To Aru Majutsu no Index - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Bordix]

Y'know, Touma could have just HELD ON TO Accelerator with his right hand, and beat the crap out of him with his left...

He would die if he use his left. (IB = right arm only)

Spoiler for Manga:

http://www.onemanga.com/To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index/18/23/

Just to clear things up

It also explains a few things like why Touma doesn't try to negate the plasma. It's compressed air, and I think Accel says so. Negate the compression vector change and you get an explosion...

I must have missed something, Never recalled Acc saying that and I also doubt he figured out Touma's power.

Anyways, new OP next episode right? I can't w8 for 2nd op, I've just heard it and it was nice

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chicken

(Another possible explanation: while he can negate the vector change, he can't negate MOMENTUM...)

This is kind of contradictory with the rest of your post. If he can't negate momentum, there's no difference between the railgun and Accelerator throwing things at him. On one hand you've got a coin that's being accelerated by magnetic forces generated by psychic electricity, and on the other hand you've got a metal rail being accelerated by psychic vector control. Take out the psychic powers with his negation and you've still got a piece of metal moving very fast. Incidentally, you could theoretically fire a metal rail using the railgun principle too...

If he can negate momentum, then... well it opens up a can of worms regarding his power. Does that means he can negate supernatural effects and anything directly caused by them? Could he revive people killed by mages? That would sort of follow from being able to stop the railgun... You'd have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere and it just doesn't make any sense. The simple explanation is that he can't stop a railgun, ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

Y'know, Touma could have just HELD ON TO Accelerator with his right hand, and beat the crap out of him with his left...

His hand negates effects, it doesn't seal powers. Even if he grabs Accelerator's arm, the rest of Accelerator's body still has the reflection field, making Touma's other fist useless.

It also explains a few things like why Touma doesn't try to negate the plasma. It's compressed air, and I think Accel says so. Negate the compression vector change and you get an explosion...

Plasma is also very hot. From the way they were talking about, it seems to be an indirect effect just like momentum, so he couldn't negate it anyway. And as I said earlier, negating indirect effects makes no sense at all and is a slippery slope into complete nonsense.

[Ultimate Chicken]

Spoiler for Manga:
http://www.onemanga.com/To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index/18/23/
Just to clear things up

So how come under the same circumstances Mikoto can't shock him into submission? (Either that or she just isn't smart enough to use her OTHER hand that time she tried to grab onto him...)

Also, if Accel could kill him that way then by all rights Kuroko should be able to Teleport him no problem. SHE DIDN'T TOUCH THE RIGHT HAND.

That particular scene from the manga sounds like Touma can't quite remember how the IB works anymore due to Deus Ex Machina, and doesn't want to push his luck.

Also, keep in mind that a punch is not a grab; if that sends Accel flying backwards the right fist is not always in contact with Accel's face, which means Accel can technically use his powers again. Touma's just lucky Accel isn't a good street brawler if not that particular scenario WILL happen. >_>

His hand negates effects, it doesn't seal powers. Even if he grabs Accelerator's arm, the rest of Accelerator's body still has the reflection field, making Touma's other fist useless.

That's assuming Accel's field power is like the pinpoint barrier system on the SDF 1, and there's no evidence it is.... in any case if Touma can only dissipate ONE ability at a time by touching magic then he should not nullify BOTH Accel's reflection field and speed at the same time...

If he can negate momentum, then... well it opens up a can of worms regarding his power. Does that means he can negate supernatural effects and anything directly caused by them? Could he revive people killed by mages? That would sort of follow from being able to stop the railgun... You'd have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere and it just doesn't make any sense. The simple explanation is that he can't stop a railgun, ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

Well there IS evidence that the IB does somewhat have an effect on momentum OR indirect effects...

I mean, in Kagaku No Railgun he can dissipate *part of* a black hole bomb explosion even if it wasn't a direct effect - take special note that the black hole bomb itself was NOT dissipated and still damaged the scenery.

I have no idea why he does NOT manage to dissipate any part of the dust explosion in episode 13/14 even when he's perfectly capable of doing so... I think he just forgot he could.

As for drawing a fine line, I think the IB failing to restore his memories is already a good enough limitation. Don't know how to explain it... its like the IB (for example) can stop a spell that's demolishing a building in progress, but can't rebuild the demolished building after the spell has done its work, and there's no ESP/magical energy flowing anymore.

His hand negates effects, it doesn't seal powers.

You're right, but John's Pen Mode Index kinda hints that as long as he's around magic might not work correctly. I'd think that it's an equivalent of a seal just so long as the right hand remains in contact with the target. The aforementioned Touma's fight with Mikoto seems to suggest this; as soon as Mikoto grabs his right hand NOTHING HAPPENS when she even thinks of shocking him.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chicken

So how come under the same circumstances Mikoto can't shock him into submission? (Either that or she just isn't smart enough to use her OTHER hand that time she tried to grab onto him...)

The latter. She didn't know that Touma's power was limited to the hand that she happened to grab and was too confused by her initial failure to shock him, so she never thought to try touching him elsewhere before their 'fight' ended. That's from the Railgun manga, which has messed up his power before, so not entirely reliable.

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chicken

Also, if Accel could kill him that way then by all rights Kuroko should be able to Teleport him no problem. SHE DIDN'T TOUCH THE RIGHT HAND.

Not if teleportation doesn't operate according to the arbitrary way you are assuming it does. Perhaps Kuroko's power failed because her power requires getting a 'fix' of some sort on the entire object in question. Touma's right hand refuses to be teleported and negates the fix, so the whole thing fails. Maybe she could have teleported him sans right arm? Accelerator's power doesn't require affecting the entire target like that.

I don't know if that's how it is, but it's a probable explanation.

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chicken

That's assuming Accel's field power is like the pinpoint barrier system on the SDF 1, and there's no evidence it is.... in any case if Touma can only dissipate ONE ability at a time by touching magic then he should not nullify BOTH Accel's reflection field and speed at the same time...

Accelerator only has one ability. Everything is caused by changing vectors--speed, reflection, whatever.

Originally Posted by Ultimate Chicken

Well there IS evidence that the IB does somewhat have an effect on momentum OR indirect effects...

I mean, in Kagaku No Railgun he can dissipate *part of* a black hole bomb explosion even if it wasn't a direct effect - take special note that the black hole bomb itself was NOT dissipated and still damaged the scenery.

So? When Touma negated Mikoto's lightning, the whole thing didn't disappear all the way back to her, just the stuff that was pushing on him. Same principle. And again, Railgun not entirely reliable.

[kingsky123]

clearly touma's power scales according to how the author wants it.. just like how sometimes the hulk can destroy planets and yet somehow lose to spiderman.

[npcomplete]

^^^ lol, applying IB on the analysis of IB

"People like you wouldn't know how to street fight", says the "thug"
haha

but probably true for most non-Level 0's

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Accelerator really sucks that guy can't even street fight. Touma owns that sucker.

[SwiftStrike]

Everyone's got a weakness i guess...or else theres no way of winning.
although i do admit...Accelerator did less damage than i thought

[kache]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Accelerator was not stupid. He was a arrogant, sadistic, and bat crazy. A person can be a total genius, consciously recognize that a defense doesn't work, and still be so convinced of his own power and superiority that he thinks it won't matter. He must've at least figured that his power might work on Touma, if he actually managed to directly touch him. In other words, Touma has to keep hitting Acc over and over, but one touch and Acc could kill Touma so thoroughly that there'd be nothing left to bury. Obsessed with his own power, he couldn't conceive of the idea that Touma would be able to KO him before he'd ever get a chance to land a blow of his own. Moreover, throwing was somewhat less accurate(though not to the level of stormtrooper marksmanship), especially with a guy who knew how to handle a fight, so going straight for him was the most certain way to kill. More importantly to Acc though, I think, was the fact that a distance attack would rob him of the immeasurable pleasure of personally feeling the moment of Touma's death beneath his fingers, not to mention he wouldn't be able to produce the sort of carnage he likes so much. He couldn't bear to miss such a thing, especially since he was destroying the only challenge to his power. Finally, in his enjoyment of the game, he seems to have initially enjoyed the added thrill of being able to receive pain back. Even the idea of putting himself into a situation where he too may die was entertaining to his warped psyche.
I say Accelerator was smart, he just made a couple mistakes and missed a couple points of the guidelines to successful villainy: First, do not play with your enemy. If there's any chance he might be able to put up a fight, kill him immediately and find a more docile recipient for your sadistic games; Second, never, ever allow yourself to think for even a moment that you are "invincible", because you'll inevitable be disillusioned quickly; Third, get a thorough psych treatment to ensure that you have the ability to suppress your more colorful appetites.

Completely agree, expecially the rules of the perfect villain.

[frubam]

Spoiler for Manga:
http://www.onemanga.com/To_Aru_Majutsu_no_Index/18/23/
Just to clear things up

That's SOOO funny! There's no way Acc could take a punch right in the face like that and remain unflinched .

[-Sho-]

Just watch ep 14 :

Well accelerator was just like a punching ball ! Punch powaa !
(So , if you want to beat Touma , you should cut his right arm its all )
Too easy !
He will got around 10000 girls in his harem OMG !
Seems like ep 15 , Misaka (the true) will jump on Touma !

Ahah accelerator try the genkidama ....

Note 6/10

[FlareKnight]

Well something felt a bit off with this. Though suppose it makes sense for Accelerator to abandon the things that were helping him with the fight and instead just charge in there which kept on failing. Maybe that's the only way Touma could win but wasn't all that entertaining to watch.

[Shiroi Hane]

Originally Posted by Clarste

If he can't negate momentum, there's no difference between the railgun and Accelerator throwing things at him. On one hand you've got a coin that's being accelerated by magnetic forces generated by psychic electricity, and on the other hand you've got a metal rail being accelerated by psychic vector control. Take out the psychic powers with his negation and you've still got a piece of metal moving very fast. Incidentally, you could theoretically fire a metal rail using the railgun principle too...

I don't know about the manga/novels, but in the first episode I thought she aimed to miss with the coin?

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Shiroi Hane

I don't know about the manga/novels, but in the first episode I thought she aimed to miss with the coin?

That's what I thought too, which is one of the reasons that I don't think he can negate it.

[shcfyd]

Originally Posted by Forever

Whoa 9969 misakas. Even if he bangs 1 per day, he will need 27+ years to complete one cycle. Though technically impossible as they possibly couldnt last that long.

eh? i don't get that last part...

Spoiler for Possible Spoiler:

but that reminds me... how could Acc. possibly kill so many ;_; i mean, the 'experiments' finish fast...but he doesn't seem to do more than one a day...and even then. I guess the exception would be those brief glimpses of the warehouse that replaced the alley scene in the manga. Maybe if Acc. did more fights like that the number could be more plausible.

i like that change btw(eps 12&13), its too bad they showed so little >.>

[dahak]

Originally Posted by kingsky123

clearly touma's power scales according to how the author wants it.. just like how sometimes the hulk can destroy planets and yet somehow lose to spiderman.

One thing I've noticed. Komoe's explanation of Esper abilities comes out very close to Ars Magna.

Touma's negation of esoteric effects is not quite as limited as he seems to make out. He can't be teleported remember, even though from earlier fights he should have been touching himself to stop it from occuring.

From what Komoe said Touma can stop anything he believes he can stop. Unfortunately for him he appears to believe he has to take damage.

[IppoTsuko]

the thing i hate about most villians is that they keep giving chances (look at aizen!)