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Cosmic Eagle · 2014-10-03, 22:04

Dies varies. At the start they are at most one man armies on a global scale. At the end, they are high-end multiversal (multi-metaverse)

KKK most of the cast are generally multi-metaversal. The main protagonists though, are self-contained universes in scale; much lower than many of the main players in the setting. The chief antagonist has literally no upper limit to his power and can be beaten only by targeting a specific weakness

Y Ddraig Goch · 2014-10-03, 22:28

Come to think of it, how did Yato maintain his status as the second strongest? Hajun has his ego powering him up so he doesn't need souls, but Yato must be a different case. Hajun at this point is dominating the multiverse along with the souls in it and not only that, but Yato has to fend off his influence. How does he empower himself? If souls are the determining factor for the taiyoku levels (with the exception of a certain egomaniac), where does he get them from?

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-10-03, 22:35

Ren is different...He never had need for soul quantity because his own soul + those of his Legions are of exceptionally potent quality

And also he can last against Hajun only by dint of pure insanity and hatred, if he were in his normal state he would long have been crushed. That's why at the start he's barely in a coherent state.

shmaster · 2014-10-03, 22:39

Ren is a very special case where a level up occured.
Everyone in Masada verse has a level cap (except Hajun).
To increase that level cap takes extraordinary means.

Ren had kept on pushing his limit to survive in Hajun's world had allowed him to level up into a new height that made him only second to Hajun.

Ren is very defensively oriented in his law to begin with and has Rea's Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika buffing him, AND the fact Hajun isn't actively trying to attack Ren had allowed Ren to survive in Hajun's world for so long.

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-10-03, 23:53

Well even at end of 3 Colors route he was able to match the Snake on just his own merit alone...

I don't think anyone but Ren would have been able to level up like that under pressure from Hajun since they wouldn't have the pre-requisite soul quality to do so even if they could hold off Hajun's Law

Also....was Teresia's 無間衆合地獄 buffing him at the very start? I thought she only used it prior to the final fight against Habaki? And that she never used it at first because Ren didn't want it then seeing how it would sacrifice all of his companions for his sake and pit him directly against Hajun?

shmaster · 2014-10-04, 01:20

Rea is like what Isaac is to the Beast.
Repair and the maintenance of a Hadou God is the most basic function of Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika.
The one she use in the end is like burning all the MP for full healing. So there is no turning back, because the MP is now 0.

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-10-04, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

Rea is like what Isaac is to the Beast.
Repair and the maintenance of a Hadou God is the most basic function of Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika.
The one she use in the end is like burning all the MP for full healing. So there is no turning back, because the MP is now 0.

But was she ever using it even passively?

shmaster · 2014-10-04, 19:35

This is a weird question.
Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika is always passively active.
The only thing she needs to do is simply just be there.

Darkking · 2014-10-04, 19:58

Okay, can someone explain where the "Seat"? I read on the Japanese wiki that in some kind of super-dimensional pole that can not be described. But I would like more detail.

shmaster · 2014-10-04, 22:14

You mean Throne.
Cosmic had explained it just on the previous page. You can take a look.

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-10-04, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

This is a weird question.
Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika is always passively active.
The only thing she needs to do is simply just be there.

Doesn't it use souls though....Whose souls are she burning? Everyone else's?

shmaster · 2014-10-05, 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Doesn't it use souls though....Whose souls are she burning? Everyone else's?

That's when she burned everyone for the full healing at the end.
Normally, Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika is for repairing damaged souls.

Darkking · 2014-10-08, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

You mean Throne.
Cosmic had explained it just on the previous page. You can take a look.

I read. I mean where exactly is the Throne? The Japanese wiki says that here
単純な徒歩や飛翔で辿り着ける場所ではなく、一種の超次元空間であり、言語で説明できない極点。
I would like to know more about it.

Spoiler for This:

Apparently, this is no ordinary space.

By the way i realized that the complexity and size of the Throne may vary and will depend on how complicated it would make Hadou God.
So Satan could expand its universe to the multiverse and more?

shmaster · 2014-10-08, 12:55

Satanel?
No, the concept of multiverse did not existed back in his time.
Such concept is invented by the Snake.

Throne is a product of a research on teleportation and cosmic law back in ancient time.
It is a territory that was constructed to governs the universe.

Cosmic Eagle · 2014-10-08, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkking

I read. I mean where exactly is the Throne? The Japanese wiki says that here
単純な徒歩や飛翔で辿り着ける場所ではなく、一種の超次元空間であり、言語で説明できない極点。
I would like to know more about it.

Spoiler for This:

Apparently, this is no ordinary space.

By the way i realized that the complexity and size of the Throne may vary and will depend on how complicated it would make Hadou God.
So Satan could expand its universe to the multiverse and more?

Throne is not a "space"

It is a metaphysical "device" that spreads through and brings existences under its heel. Thus the Godhead that controls it controls all existence.

It exists in higher dimensions naturally but the actual Throne is not a physical "thing"

And yes, while the cosmology is dependent on the Throne Godhead, everything before the Snake is singular universe because the program for a multiverse did not exist then.

The Snake is a naturally occuring infinite multiverse and when he took the Throne, he passed that property to it, thus Shinza-verse and the Snake effectively became one and the same.

Darkking · 2014-10-10, 13:59

Okay, now I understand.
So Satanel could not have created the multiverse anyway?
And yet, as Habaki could fight Yato? He's much weaker.

shmaster · 2014-10-10, 16:16

No, Satanel simply can't.
Habaki beating Yato? Because of Tumor and Hajun boost.

trexalfa · 2014-10-10, 18:52

This series looks like a really cool one. I'm going to ask some questions, LONG questions, and it really bothers me to ask them, but try to answer them. I would read the VNs myself if I knew enough japanese:

1. Could anyone explain to me in layman terms some concepts, like Briah, Atziluth, Gudou Gods and Hadou Gods? From the thread I've understood various things, but there are still pieces floating around.

2.Who are the Longinus Dreihzen Order? I think I caught that they are part of Reinhard's Legion, but I still know very little. I would be grateful if someone would briefly list their powers plus effects, including Reinhard and Mercurius.

That's all, I hope it's not too much.

Y Ddraig Goch · 2014-10-30, 19:12

Marie's curse was even capable of beheading the Throne God Snake should he ever touch her, right? How is Ren any different? I mean, sure he was made from a portion of Mercurius and Lotus, but what made him exempt from the curse?

Also, was Mercurius her previous wielder? If so, does the curse only apply to those who physically touch her?

Ah, and KKK branches from the Marie route, but was from the bad end or after the route itself is done (after Omnis Vincit Amor afterstory)

erneiz_hyde · 2014-11-01, 06:07

I was just suddenly curious "what was that omnia blabla supposed to mean?"

So I googled a bit, apparently "amor vincit omnia" is "love conquers everything"
Thus I deduced, "omnia vincit amor" means "everything conquers love".

I was like wtf, was this supposed to be foreshadowing the bleak future in KKK? or is this another one of those usual chuuni grammar failure?

2014-10-03, 22:04	Link #1001
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Dies varies. At the start they are at most one man armies on a global scale. At the end, they are high-end multiversal (multi-metaverse) KKK most of the cast are generally multi-metaversal. The main protagonists though, are self-contained universes in scale; much lower than many of the main players in the setting. The chief antagonist has literally no upper limit to his power and can be beaten only by targeting a specific weakness __________________

2014-10-03, 22:35	Link #1003
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Ren is different...He never had need for soul quantity because his own soul + those of his Legions are of exceptionally potent quality And also he can last against Hajun only by dint of pure insanity and hatred, if he were in his normal state he would long have been crushed. That's why at the start he's barely in a coherent state. __________________

2014-10-03, 22:39	Link #1004
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Ren is a very special case where a level up occured. Everyone in Masada verse has a level cap (except Hajun). To increase that level cap takes extraordinary means. Ren had kept on pushing his limit to survive in Hajun's world had allowed him to level up into a new height that made him only second to Hajun. Ren is very defensively oriented in his law to begin with and has Rea's Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika buffing him, AND the fact Hajun isn't actively trying to attack Ren had allowed Ren to survive in Hajun's world for so long. Last edited by shmaster; 2014-10-04 at 01:16.

2014-10-03, 23:53	Link #1005
Cosmic Eagle 今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている Join Date: Jan 2009	Well even at end of 3 Colors route he was able to match the Snake on just his own merit alone... I don't think anyone but Ren would have been able to level up like that under pressure from Hajun since they wouldn't have the pre-requisite soul quality to do so even if they could hold off Hajun's Law Also....was Teresia's 無間衆合地獄 buffing him at the very start? I thought she only used it prior to the final fight against Habaki? And that she never used it at first because Ren didn't want it then seeing how it would sacrifice all of his companions for his sake and pit him directly against Hajun? __________________ Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2014-10-04 at 00:13.

2014-10-30, 19:12	Link #1019
Y Ddraig Goch Chasing Echoes Join Date: Jul 2014	Marie's curse was even capable of beheading the Throne God Snake should he ever touch her, right? How is Ren any different? I mean, sure he was made from a portion of Mercurius and Lotus, but what made him exempt from the curse? Also, was Mercurius her previous wielder? If so, does the curse only apply to those who physically touch her? Ah, and KKK branches from the Marie route, but was from the bad end or after the route itself is done (after Omnis Vincit Amor afterstory) Last edited by Y Ddraig Goch; 2014-10-30 at 19:25.

2014-10-03, 22:28	Link #1002
Y Ddraig Goch Chasing Echoes Join Date: Jul 2014	Come to think of it, how did Yato maintain his status as the second strongest? Hajun has his ego powering him up so he doesn't need souls, but Yato must be a different case. Hajun at this point is dominating the multiverse along with the souls in it and not only that, but Yato has to fend off his influence. How does he empower himself? If souls are the determining factor for the taiyoku levels (with the exception of a certain egomaniac), where does he get them from?

2014-10-04, 01:20	Link #1006
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Rea is like what Isaac is to the Beast. Repair and the maintenance of a Hadou God is the most basic function of Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika. The one she use in the end is like burning all the MP for full healing. So there is no turning back, because the MP is now 0.

2014-10-04, 19:35	Link #1008
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	This is a weird question. Heilige Arche - Goldene Eihwaz Swastika is always passively active. The only thing she needs to do is simply just be there.

2014-10-04, 19:58	Link #1009
Darkking Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Nothingness	Okay, can someone explain where the "Seat"? I read on the Japanese wiki that in some kind of super-dimensional pole that can not be described. But I would like more detail.

2014-10-04, 22:14	Link #1010
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	You mean Throne. Cosmic had explained it just on the previous page. You can take a look.

2014-10-08, 12:55	Link #1014
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	Satanel? No, the concept of multiverse did not existed back in his time. Such concept is invented by the Snake. Throne is a product of a research on teleportation and cosmic law back in ancient time. It is a territory that was constructed to governs the universe.

2014-10-10, 13:59	Link #1016
Darkking Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Nothingness	Okay, now I understand. So Satanel could not have created the multiverse anyway? And yet, as Habaki could fight Yato? He's much weaker.

2014-10-10, 16:16	Link #1017
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	No, Satanel simply can't. Habaki beating Yato? Because of Tumor and Hajun boost.

2014-10-10, 18:52	Link #1018
trexalfa Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014	This series looks like a really cool one. I'm going to ask some questions, LONG questions, and it really bothers me to ask them, but try to answer them. I would read the VNs myself if I knew enough japanese: 1. Could anyone explain to me in layman terms some concepts, like Briah, Atziluth, Gudou Gods and Hadou Gods? From the thread I've understood various things, but there are still pieces floating around. 2.Who are the Longinus Dreihzen Order? I think I caught that they are part of Reinhard's Legion, but I still know very little. I would be grateful if someone would briefly list their powers plus effects, including Reinhard and Mercurius. That's all, I hope it's not too much.

2014-11-01, 06:07	Link #1020
erneiz_hyde 18782+18782=37564 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: InterWebs	I was just suddenly curious "what was that omnia blabla supposed to mean?" So I googled a bit, apparently "amor vincit omnia" is "love conquers everything" Thus I deduced, "omnia vincit amor" means "everything conquers love". I was like wtf, was this supposed to be foreshadowing the bleak future in KKK? or is this another one of those usual chuuni grammar failure? __________________