point, we threw away that pride, lost the belief that we should protect others, and all that was left was the one weapon to protect ourselves.... THE NEO ARMSTRONG CYCLONE JET ARMSTRONG CANNON

2017-09-21, 08:32	Link #1037
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Ah, yeah, that's true. It does seem that way when they fight. __________________

2017-09-21, 10:10	Link #1039
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	Yeah. It's sad how much Saji is underestimated here even with Ise having really bad compatibility against Technique-types, which Saji also is. Yeah, sure, Ise can beat him, but because of Saji's powers and abilities, Ise would still have to stay on his toes the whole time. He can't relax for even bit when he and Saji fight. Same with Kiba. In terms of pure power, Ise is stronger than Kiba, but Kiba can make up for it with his speed and techniques. When they spar, Ise can't completely beat him and Kiba can't completely beat Ise, either. They're about even. __________________

2017-09-21, 11:27	Link #1040
Brawlre Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015	I'm not underestimating saji at all also CCQ isn't weak to techniques if anything it's the opposite that's when he started to learn and gain a wider move pool including new abilities