To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 21 Discussion / Poll

[mark1246]

ok im confuse, cause it was stated on twitter or the To aru universe FB i think. but was the person that found an interview from Kamachi that stated he apologize for the wait between NT 19 & NT20 since he had bad health issue, i don't see that any here in the after word?

was that fake or true? thank you

[Fortitude]

Huh anyone else notice dniv isn't here?

You think he would jump into the discussion by now.

[OH&S]

^He reads the volume after its fully translated.

[Doe, John]

Is it just me, or was there a lot of focus on Touma being an idiot in this volume? I know that he's always been portrayed as book dumb, but there seemed to be even more emphasis on it this time. Maybe it was just because he was around two super geniuses

My guess as to how Coronzon will be handled:

Spoiler:

She will attempt to possess Touma by only possessing his brain, reasoning that his power is limited to his right hand (after all, that's how World Rejector works) and that she can prevent his right hand from touching his head by controlling the nerve signals. She'll then discover that (a) she's not alone in there, giving us a Demon vs Dragons fight; and (b) that it was a really bad idea to possess the One Who Purifies Gods and Slays Demons.

[Ravagerblade]

Originally Posted by Doe, John

Is it just me, or was there a lot of focus on Touma being an idiot in this volume? I know that he's always been portrayed as book dumb, but there seemed to be even more emphasis on it this time. Maybe it was just because he was around two super geniuses

My guess as to how Coronzon will be handled:

Spoiler:

She will attempt to possess Touma by only possessing his brain, reasoning that his power is limited to his right hand (after all, that's how World Rejector works) and that she can prevent his right hand from touching his head by controlling the nerve signals. She'll then discover that (a) she's not alone in there, giving us a Demon vs Dragons fight; and (b) that it was a really bad idea to possess the One Who Purifies Gods and Slays Demons.

I'm actually hoping there's a reason why he's not as intelligent as what he should be, being an AC student which should be at an advanced level on top of all the magician stuff he's had to deal with.

[Marina2]

Spoiler for Hamazura and Dion Fortune:

His quest seems to be very hard but if he can bring back Dion Fortune, then the same can happen to other golden magicians including Mathers ,right?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by OH&S

^He reads the volume after its fully translated.

I just finished~~~~!!!!!!!! Commenting on this tomorrow. THIS WAS MY FAVORITE VOLUME YET. MASTERPIECE CLASSIC. JUST FREAKING INCREDIBLE. D

Man, now THAT was exactly what we've been needing after all this time. SO MANY GOOD THINGS HAPPENED and a lot of great plot points were foreshadowed. So many characters got good character development like Index, Misaka, Misaki, Kanzaki, Orsola, Aleister, hell, Hamazura, and even Accelerator and Qlipoth 545. Basically, just wow. This volume was pretty amazing. And it still somehow managed to end on an insane cliff. This wait is going to be hype as hell. I'm so excited!

This is exactly what this series should be. After so long, he finally managed to write an extremely good volume again. This was just incredible. I'll post a longer review ... on Monday night after I finish my two midterms.


Oh yeah, ALSO NOUKAN and the frog doctor. NOUKAN FTW.

Also, the writing quality itself was very high including all of the metaphors and themes and ideas and writing and set up. It was just levels above what the series has been recently. Truly a welcome sight!

[Fortitude]

Wait Kanzaki was in this?

Where was she last scene?

I think i kinda missed it.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Doe, John

Is it just me, or was there a lot of focus on Touma being an idiot in this volume? I know that he's always been portrayed as book dumb, but there seemed to be even more emphasis on it this time. Maybe it was just because he was around two super geniuses .

You pretty much just gave yourself the answer.

--------------

This was a great volume. I like how everyone had something to do, except Hamazura and Takitsubo who I still question the reason for their involvement. Basically, Hamazura's motivation changed from "Protect Lilith" to "Save Dion" in an obvious move by Kamachi to give him something to possibly do next volume.

Loved all of the interactions (even if some did seem unnecessary) but my favorite was definitely Touma and Mikotos, it may have been short but that exchange on the bike definitely showed how their interactions have evolved and how it keeps evolving.

Touma also finally let's Mikoto be a part of "his world" (but he's been doing that for a while now to some extent, except this time he is letting her see the real stuff), it's been a long time coming. Now all they need is to have that talk they keep mentioning, but knowing Kamachi we will have to wait a few years for that to happen.

Never would have guessed that Aleister of all people would become a saint. I personally loved how their fight just devolved into a fist fight which seemed more fitting than a flashy show of magic.

Overall it was a great volume, if I had fo score it I would give it a 8 75/10. Had to take out points due to Hamazura's parts feeling like filler with too many interactions and not enough involvement.

[Inept Forum User]

Originally Posted by Fortitude

Wait Kanzaki was in this?

Where was she last scene?

I think i kinda missed it.

Chapter 3.

[alex_drian]

Aleister and Matters going Super Jesus and crosspunched each other have to be one of the best parts of all NT if not all Index.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by alex_drian

Aleister and Matters going Super Jesus and crosspunched each other have to be one of the best parts of all NT if not all Index.

Yeah lmao. That was awesome. Especially aleister becoming a saint.

The best part was that I really thought Aleister might die so the tension was high.

[Wandering Soul]

Now that it's over, I can see why everyone that already read it had nothing but praise for it. We've been waiting for a while for volumes that focused on Aleister and the recent ones are definitely delivering.

Some of the highlights of the volume for me:

-The banter between Touma, Accelerator, and Aleister.
-The Misaka and Misaki banter
-Itsuwa, Saji and the rest of the Amakusa finally returning, even if it was only in a cameo.
-Index taking steps to support Touma
-Accelerator showing off how much he has grown by his final scene with 545.
-Aleister dealing with his issues about Christianity. I love the fact that it was Orsola that helped him deal with it and even forgave him.
-Do I even need to mention Aleister's final fight with Mathers?

The only real thing that bugs me is being left waiting for Shiage and Takitsubo. So far they still feel superfluous to this entire conflict.

[shmaster]

Good to see all of you are as excited as I do.
I was pulling my hairs off when I finished reading.

I was never this compelled in watching a loli con seducing a loli into his harem. Just who is the devil here exactly?

I was shocked to find out there's even more humanity in Aleister from his exchange with Mathers and Accelerator, when I thought we were already exposed all of him.

The Crimson Impact perhaps is my single most favorite moment of magic casting.

Heaven Canceller, just who are you!? But if the great Noukan can't even tell, then I guess it is truly hopeless to ask.

Childhood has ended!! CHILDHOOD HAS ENDED I TOLD YOU!
Unbelievable, the ascension of Aleister!

And finally... AAAAUUUGGHHHH The demon LIEEEESSSSSSS!!!!


Now, serious question. Do you think Anna Sprengel is someone we already know?
Is it Mathers the one who talked about her? Or is it someone else?
Most importantly, what does that short discussion about her has identical writing style as the one scene where the Crowley Hazard gets wiped out?

[Requiem-x]

So, we're in agreement this was a great volume? Because this was great volume, in fact, it's easily one of the best volumes we've had, period; action, humour, sadness, growth, surprises, a healthy amount of Misaki and Othinus, it really did have everything you could ask from Index right now. Even the meandering with Shiage was fun thanks to Nephtys, Niang, and eventually Dion.

Favorite parts
-Best dog is back! Missing his trademark way of speaking, but still. I actually thought I was getting trolled and refused to believe it at first, but its Noukan, alright.
-Othinus both marking her territory to Aleister and Misaki and giving Touma a boner (I'm assuming that's what happened during the horse sequence).
-Nephtys and Niang-Niang messing with Dion.
-Pretty much everything regarding Misaki and Mikoto (on a separate note, I was surprised at how much of a "normal" girl Misaki is still. I mean, it makes sense, but it caught me off guard regardless).
-Birdy and Lessar getting her life goals shattered after seeing Dion.
-Did Touma just trick one of the Golden magicians into crashing by looking away? If so, awesome!
-"Oh, a gift from heaven". That entire sequence was gold.
-As pretty much everyone else pointed out, Alesiter coming to terms with his life long hatred of christianity, thanks to Orsola, of all people, was great.
-The entire Mathers-Aleister fight: very glad to see it got the lenght it deserved, and was as crazy as you might expect. Funny thing, I suspected for a long time that whatever big final fight might be in store for Aleister would be reduced to a brawl with a lot of talk in between punches (I mean, there was more to it after, but that was still intense), but of course, I always thought it would be Touma on the other side. Goes to show how this series can surprise you after a decade.
-Yet another great moment of growth for Accel, which also served as a big hero moment. That's how you get a new harem member.
-Shiage finally has something to do! One of my big problems with him in WWIII was that everything he did after saving Rikou felt pretty much tagged on compared with what Touma and Accel were going through, but this time the meandering came first, and it was fun to boot, and its only at the climax there's a clear goal for him, and one I'm behind for.

About the Shiage just being there there issue, I think its inevitable, since at the end of the day, he's supposed to be just a guy, so his role is mostly what Accel said, the small glitch that can cause a big failure by being in the right place and the right time. On that note, I still think Dion's personal mario kart prize box is going to have an effect on things by the end of this arc, given the emphasis it was given to the randomness of it and how important "random" is to Index as a whole.

Ohhhh, this was a good one, and I'm alreayd looking forward to the next.

[Keila]

Something's been bothering me and it cropped up again this time around.

Spoiler for Quotes:

+ Aleister would not allow any random victims from the usage of magic, so she kept it all contained inside her own body.
+ She could not have relied on healing magic. She might save someone else’s life, but she could not save her own life. Because if she stayed true to her principles, the healing magic would heal her body, but then the side effects and reactions would damage her body.

Academy City Espers fundamentally cannot use magic (because they damage their own bodies) but is that just simply because Aleister set them up that way (to 'self-contain' the effects of any magic)?

+ Aleister is effectively the root of modern magic
+ Aleister is effectively the root of modern espers


I can't recall any explicit scenarios where they explained what the incompatibility (Espers using magic) was actually caused by.

+ Tsuchimikado is evidence that you can give a magic user esper powers (AC method) without problems
+ It should be possible to (theoretically) thus convert anyone into an Esper
+ Tsuchimikado, Accelerator and Misaka have all 'cast magic' to varying extents (and suffered self-inflicted damage as a result)



Gemstones are the 'naturally occurring' espers. They had their powers without the need for AC interference. If the incompatibility is simply caused by Aleisters methods to convert non-gemstones into Espers then wouldn't gemstones be able to use magic without any backlash?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Now, serious question. Do you think Anna Sprengel is someone we already know?
Is it Mathers the one who talked about her? Or is it someone else?
Most importantly, what does that short discussion about her has identical writing style as the one scene where the Crowley Hazard gets wiped out?

I have a little theory about that, though my evidence is basically non-existent. If it is true then, I'd have to take my hat off to Kamachi.

Originally Posted by Keila

Academy City Espers fundamentally cannot use magic (because they damage their own bodies) but is that just simply because Aleister set them up that way (to 'self-contain' the effects of any magic)?

It could very well be deliberate, though I think if Aleister could do that, he'd simply set it up so they couldn't do magic at all.

We know that sparks appear as a result of phases colliding. I think that since espers are connected to their own Personal Reality, any sparks they generate stay inside them instead of going out into the world.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I have a little theory about that, though my evidence is basically non-existent. If it is true then, I'd have to take my hat off to Kamachi.

Do tell, I am very interested.

[Keila]

Originally Posted by Endscape

It could very well be deliberate, though I think if Aleister could do that, he'd simply set it up so they couldn't do magic at all.

We know that sparks appear as a result of phases colliding. I think that since espers are connected to their own Personal Reality, any sparks they generate stay inside them instead of going out into the world.

I'm under the impression that he can't fundamentally stop magic.

Back in OT he made Vento self-inflict damage via the use of Kazakiri to more or less overwrite the rules of the world within the area of effect. Obviously Vento isn't an esper but the same 'result' occurred for the duration.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Do tell, I am very interested.

My theory is that Anna Sprengel's true identity is

Spoiler:

Index.

To expand on that.

Spoiler:

I first thought of this theory when I began wondering about some things, some of which I had wondered about before, but simply dismissed:

• Where does Index come from?

• How did Coronzon, (because it must have been Coronzon) find her?

• Why can she keep so many grimoires in her head like she does?

• Why did Coronzon go through all the trouble to cram said grimoires in her mind, and then leave her in Aleister's stronghold?

• What is Index's real name?

• How does Coronzon, of all beings, just happen to have a real body to play with?

Then I thought about Anna Sprengel, who is noted to have the same ability to be in two places at once as Aleister, and Aleister who can appear as different possibilities of himself, which is when it hit me.

What if Index is Anna Sprengel's main body, changed just like Aleister's was, and Coronzon's body is a stray possibility like Crowley's Hazards?

Coronzon can't get rid of her, because that would be the end of her too. She can erase her memories of herself, but she can't get rid of her magical knowledge. She can lock her up and take away her ability to cast magic, but she's a Secret Chief, she would eventually get out of it. How do you control someone like that?

You gaslight them. You make them go around and memorize grimoires containing knowledge they already know, then teach that amnesiac child that she's a grimoire library, so that she never suspects why she knows so much about magic and so she never thinks to do anything with it beyond what she's told.

The fact that just when we get some solid info on Anna is when we see Index getting a little character development and seeing through Coronzon's tricks also doesn't seem like a coincidence in that vein.

It's a very rough theory with little evidence, but I think it's interesting.

Originally Posted by Keila

I'm under the impression that he can't fundamentally stop magic.

Back in OT he made Vento self-inflict damage via the use of Kazakiri to more or less overwrite the rules of the world within the area of effect. Obviously Vento isn't an esper but the same 'result' occurred for the duration.

The Artifical Heaven was what messed Vento up, perhaps it simply doesn't let sparks escape, like an esper's Personal Reality.