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Father Hentai · 2016-07-11, 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Hayate try to kill Keith.... He did shoot at his cockpit.

The first bullets hit Keiths wing and hitting the cockpit was mere luck rather trying a direct headshot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Non-combatants that can get your squad F-ed up. Their danger-level makes them more like enemy's radio-operators and code-breakers rather than mere medics from Winder’s POV.

Chaos is a hired gun. They are hired by someone and has obviously chose Winders as their enemy and are clearly opposing them. That makes Chaos the enemy of Winders (for the time being). It can’t get more obvious than that. Even Bogue understands

.

For Walküre personal protection they have Delta Squad. Deltas main goal is to protect them. Walküre fights the Var syndrome that is why they are in the line of fire of windermere but his does not make them combatants in military terms. Other than Heinz who is actually the "war drummer"

By the way. Chaos was hired by Ragna government to fight the Var syndrome and their contract were once amended. Additionally they are hired to protect Civilians on Ragna not to offensively fight windermere forces. Chaos did not chose any enemy but they are seen as enemy because they are the only one who can fight Bar effectively.

Father Hentai · 2016-07-11, 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

More evidence that the bomb was dropped by the NUNs although....considering who is releasing the footage the trust factor is questionable. Wouldn't be that hard to just steal that plane and drop the bomb. Could easily still have been done by a third party.

If it was stolen Arad and Ernest would not have reacted with that kind of surprise.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2016-07-11, 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

For Walküre personal protection they have Delta Squad. Deltas main goal is to protect them. Walküre fights the Var syndrome that is why they are in the line of fire of windermere but his does not make them combatants in military terms. Other than Heinz who is actually the "war drummer"

By the way. Chaos was hired by Ragna government to fight the Var syndrome and their contract were once amended. Additionally they are hired to protect Civilians on Ragna not to offensively fight windermere forces. Chaos did not chose any enemy but they are seen as enemy because they are the only one who can fight Bar effectively.

Yes, I know they’re non-combatants (I said as much). But their singing can still screw up Winders’ living weapon (Heinz’ singing) and disrupt Winder pilots’ concentration and Walkure knew this and confront the Winders with it. That makes them more dangerous to Winders than mere medics like you argued before. Medics do not directly screw up the enemy’s weapons and plans. Walkure does.

Yes, Chaos protects Ragna from threats. And they confront Winders for that (but somehow let the NUN blow the place up). And Chaos is still under NUNS somehow. So why would Winders not take them as enemy as well? No matter how you look at it, Chaos (along with other factions under NUNS) is a legitimate enemy of the Winders at this point in time. You know what, I think this matter is pretty simple, and a debate like this is not needed at all. I mean, we already see the two factions shooting and tried to kill each other and screw each other's plans since the very first episode, and you're still debating whether or not the two are enemies?

Benigmatica · 2016-07-11, 03:35

So it seems that Lord Roid Brehm wants Windermere to wage an all-out war against the New United Nations now that they released evidence that the NUN Spacy launched a reaction bomb.

Meanwhile, Robert Kino knows about Hayate's father Wright. Now, I'm curious to see if Wright Immelman launched that reaction bomb at Windermere 7 years ago.

magnuskn · 2016-07-11, 04:00

Spoiler for Comparison to Macross Frontier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Cool, but Alto is blamed by his behavior officially.

No, he is not. By whom?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Ranka wasn't 'wrong' because of 'sheer dumb luck' but because she was an enlightened heroine singer with special connection to the Vajra who were supposed to be understood and to be communicated with as endgame. It wasn't a coincidence or good luck, it was an actual theme of the show? ALTO HELPED THE BAD GUYS WITH HIS BEHAVIOR. Sorry about the caps, but emphasis mine. He worked for Leon willingly (unlike Ranka who was mind controlled by Grace). He trusted Leon more than he trusted one of his friends. Sorry, that's frankly stupid of him. All because he couldn't think except on his own anger and sorrow.

This misinterpretation of the show is hilarious, all to support your agenda of excusing the Windbags.

Alto protected Frontier against a race of genocidal bugs who had relentlessly attacked his home for the better part of a year and had succeeded at that point in almost destroying it. At the same time he had sworn to protect the women he loved, who herself had sworn to protect Frontier, to the point that she was willing to sing herself to death.

And then flaky Ranka turned up and asked him to betray his home and abandon the woman he loved, so that she could go on a seeming suicide mission into enemy territory. Yeaaaah, sure he totally should have dropped everything when that happened and just abandoned Sheryl and Frontier, right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

You can understand him, but not necessarily think he did something right. The problem was that Ranka and Alto couldn't communicate with each others (as contrast, for example, take Freyja and Hayate: who could actually communicate each others and both are on the same page about what should be done - at the wake of Messer's death even. This is not comparing Hayate or Freyja with Alto and Ranka as characters, because they are vastly different, but you can see how a relationship strengthens thanks to mutual understanding and falls apart because they fail to communicate). Neither in the show or the movie, Alto listens to her about the Vajra until later.

I can get behind that statement, because it also shows that Alto and Ranka never really connected as much as some people thought during the show. But that is a discussion for another show and thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

SMS immediately left Leon when they realized his true colors, while Alto remained there.

SMS had the benefit of knowing first-hand from Cathy and Ozma that Leon was trying to kill both of them and had deep personal loyalty to both of them at this point. You might want to remember that they expressly did not tell Alto and Luca why they were leaving, because both were emotionally compromised with dependants back on the fleet and thus would have not joined them for good reasons. Klan-Klan was informed, but she was the sleeper agent left behind, anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Invoking Godwin's Law would make you lose an argument.

Godwin's Law can fuck right off. I am a German and a historian, and no dude on the internet will tell me to have no right to talk about the history of my own people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Hayate didn't want to kill. Either way, he's the protagonist (and far more mature than Alto in this aspect), so he wouldn't be blinded by revenge, while Bogue is.

Oh, hahahaaaa. Right, he is "far more mature". I'm sure that if Alto would have tried to "just disable the Vajra", that would have helped in the war, especially since they themselves are their spaceships.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

It's their backstory. It's a multiple media project. You should try to follow all that is released.

I'm sure it is a fascinating story in its own right. However, if the anime can't stand on its own two legs to tell a complete story, it is the problem of the show, not the viewers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

He hasn't even killed anyone yet. Hayate has a bigger death count.

Though if Alto quit acting like a racist murdering asshole with the Vajra, with luck, Bogue will learn too.

Oh, please. Bogue killed as surely as hell many pilots from the NUNS planetary defence forces. You know, what you so charmingly like to refer to as "fodder".

And racism is believing wrong stereotypes about an entire race. If, at the point of believing those stereotypes, they do hold true for the entire race, they stop being stereotypes and become "the truth", as they did for the Vajra back then. Every Vajra capable of it was trying to destroy Frontier. Hence, Alto was not a racist, but a realist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

That makes him a realistic teenager, though. Frankly speaking, I don't see a 15 years old with Bogue's background should be in the army. Period. Freyja's exceptionally mature for her age and experience, but she's not an average person: she's the main heroine and possibly Chosen One to establish coexistence. Bogue's reactions and attitude I find realistic (not pleasant, but what I would expect from a kid who suffered that kind of conflict).

Since the entire race dies by 30 and, if you care to remember, Freyja was thought of as odd for not having married and having kids by the age of 14 (seriously, she is more or less in the position a 30 year old unwed woman would be in a conservative society of the 1950's), people joining the military at that age would be very probably extremely normal on Windermere.

That his emotional maturity is lacking seems to be more of a personal character trait. The twins are doing pretty well and seem to be of an age with Bogue.

LoweGear · 2016-07-11, 04:17

Cassim and Hermann are so far the only named Windermerians apart from Frejya herself whom I sympathize with, mainly because they are quite aware of the deeper things that this war entails. Hell, Cassim himself states that their use of Var is cowardly and unbecoming of knightly conduct, which is pretty much just stating what we already know, but at least now showing that he himself knows that what they're doing ain't exactly a righteous crusade.

Also, Roid is really going to lead Windermere to ruin with his ambitions, and I like how the reaction of the elder Knights as well as the rest of the Windermerians was outright confusion at what the hell was going on. It makes the rest of Windermere sympathetic enough since at least they're not fully on board the kind of madness the more hot-blooded knights and Roid are espousing. They could've just stopped at "freeing" the globular cluster, but no, they just had to cement themselves as being truly nuts by declaring war on the entire galaxy, and the fact that Roid himself turned down peace talks makes it clear that peace for the globular cluster was never the aim in the first place.

While the VF-22 dropping that dimension weapon seems to be a dead ringer for NUNS involvement, there's still a lot of room for there being more than meets the eye since AFAIK the VF-22 should be a very old craft at this time, and not exactly exclusive to NUNS anymore.

And finally, the mystery of Hayate continues, with the NUNS pilot they rescued knowing who Hayate's father is, and his connection to Arado raising all sorts of questions as to who Wright Immelman is.

Benigmatica · 2016-07-11, 04:38

@LoweGear
Regarding Wright Immelman, I think he might be secretly involved in the Windermere conflict 7 years ago. Heck, I might have a gut feeling that he's the one who dropped the reaction bomb.

Father Hentai · 2016-07-11, 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

No, he is not. By whom?
.

By Ozma in their dogfight before Quarter folded.

magnuskn · 2016-07-11, 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

By Ozma in their dogfight before Quarter folded.

Noooo, he was not. Geeze. Do you ever try to watch a scene before you make a comment on it? Ozma was calling Alto out on not knowing for whom he was fighting, but that was in regards to Alto being torn between protecting Sheryl and Ranka. It was not an indictment for not having followed along with Rankas plan.

You might notice that Macross Quarter did not jump to the Vajra homesystem to follow Ranka, but rather went to get information about Grace.

---

Anyway, subs are out, so my impressions from the actual episode:

- Keith is supporting Roids bid to take over the galaxy for vengeance. So much for him being sympathetic.
- So do the twins and Bogue. Because of course they do.
- Herman and Cassim are both reticient, to their great credit. They also both denounce the usage of VAR, again to their great credit.
- I was a bit reminded of the Sportpalast speech of Herman Goering when Roid was declaring total war on the entire galaxy. And to the great credit of the Windermerans populace, they did not go along with it enthusiastically. They did, however, keep to following their new king. Which I can't really blame them for, given their primitive absolutist government. I was incongrously reminded of the Russian nobility and merchant class of the 19th century when seeing their outfits.
- Heinz just swallowed the "execute the will of your father" thing hook, line and sinker. Of course he still is a kid, but you'd think he would be able to think a little bit beyond "Muh father!"

So, Windermere is trying to blitzkrieg the entire galaxy with their mind-slavery now. Realistically, that should end with a fleet as big as necessary showing up with enough fold shielding to drop as many bombs on Windermere as necessary to stop Heinz from singing (preferably directly on his tentacled head to prevent excessive civilian casualties... of course NUNS is more known for their "go big" strategy when dealing with existential threats). When you have openly declared your clear intention to enslave everybody in the galaxy, that's as much a declaration of "come and get me" as you can make. Furthermore, by using this blitzkrieg method of trying to take everybody over before they can respond, Windermere has made this into a race to either stop them or be a slave forever, so I can't even blame NUNS to resort to extreme methods to preserve everyones freedom.

Quite honestly, if the show drags this out over multiple episodes, I must question why certain other entities of the Macross universe won't come knocking on Windermeres doorstep before long. It's not as if there is a lack of powerful military forces who are not the Terrans flying around.

We'll see how the show proceeds from here.

ReddyRedWolf · 2016-07-11, 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

@LoweGear
Regarding Wright Immelman, I think he might be secretly involved in the Windermere conflict 7 years ago. Heck, I might have a gut feeling that he's the one who dropped the reaction bomb.

On his own people? According to the glossary Carlisle is where the NUNS base was. And it is a Mini-Dimension Eater like in Frontier. Something that after the whole Frontier-Galaxy was wide open was put into the same restricted category as Reaction Wweapons.

Which is why Fold Quartz is heavily regulated and adoption of the YF-24 generation is only for those willing to go through the paperwork and expensive spending.

Heck if NUNG knew Hayate has one they'd probably confiscate it as he didn't sign any paperwork to have one.

magnuskn · 2016-07-11, 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Heck if NUNG knew Hayate has one they'd probably confiscate it as he didn't sign any paperwork to have one.

Well, it would really be a matter of very dark humor if Hayate's dad sent him a spare part of a dimensional bomb.

BetoJR · 2016-07-11, 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

It's their backstory. It's a multiple media project. You should try to follow all that is released.

Sorry, not to barge in on you guys' discussion or anything, but no. The anime should live or die by its own merits, not by the multiple threads the "multimedia" project weaves. Not everyone has that kinda drive or will (or time or money) - and they cannot expect that kind of commitment from the viewer/reader/listener/whatever. So, again, the anime/novel/manga/whatever should be judged by itself.

Is the manga nice? Cool! But it should have no bearing in this discussion, IMHO.

Benigmatica · 2016-07-11, 07:02

@ReddyRedWolf
Um, I'm not keen on reading the manga. Like BetoJR said, manga and additional materials have no bearing on this discussion and I'm just a casual viewer where I have my own speculations and opinions upon watching the episode.

Dark Wing · 2016-07-11, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

More evidence that the bomb was dropped by the NUNs although....considering who is releasing the footage the trust factor is questionable. Wouldn't be that hard to just steal that plane and drop the bomb. Could easily still have been done by a third party.

Yes I really have my doubts about the validity of the footage as well. Once again it's too early to tell and we'll just have to wait to find out who is really at fault for all this.

Annorax · 2016-07-11, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, it would really be a matter of very dark humor if Hayate's dad sent him a spare part of a dimensional bomb.

Daddy I want a piece of WMD at Christmas!

No son you are getting a holographic music player instead

BUt dadddd~~~~

No means no son.

But that Hayate next door have it.

If Hayate jump off a cliff tomorrow would you do that too?

You are the worst dad EVER!

ReddyRedWolf · 2016-07-11, 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

@ReddyRedWolf
Um, I'm not keen on reading the manga. Like BetoJR said, manga and additional materials have no bearing on this discussion and I'm just a casual viewer where I have my own speculations and opinions upon watching the episode.

Dude what I said is in the official Delta website not the manga. Dimension Weapons are already mentioned in the infiltration episode to be restricted under galactic treaty. Which supports what was already said in Macross Chronicle about Dimension Weapons.

These bits of information is relevant to the discussion as it provides context to what is happening in the show.

You want to ignore all the official material for yourself but never say it is irrelevant to the discussion. As that is shutting the discussion in itself.

Benigmatica · 2016-07-11, 08:09

@ReddyRedWolf
Okay, I understand. It's just that I'm confused on whether it was a reaction bomb or dimensional bomb.

magnuskn · 2016-07-11, 08:12

Pretty clearly a dimensional bomb. Which apparently by now can be made in a size which doesn't eat the entire planet.

ReddyRedWolf · 2016-07-11, 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benigmatica

@ReddyRedWolf
Okay, I understand. It's just that I'm confused on whether it was a reaction bomb or dimensional bomb.

Thermonuclear Reaction Weapons were clean nukes that leave no radiation behind. Dimension Weapons or Dimension Eaters are black hole bombs.

The first will leave a relatively intact planet. The later can destroy a planet or damage space-time. Which is why NUNS can't just orbital attack Windermere due the resulting Fold Faults that prevent Space Folding.

DragoonKain3 · 2016-07-11, 11:17

As far was what the anime has shown us, Windermere has been accused to 'target both friends and foes alike', which implies that Windermere used the dimensional weapon on both Windermereans and NUNs. Meaning that a bunch of Winds also got hit; just because there was a NUNs base that got caught in the explosion, doesn't rule out that there might have been a Windermere target in the area that the NUNs has to take out at any cost. Goodness knows the NUNs were willing to accept planet wide destruction in Ragna in episode 13, if it meant the Winds doesn't get a hold of the ruin...

Really as far as I see it, it wasn't Keith nor Roid who dropped the bomb, as they were watching the explosion despite having been shot down in a Windermere fighter (~5:50 this eps). I highly doubt Gramia even had a hand in it, since he admonishes the NUNs who "would use weapons that taint their motherland without any hesitation. Earthlings indeed have no claim to the throne of the galaxy." (~8:20 eps 13) Of course Gramia might be a total hypocrite, but that goes on with my next theory...

Now Roid is becoming REAL interesting. In episode 12, he sid that after the war, as long as they have the Sigur Valens and the ruins, that they "can negotiatie with the NUNS on equal terms." He even goes on about "what happens when the war is over? There is so much we need to do, you and I both" to Keith, meaning he was even looking forward to the peace.

And yet this episode he declines the peace treaty? Whoah, major 180 right there. I knew something was up when he keeps going on about 'carrying on the will of his majesty' the past couple of episodes, when just before that he was openly defiant to Gramia (Roid even calls him out on this). Heck, Roid before episode 13 cared about, above anything else, Heinz's well being. And now he is pushing a war that will need Heinz's singing and therefore deteriorate his health even more? That is NOT the Roid that I loved in the first cour.

So yeah, SOMETHING happened with Roid. My best guess? Last bit of episode thirteen when Gramia was dying, he was asking for Heinz. Unfortunately for him though, only Roid was around, so Gramia had no choice but to transfer 'his will' to Roid (both of their Runes started shining - probably an indication of 'will' being passed on). And so Gramia in part lives on in Roid, if this theory holds true.

Another guess... Roid (or at least the 'will' that has possessed Roid) knows Mikumo, and they harken back to the protoculture days. Maybe the 'will' is some sentient protoculture being that's been passed down from generation through generation, that in the past has dreamt of conquering the galaxy but failed. Mikumo on the other hand was the one responsible in foiling his plans, and Mikumo either is literally the same girl who just awoken from cold sleep, or just merely the reincarnation of that person.

In any case, there really is a lot of depth to the mystery of not only exactly what happened 7 years ago, but also what happened during the protoculture days (Mikumo at least has some big ties to protoculture). At first I thought 'heir of protoculuture' was just some propaganda bullshit, but now they're hinting at the possibility that possibly a 'survivor' of protculture is amidst the Wind ranks. I mean, Zentradi was a race created meant for everlasting war, why not Windermere as a race created for everlasting life?

Well either that, or the 'will' latched on to Gramia 7 years ago, possibly due to uncovering the ruin. I mean Gramia went from all chivalry/1-on-1 kind of guy like Master Herman, to kill-them-all mode at the end of last cour. Perhaps another 'victim' of being possesed by the 'will'. XD

View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10	2	8.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	7	29.17%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	3	12.50%
7 out of 10 : Good	5	20.83%
6 out of 10 : Average	5	20.83%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	4.17%
1 out of 10 : Painful	1	4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

2016-07-11, 04:17	Link #66
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	Cassim and Hermann are so far the only named Windermerians apart from Frejya herself whom I sympathize with, mainly because they are quite aware of the deeper things that this war entails. Hell, Cassim himself states that their use of Var is cowardly and unbecoming of knightly conduct, which is pretty much just stating what we already know, but at least now showing that he himself knows that what they're doing ain't exactly a righteous crusade. Also, Roid is really going to lead Windermere to ruin with his ambitions, and I like how the reaction of the elder Knights as well as the rest of the Windermerians was outright confusion at what the hell was going on. It makes the rest of Windermere sympathetic enough since at least they're not fully on board the kind of madness the more hot-blooded knights and Roid are espousing. They could've just stopped at "freeing" the globular cluster, but no, they just had to cement themselves as being truly nuts by declaring war on the entire galaxy, and the fact that Roid himself turned down peace talks makes it clear that peace for the globular cluster was never the aim in the first place. While the VF-22 dropping that dimension weapon seems to be a dead ringer for NUNS involvement, there's still a lot of room for there being more than meets the eye since AFAIK the VF-22 should be a very old craft at this time, and not exactly exclusive to NUNS anymore. And finally, the mystery of Hayate continues, with the NUNS pilot they rescued knowing who Hayate's father is, and his connection to Arado raising all sorts of questions as to who Wright Immelman is. __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.

2016-07-11, 08:12	Link #78
magnuskn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 48	Pretty clearly a dimensional bomb. Which apparently by now can be made in a size which doesn't eat the entire planet. __________________

2016-07-11, 11:17	Link #80
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	As far was what the anime has shown us, Windermere has been accused to 'target both friends and foes alike', which implies that Windermere used the dimensional weapon on both Windermereans and NUNs. Meaning that a bunch of Winds also got hit; just because there was a NUNs base that got caught in the explosion, doesn't rule out that there might have been a Windermere target in the area that the NUNs has to take out at any cost. Goodness knows the NUNs were willing to accept planet wide destruction in Ragna in episode 13, if it meant the Winds doesn't get a hold of the ruin... Really as far as I see it, it wasn't Keith nor Roid who dropped the bomb, as they were watching the explosion despite having been shot down in a Windermere fighter (~5:50 this eps). I highly doubt Gramia even had a hand in it, since he admonishes the NUNs who "would use weapons that taint their motherland without any hesitation. Earthlings indeed have no claim to the throne of the galaxy." (~8:20 eps 13) Of course Gramia might be a total hypocrite, but that goes on with my next theory... Now Roid is becoming REAL interesting. In episode 12, he sid that after the war, as long as they have the Sigur Valens and the ruins, that they "can negotiatie with the NUNS on equal terms." He even goes on about "what happens when the war is over? There is so much we need to do, you and I both" to Keith, meaning he was even looking forward to the peace. And yet this episode he declines the peace treaty? Whoah, major 180 right there. I knew something was up when he keeps going on about 'carrying on the will of his majesty' the past couple of episodes, when just before that he was openly defiant to Gramia (Roid even calls him out on this). Heck, Roid before episode 13 cared about, above anything else, Heinz's well being. And now he is pushing a war that will need Heinz's singing and therefore deteriorate his health even more? That is NOT the Roid that I loved in the first cour. So yeah, SOMETHING happened with Roid. My best guess? Last bit of episode thirteen when Gramia was dying, he was asking for Heinz. Unfortunately for him though, only Roid was around, so Gramia had no choice but to transfer 'his will' to Roid (both of their Runes started shining - probably an indication of 'will' being passed on). And so Gramia in part lives on in Roid, if this theory holds true. Another guess... Roid (or at least the 'will' that has possessed Roid) knows Mikumo, and they harken back to the protoculture days. Maybe the 'will' is some sentient protoculture being that's been passed down from generation through generation, that in the past has dreamt of conquering the galaxy but failed. Mikumo on the other hand was the one responsible in foiling his plans, and Mikumo either is literally the same girl who just awoken from cold sleep, or just merely the reincarnation of that person. In any case, there really is a lot of depth to the mystery of not only exactly what happened 7 years ago, but also what happened during the protoculture days (Mikumo at least has some big ties to protoculture). At first I thought 'heir of protoculuture' was just some propaganda bullshit, but now they're hinting at the possibility that possibly a 'survivor' of protculture is amidst the Wind ranks. I mean, Zentradi was a race created meant for everlasting war, why not Windermere as a race created for everlasting life? Well either that, or the 'will' latched on to Gramia 7 years ago, possibly due to uncovering the ruin. I mean Gramia went from all chivalry/1-on-1 kind of guy like Master Herman, to kill-them-all mode at the end of last cour. Perhaps another 'victim' of being possesed by the 'will'. XD __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)

2016-07-11, 03:35	Link #64
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	So it seems that Lord Roid Brehm wants Windermere to wage an all-out war against the New United Nations now that they released evidence that the NUN Spacy launched a reaction bomb. Meanwhile, Robert Kino knows about Hayate's father Wright. Now, I'm curious to see if Wright Immelman launched that reaction bomb at Windermere 7 years ago.

2016-07-11, 04:38	Link #67
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	@LoweGear Regarding Wright Immelman, I think he might be secretly involved in the Windermere conflict 7 years ago. Heck, I might have a gut feeling that he's the one who dropped the reaction bomb.

2016-07-11, 07:02	Link #73
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	@ReddyRedWolf Um, I'm not keen on reading the manga. Like BetoJR said, manga and additional materials have no bearing on this discussion and I'm just a casual viewer where I have my own speculations and opinions upon watching the episode.

2016-07-11, 08:09	Link #77
Benigmatica Deadpan Rambler Join Date: Nov 2012	@ReddyRedWolf Okay, I understand. It's just that I'm confused on whether it was a reaction bomb or dimensional bomb.