Kantai Collection -KanColle- (generic discussion thread)

[Estavali]

Just a random observation: like the Abyssal destroyers, the enemy planes are actually a lot bigger than most of us existing fans might have imagined. Judging from the scene where Fubuki saved Mutsuki, it seems that these aircraft might actually be almost as big as a destroyer Kanmusu; probably big enough for them to sit and fly around on one. Not pigeon-sized things that could fit in a cooking pot =3

If I'm correct, that means the bombs they carry (and the one that hit Kisaragi) is probably around the size of, say, a 3~4kg fire extinguisher.

Originally Posted by Sheba

Admiral cant even be blamed in the anime. Kisaragi's demise was mostly due to a lapse of attention on her and her team.

To be fair, Nagato's the one overseeing the operation =3

With that said, from an amateur's PoV (mine), I find the initial plan to be quite workable. I would argue for more firepower, say at least a couple of heavy cruisers, instead of an all-destroyer-and-light cruiser composition, but otherwise the plan is sound. On paper.

I think the naval base may have underestimated the Abyssals, or at least their ability to answer an attack with proper tactical measures. Silencing scouts and countering an ambush by chasing the advance party into a pincer attack suggests that their enemies are at least sentient enough to employ strategy. It is to Nagato's credit that she recognized the danger in pushing on with the original plan after they lost the element of surprise.

That the enemy can and probably will match the protagonists blow-for-blow opens the door to a lot of unpredictable (and fun) situations. Like, say, an enemy attack on the base after the main force has left to fight what might well be a decoy (Summer 2014 E6, anyone?).

Let's see how the storyboard person goes about with this =3

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Or simply, bad luck. Seeing how that lone Abyssal plane was already on its last legs and blew up right after delivering the bomb.

Seen from the Shinkaiseikan's PoV, that poor thing would be a hero for striking down an enemy with its last breath. Someone in himeuta had in fact made a WWII-propaganda-like poster about it

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Really, I can't consider offscreen death as "more serious and better" than actual death of an introduced character.
However little you learn about her, Kisaragi was introduced properly when it comes to her relationship with Mutsuki. Even though they did it in a rush in a single episode, they did nail the point that Kisaragi was like an older sister for her, but also was an emotional support ever since Mutsuki was transfered in the naval base. This alone gives lots of obvious parallelism between them and Mutsuki/Fubuki.
Because of this, regardless how little we knew about Kirasargi and how her death was abrupt, people immediately knew what was coming to Mutsuki and how dramatic it will be in ep4.

The simple fact you can identify the victim is a huge difference, because it gives reasons for the audience to care and empathize the character grieving the deceased. The fact you don't know the victim completely change how the audience can relate to the remaining characters.

Comparing it with family member is not only impertinent, but it also plays on different context.
Everyone has a family and can somehow imagine the grief of someone losing a family member. But here, we are dealing with characters that don't exactly have family bounds, save the fact the "original ships were of the same class". This is even more true here because only the sendai sisters are considered as real siblings in the Kancolle Anime, whereas the others are losely connected (hell, even Kisaragi and Mutsuki aren't "family" per se).

And even so, with that trope, it is always much more effective if the audience learned who died. That's because even if you can imagine the grief, the impact isn't the same because you can't imagine how big the loss is, because you don't know the character who died.

Really, let's imagine that: let's imagine that Kisaragi wasn't in the anime at all, and that they cut the bomb scene, and Tone/Jintsuu and Nagato/Admiral scenes... then in ep3, we have Mutsuki learning about Kisaragi's death.
I don't see how the audience is supposed to feel about that, because they would have 0 clue who it is, nor why it would affect Mutsuki that much.

Kisaragi was obviously meant to be a character development catalyst for Mutsuki, but saying it would be better with an offscreen character would not only trivialize the death toll (people would still have hard time regarding how and why Kanmusu can sink), but they would NOT be able to relate to Mutsuki, which would be the biggest failure of such plot point.

This might offer some character development Fubuki too imho.

It's true that she doesn't relate much to Kisaragi, but she is close to Mutsuki who would be the person most affected by Kisaragi's demise. The death won't hit her with the kind of impact it does with Mutsuki, but it could show her a glimpse of what it would be like if the casualty is Mutsuki and/or Yuudachi, her closest friends so far, or the Akagi she so admires. Judging by her current development, it's logical to say that this incident would strengthen her resolve to improve herself, so as to prevent the same thing from happening to the ones she cares most.

Of course it may also give her more doubts over what she could achieve on her part. Given that Yuudachi and Fubuki herself doesn't seem to think much about a destroyer's ability to protect everyone, she might once again come to doubt her efforts =3

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Is the studio trolling us so fast?

Unless it's supported with a magazine scan or an announcement on the official site, I'll take this with a pinch of salt. A troll's work no doubt (and I don't think that's how one transliterates ミッドウェー). Someone took their unhappiness out in a childish manner, so the revision history would suggest =w=

Heroes don't die, they just vanish.

OT, but imho they must die, as visibly as possible, so that folks can relate to them. The more heroic the death, the better the rallying effect =3

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Improve the experience regarding to what? Don't quite get your gripes here. And you keep talking about the sole meaning of Kisaragi's sinking is to "shock the audience". This remains to be seen. I repeat, going by Akagi's conversation with Fubuki and Mutsuki along with the upcoming counterattack chances right now are pretty high that the anime isn't a merry-go-round SOL. In fact, Kisaragi's sinking might be the start of something more terrible to come. Also, why does Kisaragi's sinking have to be a heroic one in order to be acceptable? It is a serious conflict and danger lurks everywhere. Having Kisaragi sunk by a stray bomber illustrates this much better than some cheesy hero death.

If the intention is to generate grief, then the best way to go about it is to let her die a meaningless death, not a hero's one.

Why? Because a hero's death would offer the consolation that she has at least not died in vain. Not so otherwise, where the ones she left behind would have nothing justify her passing, only grief, anger and bewilderment. Demand an answer and get "that's life; nothing we can do about it" with a shrug, how's that gonna feel?

[Death Usagi]

I am sure that Midway thing is fake. Someone even changed the title to something else before.

No source = fake

[Death Usagi]

Fun Fact: Madoka Magica's Episode 3 and KanColle Episode 3 both aired on January 21

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Estavali

I think the naval base may have underestimated the Abyssals, or at least their ability to answer an attack with proper tactical measures. Silencing scouts and countering an ambush by chasing the advance party into a pincer attack suggests that their enemies are at least sentient enough to employ strategy. It is to Nagato's credit that she recognized the danger in pushing on with the original plan after they lost the element of surprise.

That the enemy can and probably will match the protagonists blow-for-blow opens the door to a lot of unpredictable (and fun) situations. Like, say, an enemy attack on the base after the main force has left to fight what might well be a decoy (Summer 2014 E6, anyone?).

You made me wonder that besides coincidence and a good strategy, another possibility is that the Abysaal fleet was able to intercept their communications.

If that was the case, it can be really interesting. We may have a battle where they will have to come with strategies by themselves in the field because communicating with the HQ would give away what they're doing.

[AC-Phoenix]

A thing I wonder about in regards of death and rebuilding after this episode.

If the admiral were to rebuild Kiseragi now - would the fleet girl look exactly the same or would the Ships soul inhabit a new body? (probably a newborn I guess).

I mean if its the letter and they are literally born with the warship's soul isn't that kinda awkward for siblings and the parents?

Edit:
It would certainly make fun insults between siblings htough

Yamato:'You are stupid!'
Brother: ' And you displace half the ocean!'


Also are russian ships female in kancolle?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

A thing I wonder about in regards of death and rebuilding after this episode.

That's what I wondered beforhand, hence why I'm not so keen with the idea of having a Kisaragi duplicate, unless they give more details how a Kanmusu is "born": if it is a spirit materialization or an actual human who was born/awaken such status.

Also are russian ships female in kancolle?

Only one thus far, Verniy, Hibiki's "kai ni".
Otherwise, there are 5 german ships: Bismarck, Prinz Eugen, Z1, Z3, i-8

[Seihai]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

If the admiral were to rebuild Kiseragi now - would the fleet girl look exactly the same or would the Ships soul inhabit a new body? (probably a newborn I guess).

If rebuilding Kisaragi is possible in the anime, she would look and act exactly the same. Whether she'd have the memories of her previous self is unknown but it's doubtful. I personally don't think rebuilding is possible anyway but let's see. Btw. they don't have a family per se. I assume their origin is similar to the abyssal's origin. But that in itself is a mystery that hasn't been unveiled.

Also are russian ships female in kancolle?

Every ship is a shipgirl, there are no males. Even the ships with male names (namely the German ones) are female. As for the Russian part, the only one that comes to mind is Verniy (the late remodel of Hibiki, the one who likes saying Khorosho) but she isn't really from Russia.

[Eisdrache]

Is there some kind of rock-paper-scissors? In ep3 we saw that torpedo ships had massive trouble with aerial attacks while Hiei just 1-shots it.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Is there some kind of rock-paper-scissors? In ep3 we saw that torpedo ships had massive trouble with aerial attacks while Hiei just 1-shots it.

There is no real rock paper scissors, but rather a role for each ship types.
Regarding torpedo squadron ships, they are highly mobile, but they don't have an heavy arsenal, and they don't boast high anti air armaments, save very few exceptions. In the game, Light Cruisers and Destroyers are submarines killers, as well as very effective ships for night battles.

[~Yami~]

my gawd....

well, destroyer-type is fragile after all

but Kisaragi's death is unpredictable and unexpected.. damn! Urobuchi? Are you behind this? Kyubey??

now it is clear that death flags is everywhere especially on Akagi's head right now
I don't know what is going to happen to Mitsuki in next episode
I wonder why Squad 4 didn't notice Kisaragi when she got hit.. why they can't find her after she sunk?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

That's what I wondered beforhand, hence why I'm not so keen with the idea of having a Kisaragi duplicate, unless they give more details how a Kanmusu is "born": if it is a spirit materialization or an actual human who was born/awaken such status.

Yeah, the word 'born' made me wonder too.

Originally Posted by Seihai

If rebuilding Kisaragi is possible in the anime, she would look and act exactly the same. Whether she'd have the memories of her previous self is unknown but it's doubtful. I personally don't think rebuilding is possible anyway but let's see. Btw. they don't have a family per se. I assume their origin is similar to the abyssal's origin. But that in itself is a mystery that hasn't been unveiled.

Akagi used the word 'born' and their appearance is rather human too, that is what makes me wonder.
The question is if she just used it to replace build or meant it literal.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Only one thus far, Verniy, Hibiki's "kai ni".
Otherwise, there are 5 german ships: Bismarck, Prinz Eugen, Z1, Z3, i-8

Originally Posted by Seihai

Every ship is a shipgirl, there are no males. Even the ships with male names (namely the German ones) are female. As for the Russian part, the only one that comes to mind is Verniy (the late remodel of Hibiki, the one who likes saying Khorosho) but she isn't really from Russia.

Oh thats not what I meant.
Ships are generally female in german, no matter their name.
for example. Die Bismarck, die Prinz Eugen, die being the female article.

The reason I asked is that I heard russia apparently considers their ships to be male (again regardless of the vessels actual name.)

[Top Sergeant]

I am very interested in how the opening scenes of Episode 4 will play out, when Fubuki amd Mutsuki meet the returning Torpedo Squadron 4 and discover Kisaragi is gone. It has immense potential to be a very memorable scene.

If they do have a Midway-esque battle, for some reason I have a bad feeling about Kaga, not Akagi.

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

I am very interested in how the opening scenes of Episode 4 will play out, when Fubuki amd Mutsuki meet the returning Torpedo Squadron 4 and discover Kisaragi is gone. It has immense potential to be a very memorable scene.

If they do have a Midway-esque battle, for some reason I have a bad feeling about Kaga, not Akagi.

I've seen several people talking about Kaga burning to a crisp while everyone else gets scuttled with torpedo assisted suicide, with Fubuki getting the job of finishing off Akagi. Talk about pessimism...

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I wonder why Squad 4 didn't notice Kisaragi when she got hit.. why they can't find her after she sunk?

They can't find her because she's sunk. No kanmusu other than subs can dive underwater and depending on the depth of the ocean maybe not even a sub can reach her. Besides, even in the real world finding the wreckage of a sunken ship is by no means an easy endeavour. Many of them, especially those sunk in deep water, will probably never be found.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Akagi used the word 'born' and their appearance is rather human too, that is what makes me wonder.
The question is if she just used it to replace build or meant it literal.

Actually, that's a mistranslation in Crunchy Rolls.
Akagi said "私たち艦娘は存在したその瞬間から戦うことを運命付けられていま", which means:
"We, Kanmusu, are fated to fight the very moment we came to exist."

Which means her sentence works if they were humans and inherit the warship soul, which "turn them into kanmusu" at that very moment.
This word also means they could be "built" as well, although the monologue in the very first episode use the worse 娘たち which is hardly something you say to objects.

[panzerfan]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Actually, that's a mistranslation in Crunchy Rolls.
Akagi said "私たち艦娘は存在したその瞬間から戦うことを運命付けられていま", which means:
"We, Kanmusu, are fated to fight the very moment we came to exist."

Which means her sentence works if they were humans and inherit the warship soul, which "turn them into kanmusu" at that very moment.
This word also means they could be "built" as well, although the monologue in the very first episode use the worse 娘たち which is hardly something you say to objects.

Kagerou novel's interpretation is that a human would assume the mantle of being a shipgirl, but there's no definitive answer on shipgirl's origin. Natural deities do come into being on their own virtues, and such deities have gender.

[Nvis]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

I've seen several people talking about Kaga burning to a crisp while everyone else gets scuttled with torpedo assisted suicide, with Fubuki getting the job of finishing off Akagi. Talk about pessimism...

I am mad at these people.

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by Death Usagi

What the hell is up with people editing Wikipedia's KanColle anime page putting vandalism regarding Episode 3 and putting fake episode names for Ep 5 and 6...? =A=

Some people with itchy hands wanted to troll us all, even I fell for it. >__>

Originally Posted by Nvis

No anti-air missles?

You don't see them in WW2 as missile technology was virtually non-existent until the war ended.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Only one thus far, Verniy, Hibiki's "kai ni".
Otherwise, there are 5 german ships: Bismarck, Prinz Eugen, Z1, Z3, i-8

Spoiler:

There was actually another "Hibiki" yet to be introduced, Harutsuki.

@Phoenix
For Russian ship, the series only got one that was later given to the Soviets.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by panzerfan

I've seen several people talking about Kaga burning to a crisp while everyone else gets scuttled with torpedo assisted suicide, with Fubuki getting the job of finishing off Akagi. Talk about pessimism...

That heavy of a casualty count among the shipgirls, especially all at once, does not feel to me like it fits in with the tone of the anime.

[RapidPotential]

Ouch. Can we say "wham ending"?

One thing that was done well was the foreshadowing about Kisaragi's impending demise, reinforced by Akagi's talk about protecting loved ones and treasuring your time with them, because they may no longer be around one day.

The emotional build-up in particular hit the feels hard when that happened at the end.

Well, I can at least look forward to Kongou's actual debut next week.