High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[DragonOsman]

Yeah. You and B214 put it really well.

And yeah, Ise saying he has bad compatibility against Technique-types but seeming to not do anything about it (which isn't really true - he does try, and bears fruit at times) is getting annoying. He needs to stop saying it so many times. As per B214's definition, doesn't he already seem to be a Technique-type that focuses on Support and Power? Or rather, a Power-type that is also Technique- and Support-based.

He does have some Technique-based applications to his powers, at least. It'd be great if he could come up with ways to use his powers in a way that would allow him to defeat any Technique-type. Maybe not one at the level of the First-Gen Sun Wukong just yet, as that would be too much, but any others should be fine for now.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Yeah. You and B214 put it really well.

And yeah, Ise saying he has bad compatibility against Technique-types but seeming to not do anything about it (which isn't really true - he does try, and bears fruit at times) is getting annoying. He needs to stop saying it so many times. As per B214's definition, doesn't he already seem to be a Technique-type that focuses on Support and Power? Or rather, a Power-type that is also Technique- and Support-based.

Yeah that.
Ise's primarily a power type, but he's also a really good support as well because of Transfer.
But after unlocking Reflect and Penetrate you could say he's a technique type as well.

[B214]

I wouldn't really call Ise a technique type simply due to that. He doesn't use reflect for other purposes besides reflecting his Dragon Shots to hit his enemies. And [Penetrate] allows him to bypass all forms of defense but still requires Issei to fight in his usual style. In the end, Ise's fighting style is pretty much still constricted to the power side. Not that he needs to change or anything, each to this own style and taste after all.

[Hakai]

Ise did reflect Walburga(?)'s spells during their 'fight', so he could reflect others attacks.

And I already said he's primarily a power type, but in detailed classification there is a bit of techniques as well.

[B214]

I wouldn't classify a bit of technique as a technique user. Cao Cao's True Longinus has a actually 2 destructive attack, even so that wouldn't make him a power-type.

[Hakai]

Reflect alone makes him a counter-type which is a kind of technique-type.

And I'd also consider Cao Cao a technique-type who's closer to power-type.

Asia and Gasper are Support-types. Also, if you classify them with even more detail, Asia is closer to a Wizard-type, while Gasper is closer to a Technique-type. Koneko is a Power-type. And lastly, Ise. You’re also a Power-type. However, you’re also good at being a Support-type as well. With your [Gift] power

If V5 Asia could be considered as a wizard-type as well even though her support greatly overshadows whatever magic she has I don't see why Ise can't be considered technique-type as well.

Just because Ise and Cao Cao are primarily power and technique types doesn't mean they can't have other elements as well.

[Krudelu]

This is why I personally find defining users as "power type" and "technique type" irrelevant to me (I don't mind for DxD to still continue using these since such terms are part of the series). Overall, it's about the user's overall "arsenal." What I meant by "arsenal" is that this includes the user's own power, abilities, applications, mindset, adaptability, and any other aspects that determines the user's overall capabilities. This is why I'm more leaning towards "compatibility," which can go towards pros and cons. I guess something like "wizard type" and "support type" makes more sense at least but eh

@DragonOsman And yes I agree that Issei keep saying about his horrible matchup against "technique types" is starting to get annoying.

Another addition aside from just coming up with different applications or powering his way though against "hax" abilities would be he might as well start developing some sort of "reading" ability. I'm not expecting him to go jump to having Goku, Ikki, and Kazuki tier (just to name a few) reading and/or adaptability ability yet but being able to get started and improving at that aspect can help him deal with whatever bad matchup he thinks he might end up encountering. I know that he have good reaction but I don't think that'll be enough to help him in every situation. Heck with this he can punish harder this way. Someone with high firepower that can punish someone's mistake really good is scary as hell.

[DragonOsman]

@B214: What Hakaishin said is true. To add: like I said before, Ise has Technique-like applications for his powers. Like how he sometimes tries to use the Dragon Shot in a similar way to how Sirzechs uses his Power of Destruction orbs - which is quite like a Technique-type fighter. He's also able to use Reflect to reflect enemy attacks back at them (which he did do against Walburga, like Hakaishin said).

One thing Hakaishin seems to have missed is that Ise also has the Wyverns, which is primarily a Technique-type ability. Now, granted, his most recent way of using it is very Power-type-ish (referring to Crimson Extinct Dragonar here), but the Wyverns themselves are still primarily for diversity and technique.

@Krudelu: Yeah, I agree with you about "reading". It'd be great for Ise if he became capable of identifying enemies and allies from their energy signatures and could also determine what they'll do next during a fight just by sensing their energy (in this case it'd be "Demonic Power" or "Holy Aura"; "energy" is for human fighters like Cao Cao. But yeah).

You make a good point about adaptability, mindset and all that stuff with the "arsenal", too. This series does have those other classifications, too, though, so we should also continue to consider those as well.

[B214]

I never said that [Reflect] isn't a technique just saying one or two technique doesn't make one an actual Technique type nor does having one or two power move make one an actual Power type. And wizard doesn't necessarily mean they use magic. Rias is a Wizard type but she doesn't use magic, she uses her POD. Same with Akeno, she uses her Holy Lightning.

Wizard type is probably those that don't fight with fist or in close combat but through stuff like magic, demonic power etc.
Technique as i mention before, IMO are those with large set of skills in their disposal and settles more at countering their opponent.
Support, well i don't think this needs any special mentioning.
Power, those that excel in having raw power in their attack, preferring to overpower their opponent.

And again this is my opinion to why Ise can't be considered as a technique type. Technique types are those that generally excel is conserving their energies while Power types don't, in return Power-type excels in defense that Technique type. Kiba & Cao Cao fight in a way where they conserve their energy through countering their opponents while Ise and Vali fight in a way where they overpower their opponents but consume lots of stamina.

[Hakai]

According to Azazel's description Wizard-types are those who are generally superior in magic.
Demonic power also counts as magic.

Technique-types don't necessarily need a large set of skills or the ability to conserve energy.
Sirzechs mainly uses PoD, and he can't even control his own energy from spreading but his technique is said to be the best or second best among Devils(probably just behind Ajuka).

Yeah what Kiba and Cao Cao does is very impressive and that is the very reason why they are called ultimate technique-types, but not everyone has to be just like them to be a technique-type.

[DragonOsman]

Demonic Power is not magic. Magic is all about formulas. Demonic Power focuses on imagination to produce offensive attacks. Ajuka just managed to turn his Demonic Power into one that resembles magic. But that's Ajuka.

@B214: Why are you completely ignoring the Wyverns? The Wyverns are mainly about Technique, aren't they? And there's also the way Ise tries to use the Dragon Shot by mimicking Sirzechs, who, like Hakaishin said, is said to be a strong Technique-type fighter.

@Hakaishin: The thing about the Power of Destruction is that it can be used in different ways depending on who's using it. A Power+Wizard-type like Rias uses it like a Power Idiot while someone like Sirzechs uses it in ways that confuse the opponent and make it look like it has a mind of its own. And that's what Ise tries to mimic with his Dragon Shot (the way Sirzechs uses the Power of Destruction).

And B214, Cao Cao also said that Vali can beat him with just power. Vali is also Technique- and Power-type. Ise is primarily a Power-type who also has Technique and Support elements.

[B214]

@Hakaishin. Correction, Sirzechs can't control his POD only when he is in his true form. His control on Ruin the Extinct is flawless. He even send his POD into Creuserey's body destroying Ophis' snake without killing Creuserey in the process. Azazel even said it.

One of the reasons why Sirzechs was chosen as a Maou. –Overwhelming power of destruction. It eliminates everything it touches. It doesn’t even leave a trace. Absolute destruction. Even if it was small, it has outrageous power. He didn’t overuse the absolute power of destruction, he didn’t even increase its mass, he kept it in a small size, and he is able to control several of them like his own limbs. A technique which requires delicate control and a great level of talent. Sirzechs has those.

Also magic and demonic powers are different things.

@DragonOsman, since when did i ignore the Wyvern i even said it may be a technique but simply having one or two technique doesn't make Issei a technique user or type. His fighting style is still mainly on overpowering his opponents. And Vali is a Power-Wizard type.

[Hakai]

Demonic power is often called magic power as well

Maou-sama’s posture is elegant, the aura surrounding demons is quiet around him but even an amateur like me can sense the terrifying concentration of magic power in my skin

Your opponent Vali seems to have a tremendous amount of magic power.

[DragonOsman]

I'm counting three possible Technique-type abilities in Ise's arsenal, though. Wyverns, Reflect, and Sirzechs-PoD-mimic Dragon Shot. I'm not sure if I should count Penetrate since it's more about power than technique.

I'm with you on Sirzechs and also on magic and Demonic Power.

Edit:
@Hakaishin: That's not to say that magic and Demonic Power can be seen as interchangeable. They can't be. Demonic Power is also sometimes referred to as "magic power", but that doesn't mean it's compared to magic itself. Demonic Power isn't the same thing as magic.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Hakaishin

Demonic power is often called magic power as well

Demonic Powers and Magic are different.

“Yeah, demonic-power is something which you use to turn your imagination into actual form, and magic is something where you use equations to make supernatural phenomenon occur, right?”

“If you have to separate them simply, yes, that is correct. Demonic-power requires the power to use imagination and the power to create, and it requires having good sense. Magic is just knowledge to control equations, and you need to use your head and need calculations, so they are different even though it may seem similar.”

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I'm counting three possible Technique-type abilities in Ise's arsenal, though. Wyverns, Reflect, and Sirzechs-PoD-mimic Dragon Shot. I'm not sure if I should count Penetrate since it's more about power than technique.

I'm with you on Sirzechs and also on magic and Demonic Power.

Edit:
@Hakaishin: That's not to say that magic and Demonic Power can be seen as interchangeable. They can't be. Demonic Power is also sometimes referred to as "magic power", but that doesn't mean it's compared to magic itself. Demonic Power isn't the same thing as magic.

I'm not focusing on the moves. I'm focusing on the fighting style. Issei's fighting style isn't that of a technique, he doesn't counter his opponent, like Cao Cao or Kiba, Ise simply overpowers them. To me the types in RG doesn't refer to the move they use or have but to the way they fight. Sirzechs doesn't fight in a way where he tries to overpower his opponent, he didn't even try to overpower Creuserey despite being able to do so. Instead he opted to weaken Creuserey before killing him, that's a fighting style that IMO doesn't use much energy like Ise or Vali.

[DragonOsman]

If Technique can be equated to diversity and different ways to use power, then Ise can still be called a Power-type with Technique-type elements. He also happens to have Support elements, though. After all, he does try to use the Dragon Shot in Technique-like ways. He mainly focuses on trying to overpower the opponent by using raw power, but it's not like he doesn't have any Technique elements.

[B214]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

If Technique can be equated to diversity and different ways to use power, then Ise can still be called a Power-type with Technique-type elements. He also happens to have Support elements, though. After all, he does try to use the Dragon Shot in Technique-like ways. He mainly focuses on trying to overpower the opponent by using raw power, but it's not like he doesn't have any Technique elements.

Still it doesn't really make him a technique type in terms of overall fighting style. If it does, Ise would probably count as a Wizard type too with his Dragon Shot, Dress Break etc.

[DragonOsman]

That's why I'm saying he's a Power-type with elements of a Technique-type. As well as elements of a Support-type (because of Gift).

[B214]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

That's why I'm saying he's a Power-type with elements of a Technique-type. As well as elements of a Support-type (because of Gift).

I can't really agree with that. To me, the technique types hallmark is generally countering their opponent. Sirzechs despite being able to overpower Creuserey opted to use his Ruin the Extinct to destroy the snake inside Creuserey before finishing him off. Sun Wukong counters his opponent with precision blocking. That's why i say Ise doesn't count as a technique type even as an element. He doesn't specialized in countering his opponent, he simply overpowers them. You won't see him doing things like sealing the opponent's power, using water to counter fire or making illusions to trick his opponents and so on.

Moving on to another topic, i'm bored with the current one already. My previous comment made me think, should Ise try to develop a long range Dress Break like putting Dress Break into his Dragon Shot.

[DragonOsman]

Putting Dress Break into Dragon Shot sounds good. He'd probably got another face-palm from Rias and the others girls and perhaps even another beating from Koneko, though.

But he won't probably won't do it since it sounds it'd also injure the girl he hits with Dress Break that way.

One note on the "type" discussion: I'm not trying to argue against him being mainly Power-type. I'm just saying that he does try to act diversity and different applications of using his powers into his fighting style, even though he does mainly just fight to try to overpower the opponent.