Log Horizon - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

^ I think they decided that Akatsuki in a cute dress will kill scores of their viewers with massive levels of HNGGGGGGGGGG.

Died due to diabetes caused by sweetness overdose? Probably not a bad way to die :heh

[Benigmatica]

Wow, it took Shiroe a long time to make a guild of his own. On the other hand, getting 50 million gold by monopolizing Nyanta's cooking isn't enough to destroy Hamelin and saving the twins.

Still, Akatsuki's dress rape is not safe for children since this show is aired in NHK.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

On the other hand, getting 50 million gold by monopolizing Nyanta's cooking isn't enough to destroy Hamelin and saving the twins.

It's 5 million actually, and the money isn't the ends to itself, but the means to an end. As Shiroe also hinted, saving the twins is a bonus, but not really the main plan.

[Whitemoon648]

I like this so much better than SAO. Personally although i thought SAO was a decent anime, it was way overrated. But Login Horizon seems to be so much more interesting.

[The Green One]

I've always been fond of the heroic version of the chessmaster trope. I look forward to seeing the upcoming festivities in anime form.

[s07195]

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Hmm... I'm wondering when someone starts pulling out economics theory in this anime.

Originally Posted by Johaocarl

It is the same author than Maoyu. Economics and politics will happens...

And it's starting once again with a revolution... using food as a means.

[Anime Online]

In MMO, knowledge is real power. Guides on clearing dungeons, specialize skill points, money-making, crafting rare equipment, etc. The top players hold these knowledge as closely guarded secrets, most notably strategies on clearing raid dungeons, the most difficult but rewarding game content.

Just like the real world, nobody gives away power for free. Eventually, the secret may get out, but not before the top players had their time monopolizing the content for all it is worth.

The storywriter is clearly well-versed in how MMOs run, which lends the anime an authentic feel. There's nothing wrong with Shiroe keeping the food secret from getting out. A MMO player would look at it and see how he can benefit from something nobody has yet realized. It is not unlike how in the real world, people can charge money for sharing their experience and know-how.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by darksassin

"No, you're underestimating death. Death is the permanent end of life. Anything that falls short of that isn't death. And being free of that makes you immortal. It may not make you impervious to pain, but I only said "immortal". Besides, yeah, game death is a temporary inconvenience. A few seconds, maybe minutes of pain, and then you're right as rain. Instead of crippled and suffering from chronic pains. It may not be pleasant, but it falls ridiculously short of what can happen IRL."
In what way did I underestimate death? It seems more likely that you are the one who underestimate death, whether temporary or real.
That way you say it"A few seconds, maybe minutes of pain, and then you're right as rain. Instead of crippled and suffering from chronic pains" make it sound that you are fine with, lets say for example, child abuse. Its perfectly okay for a child to get whipped by a belt by his or her parent as long as it isnt crippling, since the pain will disappear later, according to you logic.

No, but I distinguish it from child murder.

Besides, the psychological consequences of having shitty parents are different from the the fact that being careless can be a bit painful.

Originally Posted by Johaocarl

1- players are thinking inside the box, trying follow the game rules, but that is a world and not a game. Take note that think outside the box and use the "game" class abilities in a creative manner will be very important later, they will make possible "special moves" that the game not had.

So? Knowing something is possible is very different from not trying to figure out how it's done because you're trapped "inside the box".

2- Shiroe had the intention to help Secret Moon guild... sicerelly, if the news spread about the food with taste to other guilds, Crescent Moon players can be target by other guilds, all other guilds will try find the secret. That is a kind of problem (see the guild players being attacked or see the guild members being invited to other guilds) that Marielle cannot deal and Marielle aparentlyy cannot deal with high politis (she had no skills for create a small guilds alliance... while Shiroe have that skills). Take note that sell food with taste can make the Crescent Moon treasure go full.

And that's why keeping it a secret is so dangerous.

Originally Posted by aohige

1. That's why time is of the essence. Misleads help.
2. He plays his cards right
3. This is a case of priority and "end justifies the means". His priority right now, is to end the deteriorating situation in Akiba, save children from slavery , and destroy guilds that have crossed the line. Dickish move you say? Sure. But a few more weeks of suffering tasteless food is a small cost to what this will achieve.

You want a reflexive solution, which there are none, whereas Shiroe is looking at the larger picture, and using his cards more effectively.

Maybe I'm just more optimistic than Shiroe, but I think if food was a stake, all those listless players who let the assholes rule would turn from people with nothing to win into people with nothing to lose. And numbers would begin to tell. Especially as guilds don't have the kind of unifying idealism you can find in religions or nations, which means that there are serious limits on the sacrifices the leaders can ask of the members.

It would be chaos, but in the end order would emerge. An order that would have to keep the population pacified by not being unbearably bad.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Monopolizing the supply of "real-tasting" food should theoretically be able to turn the "Log Horizon" guild (and also the guild that is supporting them) into the richest ones right?

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe I'm just more optimistic than Shiroe, but I think if food was a stake, all those listless players who let the assholes rule would turn from people with nothing to win into people with nothing to lose. And numbers would begin to tell. Especially as guilds don't have the kind of unifying idealism you can find in religions or nations, which means that there are serious limits on the sacrifices the leaders can ask of the members.

It would be chaos, but in the end order would emerge. An order that would have to keep the population pacified by not being unbearably bad.

Quite the opposite. If you let the secret get out in Akiba in its current form, the bigger guilds will simply start to monopolize chefs as they have been monopolizing everything else so far. By that point, the players who let assholes rule the town have even less reason to go against them, because going against the assholes means having to eat tasteless rice-crackers. Food has simply become another chain to enslave the players.

In a situation where the assholes aren't already in control, your idea might work. But it's too late for that now, as Akiba is already firmly in the hands of the assholes. Now, they have to first get rid of the assholes before they can spread the secret and be reasonably sure it won't be used against them.

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by Keroko

But it's too late for that now, as Akiba is already firmly in the hands of the assholes. Now, they have to first get rid of the assholes before they can spread the secret and be reasonably sure it won't be used against them.

Pretty much. Parity has to be returned, or at least make it so that the smaller guilds have a say in things without being smothered or browbeated by the bigger guilds, and verging on spoilers, this is exactly what Shiroe is planning. The food is a tool, and Shiroe's going to make the most of this ace in his hand.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Quite the opposite. If you let the secret get out in Akiba in its current form, the bigger guilds will simply start to monopolize chefs as they have been monopolizing everything else so far. By that point, the players who let assholes rule the town have even less reason to go against them, because going against the assholes means having to eat tasteless rice-crackers. Food has simply become another chain to enslave the players.

In a situation where the assholes aren't already in control, your idea might work. But it's too late for that now, as Akiba is already firmly in the hands of the assholes. Now, they have to first get rid of the assholes before they can spread the secret and be reasonably sure it won't be used against them.

But the control of the assholes is tenuous. It's based on people they've bullied into serving them, not actual loyalty to a cause. That's why I think the worst guilds will break from within.

[~Yami~]

Shiroe's serious look will give him a different aura, eh?
poor Minori... want to hug her so bad ;__;

I wonder why the game system allow high-level player to hold newbie support item... It's quite serious when newbie got farmed like that.
I guess Shiroe will ask Crescent moon to take care the rest of newbie in Hamelin when Log Horizon destroyed them... but why he need 5 million? buying guild hall?
Shiroe is making a right move to warn them for not sharing food's secrets. People with chef sub-class are going to be slaved if the secret leaked out

last demands : I want to see how Nyanta joined Log Horizon... and also... Akatsuki summer dress... I don't mind to die because of it

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But the control of the assholes is tenuous. It's based on people they've bullied into serving them, not actual loyalty to a cause. That's why I think the worst guilds will break from within.

Some of them might. Over time. Perhaps. But revealing the secret of food and letting them hoard it is only going to extend that time.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Some of them might. Over time. Perhaps. But revealing the secret of food and letting them hoard it is only going to extend that time.

I think people might be forgetting that this is also a political move on Shiroe's part and when dealing with politics you can't really play fair all the time else any plans you have even if they're for the good of all will never come to fruition.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe I'm just more optimistic than Shiroe, but I think if food was a stake, all those listless players who let the assholes rule would turn from people with nothing to win into people with nothing to lose. And numbers would begin to tell. Especially as guilds don't have the kind of unifying idealism you can find in religions or nations, which means that there are serious limits on the sacrifices the leaders can ask of the members.

It would be chaos, but in the end order would emerge. An order that would have to keep the population pacified by not being unbearably bad.

I don't quite understand, you actually think people having to suffer tasteless food for just a few more weeks (it's already been a month anyways) is actually more important than saving enslaved children kept in captivity and force to work, and making sure it never happens again?

Shiroe is making a rather small sacrifice for the greater good.
It's not like he plans on monopolizing the secret for an extended long time.
He didn't immediately call up everyone about it, but he DID contact Crescent Moon about it the day Nyanta revealed it to him.
(unfortunately cut in the anime) He simply plays his cards carefully, without rushing into things.

Instead oh you know, acting on impulse and immediately spreading information in an already volatile environment.
That kind of knee-jerk reactions don't end well.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't quite understand, you actually think people having to suffer tasteless food for just a few more weeks (it's already been a month anyways) is actually more important than saving enslaved children kept in captivity and force to work, and making sure it never happens again?

I mean really?

Shiroe is making a rather small sacrifice for the greater good.
It's not like he plans on monopolizing the secret for an extended long time.
He didn't immediately call up everyone about it, but he DID contact Crescent Moon about it the day Nyanta revealed it to him.
(unfortunately cut in the anime) He simply plays his cards carefully, without rushing into things.

Instead oh you know, acting on impulse and immediately spreading information in a already volatile environment.
That kind of knee-jerk reactions don't end well.

No, how did you get that? I think that getting people up and involved in what is now their own lives, strange as they are, would put a stop to the worst abuses (including the mistreatment of children) more surely than some elaborate, fragile plan to manipulate everyone that will work only because he's the protagonist.

They say all that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. But what about the converse? What happens when you pull good (or at least decent-ish) men out of their depressed funk?

[Myssa Rei]

Oh here we go. Anime only watcher argument vs. someone who's read and actually owns the books (remember, most of the novel info we have we get FROM Aohige). NOT going to end well.

Quit while you're ahead Anh Minh.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

No, how did you get that? I think that getting people up and involved in what is now their own lives, strange as they are, would put a stop to the worst abuses (including the mistreatment of children) more surely than some elaborate, fragile plan to manipulate everyone that will work only because he's the protagonist.

They say all that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. But what about the converse? What happens when you pull good (or at least decent-ish) men out of their depressed funk?

Ehh..

So you're counting on the "goodness of human nature" to just kinda fix the type of abusive people who would enslave children.
Yeah good luck with that one. There are some people who are just vile. Hamelin isn't your average doe, it's a collection of scums of life.
They're not gonna go OHMAHGOD FOOD TASTE GREAT! I'm gonna stop my evil ways!

That ain't optimism, that's delusion.
Also leaving children suffering in slavery, especially ones you personally know, until "things just figure itself out" is a terrible idea.
That is basically what's being advocated here. "Let them suffer, who cares. Things will work out somehow I just know it will." Right.

Also, if you think Shiroe is planning to go Dictator Mao on Akiba, yeah not happening.
His "elaborate scheme" is just a mean, not the end.
I think you're overthinking the end, like I said, much of your concerns are on the author's mind as well.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

No, how did you get that? I think that getting people up and involved in what is now their own lives, strange as they are, would put a stop to the worst abuses (including the mistreatment of children) more surely than some elaborate, fragile plan to manipulate everyone that will work only because he's the protagonist.

They say all that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. But what about the converse? What happens when you pull good (or at least decent-ish) men out of their depressed funk?

Again, all that revealing the secret to food would do for Akiba in its current state would be giving the guilds in charge even more power. They'd round up every chef player and use tasty food as another carrot to make players work for them.