Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[NeutralZero]

Nice point... it won't explode bec. it can explode...
still if one is to look at the battle or the scene from the surface then it will really look absurd...
similar to how Kira ended up in plants after supposedly dying in seed...

and if the abdomen part is where the reactor is located, it would've blow up already the moment it was pierced (from our understanding... since its like piercing a balloon with a pin...)
since in the original version the explosion was just seen in the surface of the ocean (as far as we remembered) and not the actual unit blowing up, then it is still vague... possibility for survival is not zero...
this is sunrise after all... unless they actually show one character get killed on screen esp main characters then they're not that dead yet...

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Ok, Watched it. Let me break this down.


- nuclear reactors can not cause a nuclear explosion.. EVER! Not in CE and not even in the real world. It's basic physics, but he doesn't seem to get it.

- no one knows where Freedoms nuclear reactor is located. (He is just assuming it's in the abdominal area)

- shutting down a nuclear reactor sounds absurd, but it makes sense in CE. Turning off the reactor would mean that the NJC turns off first. causing the Neutron Jammer‎ to effect the Freedom's reactor immediately. All free moving neutrons will be blocked and the Freedom's nuclear reactor will turn into an empty shell... It all works out.

- The last part of this battle is edited using a cinematic technique calked cross-cutting, this technique is often used to show the relation between different sets of action that occur simultaneously. It also creates suspense when used properly. So cutting between shots of the Impulse - Freedom fight and the Minerva - Archangel fight in this case is intentional. It's supposed to give the audience the impression that every action (shot by shot) is happening simultaneously and not one after the other like this guy is trying to argue.

And this is why his main argument (nuclear explosion, LOLz) doesn't hold up. Also, showing a frame of an explosion does not hold up in an argument like this. For example, he is showing a frame of an initial impact explosion when the Tannhauser hits the Archangel or the water and assume that this is the only explosion from the antimatter beam and that it has nothing to do with the big explosion at the end.. And he is also ignoring the fact that a large amount of antimatter is coming in contact with a an even larger amount of matter (the ocean). ...You can even see a red line between the Minerva and the center of the explosion (00,55 - 00,56 Episode 35), making it clear that the giant explosion is from the Tannhauser hitting the Archangel and / or the ocean and not the Freedom exploding. This single point alone is enough to debunk his entire argument.

His points don't hold up and he is not bringing anything new to the table either, we have already discussed every single point he brought up in this forum years ago. People here did a MUCH better job in pointing out all the bullshit in this episode than this youtube kid. I'm not impressed.


And I also have to agree with Monster on this one. Next time if you want to make point do it yourself instead of just linking me to some guy who makes the point for you. It's ok to use reference, but make your point here first. Because otherwise I'll have to presume that you agree with everything he says.

1. Justice self destructing blew up genesis and nuclear missiles....well you know.

2. Well, it's probable that it;s in the abdomen since the upper chest is the cockpit.

It's because you see the beam hit the water that the beam's power would decrease. But yes, as wackymodder pointed out, if that explosion was the Archangel, it would be destroyed. You remember the Dominion blowing up? that explosion was small compared to that huge orange dome.

[NeutralZero]

True Justice did blew up
but the n-jammer canceler at that was still functioning...
kinda like a circuit with no fuse burning up due to high current
while the freedom/ Kira turned off the N-jammer thus cutting all power of his unit thus allowing the N-jammers to manifest thus stopping the reaction of the reactor...
in S1 or the orinal seed there's a portion during the introduction of the justice, it was shown that the nuclear reactor is small, can't we actually pinpoint the area since they just do a close up so it is still possible to be located in the chest area, probably near the back

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

True Justice did blew up
but the n-jammer canceler at that was still functioning...
kinda like a circuit with no fuse burning up due to high current
while the freedom/ Kira turned off the N-jammer thus cutting all power of his unit thus allowing the N-jammers to manifest thus stopping the reaction of the reactor...
in S1 or the orinal seed there's a portion during the introduction of the justice, it was shown that the nuclear reactor is small, can't we actually pinpoint the area since they just do a close up so it is still possible to be located in the chest area, probably near the back

Even so, he can't stop the reaction when he's being impaled. Or even if he did, what makes you think the beam saber can't restart the reaction by itself?

But I think the final message is this: Fukuda has NO idea what he was doing.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

and if the abdomen part is where the reactor is located, it would've blow up already the moment it was pierced

A nuclear reactor doesn't go critical that quickly( let alone it won't cause a nuclear explosion when it does go critical). It would take time for a compromised nuclear reactor to meltdown.

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

in S1 or the orinal seed there's a portion during the introduction of the justice, it was shown that the nuclear reactor is small, can't we actually pinpoint the area since they just do a close up so it is still possible to be located in the chest area, probably near the back

I'm still betting it's in belly in the back. Right below the reactor looks to be the Justice's waist. Since the Justice and Freedom share a basic frame, I'm betting Freedom's reactor is in the same spot.

[CBredbeard]

We don't know how the nuclear reactors work in the CE, but we do know what they're capable of. That they can stop nuclear reactions on a dime. They can they can cause nuclear reactions to go haywire when they shouldn't (the Stampeder).

Maybe the way MS reactors work is rather than fuel rods having pressure exerted on them, they are instead bombarded with neutrons in a controlled manner? And if this bombardment were ramped up spontaneously, maybe the fuel would detonate in an explosion?

We also don't know if the reactors would explode just because of being damaged. Even if the reaction wasn't catastrophic, it's still a tub of radiation sitting pretty right under a pilot's feet. Shutting it down so as to not expose the pilot to contamination is a good fail safe to put in place.

[monster]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

It's because you see the beam hit the water that the beam's power would decrease. But yes, as wackymodder pointed out, if that explosion was the Archangel, it would be destroyed. You remember the Dominion blowing up? that explosion was small compared to that huge orange dome.

It wasn't the Archangel that blew up. The explosion was caused by the Tannhauser beam hitting the water.

Here's another thing regarding the Freedom:

If it was a nuclear explosion, the Impulse wouldn't have survived and there would've been visible effect where the Impulse was. Instead, we saw that the place where the Impulse was had cleared pretty quickly and the large smoking area left was at a distance, where the Tannhauser beam hit the water. Oh, and of course, the Impulse itself survived.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

Maybe the way MS reactors work is rather than fuel rods having pressure exerted on them, they are instead bombarded with neutrons in a controlled manner? And if this bombardment were ramped up spontaneously, maybe the fuel would detonate in an explosion?

You're describing nuclear fusion where two atoms are forced together( if I understand fusion correctly). CE nuclear powered suits are nuclear fission reactors where the atom is split.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by monster

It wasn't the Archangel that blew up. The explosion was caused by the Tannhauser beam hitting the water.

Here's another thing regarding the Freedom:

If it was a nuclear explosion, the Impulse wouldn't have survived and there would've been visible effect where the Impulse was. Instead, we saw that the place where the Impulse was had cleared pretty quickly and the large smoking area left was at a distance, where the Tannhauser beam hit the water. Oh, and of course, the Impulse itself survived.

Um, like wacky pointed out. THe fact that Shinn (and Kira) is alive is BAD writing, as the plot shields were on full force. And, post explosion, the Impulse was badly melted in places, which means that there was a huge wave of heat which would make sense as the explosion from the Freedom.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Um, like wacky pointed out. THe fact that Shinn (and Kira) is alive is BAD writing, as the plot shields were on full force. And, post explosion, the Impulse was badly melted in places, which means that there was a huge wave of heat which would make sense as the explosion from the Freedom.

Why wouldn't the heat from the Tannhauser explosion be enough to damage the Impulse? That was a big explosion…..

[monster]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Um, like wacky pointed out. THe fact that Shinn (and Kira) is alive is BAD writing, as the plot shields were on full force. And, post explosion, the Impulse was badly melted in places, which means that there was a huge wave of heat which would make sense as the explosion from the Freedom.

Uh, have you seen the explosion from the Aegis and the Gouf? A big explosion does not need to be nuclear.

Again, there was an explosion, but not a nuclear explosion. Otherwise, the Impulse would've been totally destroyed.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by monster

Uh, have you seen the explosion from the Aegis and the Gouf? A big explosion does not need to be nuclear.

Again, there was an explosion, but not a nuclear explosion. Otherwise, the Impulse would've been totally destroyed.

The explosions of the Aegis and the Gouf were NOTHING as big as that. And BECAUSE the explosion of the Gouf was underwater, most of the energy was dispersed in the water. Aegis was on ground, hence nothing to decrease energy/heat of explosion. And if it was the explosion IN/UNDER the water, then all you would see is a tidal wave, and not the orange explosion (which means that it has to be ABOVE water).

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by monster

Uh, have you seen the explosion from the Aegis and the Gouf? A big explosion does not need to be nuclear.

Again, there was an explosion, but not a nuclear explosion. Otherwise, the Impulse would've been totally destroyed.

Well an explosion on the Aegis's magnitude wouldn't be enough to damage the Impulse to the extent to that it was. As seen with the the Strike surviving at point blank the Aegis's explosion with minimal external damage. So we know a PSA equipped MS can survive an explosion of the Aegis's magnitude( and who knows the repairs needed if the Strike didn't have its left arm chopped off and cockpit exposed which allowed the heat to get into the Strike's vital areas).

The Impulse was caught in a larger explosion which the Tannhaeuser's explosion would be bigger than an MS's self-destruct explosion.

Also if they were worried about the Freedom causing a nuclear explosion, Rey's strategy wouldn't have relied on Shinn being able to get close to the Freedom to stab it with the anti-ship sword.

[monster]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

The explosions of the Aegis and the Gouf were NOTHING as big as that.

And obviously the Freedom explosion weren't much bigger either because, again, the area around Impulse cleared up pretty quickly.

And BECAUSE the explosion of the Gouf was underwater, most of the energy was dispersed in the water. Aegis was on ground, hence nothing to decrease energy/heat of explosion.

The Freedom would've done the same as with the Gouf.

And if it was the explosion IN/UNDER the water, then all you would see is a tidal wave, and not the orange explosion (which means that it has to be ABOVE water).

That may or ma not be true, but the big cloud of smoke is the one at a distance. So whatever it is that makes it orange, it's still not the Freedom.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by monster

And obviously the Freedom explosion weren't much bigger either because, again, the area around Impulse cleared up pretty quickly. The Freedom would've done the same as with the Gouf. That may or ma not be true, but the big cloud of smoke is the one at a distance. So whatever it is that makes it orange, it's still not the Freedom.

Cleared up quickly? It was a long explosion that was rapidly expanding that even damaged the nearby coast. It's BECAUSE the explosion is orange that it is ABOVE water. Have you seen explosions caused by underwater volcanoes, you don't see huge orange eruptions (unless the opening is close to water surface)

You also seem to forget that this explosion was strong enough to PUSH the minerva back. If it was the explosion was from the water, it wouldn't push the Minerva back, which means that this explosion had to come from another source.

Well, Rey probably suggested for Shinn to RUN as soon as he impaled the suit. But Shinn was too obsessed with hugging the bomb rather than run away.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Cleared up quickly? It was a long explosion that was rapidly expanding that even damaged the nearby coast. It's BECAUSE the explosion is orange that it is ABOVE water. Have you seen explosions caused by underwater volcanoes, you don't see huge orange eruptions (unless the opening is close to water surface)

You also seem to forget that this explosion was strong enough to PUSH the minerva back. If it was the explosion was from the water, it wouldn't push the Minerva back, which means that this explosion had to come from another source.

Well, Rey probably suggested for Shinn to RUN as soon as he impaled the suit. But Shinn was too obsessed with hugging the bomb rather than run away.

There was plenty of times when the Minerva fired the Tannhauser and was pushed back from the explosion/force caused by it. For example when they were attacking the Lohengrin position and it was blocked by the positron shield equipped MS/mobile armor.

[monster]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Cleared up quickly? It was a long explosion that was rapidly expanding that even damaged the nearby coast. It's BECAUSE the explosion is orange that it is ABOVE water. Have you seen explosions caused by underwater volcanoes, you don't see huge orange eruptions (unless the opening is close to water surface)

There was an orange explosion when the Tannhauser beam hit the water.

You also seem to forget that this explosion was strong enough to PUSH the minerva back. If it was the explosion was from the water, it wouldn't push the Minerva back, which means that this explosion had to come from another source.

We can see the line of fire pointing straight from the Minerva to the explosion that pushed it back, and the Minerva was firing at the Archangel, not the Freedom.

Well, Rey probably suggested for Shinn to RUN as soon as he impaled the suit. But Shinn was too obsessed with hugging the bomb rather than run away.

We see that there was smoke around where the Impulse was and the debris below it, so it's clearly a different explosion than the much bigger one we see at the distance.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by quagmire

You're describing nuclear fusion where two atoms are forced together( if I understand fusion correctly). CE nuclear powered suits are nuclear fission reactors where the atom is split.

Nuclear reactors work when plutonium or uranium are pressed together. The free flow of neutrons between the bundles of fuel causes the fission reaction. Control rods dampen this effect, otherwise the fuel bundles would overheat and meltdown.

Nuclear warheads have bits of uranium slammed together into a larger mass using conventional explosives.

[n0m@n]

I wonder if the remastered edition will get rid of recap episodes since they did get rid of them for the GS remastered. I think there was two episodes or something which was like a recap(Also including Meer episode which didnt seem that important).

[monster]

We'll get to a recap episode in a few weeks, so we'll know then. I think the Meer one will stay unless they put the new material into another episode.