To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - New Testament Volume 14 Discussion / Poll

[Tiken]

I think this volume will probably end up being a setup for the final act of Toaru. There are just too many references to the book of revelations being thrown around. I mean, if Awiass is loosely seen as the false prophet, and Crowley signifies the number of the beast, then either Touma himself, or Kamisato represents the second death - which punishes those who have rejected Christ.

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by Tiken

I think this volume will probably end up being a setup for the final act of Toaru. There are just too many references to the book of revelations being thrown around. I mean, if Awiass is loosely seen as the false prophet, and Crowley signifies the number of the beast, then either Touma himself, or Kamisato represents the second death - which punishes those who have rejected Christ.

never thought about the prospect of majutsu ending. i would have liked to have seen more closure for characters like itsuwa, acqua and the like before closing the curtain. if anything i think touma would represent the second death, if you subsitute death for memory loss (vice-versa the books do that a lot) he's on his second run.

but i doubt the series would end just like that, we'd probably get another reset for touma if things drag on too long. personally i always envisioned the entire series would end in a similar fashion to OT1 creating a full circle back to the route of the series by the time a year has passed in the to aru universe(only like 4 months has passed in the series to end properly). not much to say about NT14 as i'm trying to avoid spoilers(still half way through NT4). i'm just waiting for illustrations to be released so i can colour them again.

edit: i'm referring to the year passing in the universe as a parallel for the OT1 circumstances to be more apparent; in the sense that touma would likewise loose a years worth of memories and end up restarting.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Tiken

I think this volume will probably end up being a setup for the final act of Toaru. There are just too many references to the book of revelations being thrown around. I mean, if Awiass is loosely seen as the false prophet, and Crowley signifies the number of the beast, then either Touma himself, or Kamisato represents the second death - which punishes those who have rejected Christ.

That is a possibility. We are at 14 volumes.

[Tiken]

Originally Posted by SibylEnd

never thought about the prospect of majutsu ending. i would have liked to have seen more closure for characters like itsuwa, acqua and the like before closing the curtain. if anything i think touma would represent the second death, if you subsitute death for memory loss (vice-versa the books do that a lot) he's on his second run.

but i doubt the series would end just like that, we'd probably get another reset for touma if things drag on too long. personally i always envisioned the entire series would end in a similar fashion to OT1 creating a full circle back to the route of the series by the time a year has passed in the to aru universe(only like 4 months has passed in the series to end properly). not much to say about NT14 as i'm trying to avoid spoilers(still half way through NT4). i'm just waiting for illustrations to be released so i can colour them again.

edit: i'm referring to the year passing in the universe as a parallel for the OT1 circumstances to be more apparent; in the sense that touma would likewise loose a years worth of memories and end up restarting.

Well, I didn't say that there wouldn't be a to aru revelations. Its just the second death is a biblical reference to the anti-christ - its not referring to his memory loss, that I can assure you. But it doesn't specifically point to who it will be. The Antichrist is said to be one who isn't even aware of the fact that they are the Antichrist, and that when he does appear, he will be very persuasive and a natural born leader, and liked by pretty much everyone - aka, somebody like Hitler. Also, Touma doesn't seem to understand what exactly his hand is, and for some weird reason, he hasn't brought up what he almost did when the comet was heading right towards him and mikoto. Its as if he wasn't even aware of what almost happened. Then, there is this final clue. His hand is incomplete. What does this mean?

Everyone seems to disagree with my thoughts here, but I can't help but piece things together where Touma ends up being the final villian of the series. It all just seems to fit together somehow.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by bakato

That is a possibility. We are at 14 volumes.

I don't know about the series ending but I think NT ending is coming up now that WR is here but I want to know what Chaos will happen on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and also what would happen on New Year Eve and New Year Day I think on these two days would be the final arc of NT.

I myself think after NT Books we will go to To Aru Majutsu No Index Revelation as a thrid and Final Book Series for Index.

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by Tiken

Well, I didn't say that there wouldn't be a to aru revelations. Its just the second death is a biblical reference to the anti-christ - its not referring to his memory loss, that I can assure you. But it doesn't specifically point to who it will be. The Antichrist is said to be one who isn't even aware of the fact that they are the Antichrist, and that when he does appear, he will be very persuasive and a natural born leader, and liked by pretty much everyone - aka, somebody like Hitler. Also, Touma doesn't seem to understand what exactly his hand is, and for some weird reason, he hasn't brought up what he almost did when the comet was heading right towards him and mikoto. Its as if he wasn't even aware of what almost happened. Then, there is this final clue. His hand is incomplete. What does this mean?

Everyone seems to disagree with my thoughts here, but I can't help but piece things together where Touma ends up being the final villian of the series. It all just seems to fit together somehow.

yeah i don't know anything about that or christian lore, just that OT1 and OT22 has stated that kamjiou touma had died; as to what that entails is subjective(haven't read the spoiler you're refering to). likewise wasn't fiammas hand incomplete, and he seemed to think that assimilating imagine breaker would complete his hand? shall we pressume that to be the same case with kamisato then?

the book of revelations theory is interesting, although i don't think it's appropriate considering the track history the series has with christianity. OT11 had an infamously incorrect comment about who carried Jesus's cross, implying that kamachi doesn't know too much about christianity and wouldn't otherwise create a whole underlying biblical parallel. but i interpret it as kamachi intentionally bending christian lore in the series to avoid delving into religious subject matter while still being able to use magic(ala. "i don't want to aru majustu to become neon genesis evangelion"). although ever since NT kamachi seems to have dropped the religious thing by substituting it for more digestable lore (fairytales, graven images or gods. ect).

personally; OT index always seemed more Buddist centric with the talk of lifeforces, mental energy and what is essentially chakras in OT9, this makes me think buddism is a universal foundation for all magicians to an extent in both how magic works and the concept of magic names; this by extension makes buddism seem like a heavy undertone with characters as well; like how touma simply desires a peaceful life(we could be here forever drawing parallels mate, i can even interprite: "kamijous has died" as reincarnation or the sisters network refering to metempsychosis concepts in rebirth). never mind fact that buddist magicians seem non-existant and yet their concepts are universally implimented by all magicians. christianity really hasn't been used that much in this series with only some references to powerful christians/saints and little for the religion itself. p.s. i feel like we've already had a villian touma both in NT10 and OT2 with aurelous being written as a darker parallel. that and japan is predominantly a buddist country so it may just be a cultural difference of kamachi's environment rather than him actually implementing his ideas on buddism(and we can be here even longer talking about religious influences affecting ones growing up environment).

long story short; i think the buddism motiff is too prominent in the narrative for other religions to be present; and it makes kamachi sound like a hack when he's just putting multiple contrasting religious aesthetics into his works haphazardly. although you're making interesting observations.
but i'm not the one to talk to this about, i'm only at NT4.

[Hiromin]

This preview was really enjoyable
Touma told Index to cook for herself and didn't apologize for it when she got angry, and he even dodged her bite, finally!
I honestly expected Touma to be more quick at understanding what the two gods are talking about, seeing as he is similar to Kakeru
I loved the interaction between Noukan and Yuuitsu The more I read about him, the more I like the Kihara dog

I don't know why but I feel like this volume will be kinda dark (like NT9), and something big will happen.

[zaikoi]

Originally Posted by Tiken

I think this volume will probably end up being a setup for the final act of Toaru. There are just too many references to the book of revelations being thrown around. I mean, if Awiass is loosely seen as the false prophet, and Crowley signifies the number of the beast, then either Touma himself, or Kamisato represents the second death - which punishes those who have rejected Christ.

Kamachi still planning to do his 20th anniversary project crossover anyway.
Index LN will last till like 10 more years or more.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by zaikoi

Kamachi still planning to do his 20th anniversary project crossover anyway.
Index LN will last till like 10 more years or more.

Whether or not Kamachi will eventually reach that milestone, you've got to learn not to take everything he says at face value. He was joking when he said that.

And even if Kamachi is still writing by the time of that milestone, that doesn't necessarily mean Index will still be continuing. We are at a point in the story at which the future is very uncertain. Kamisato and WR's inclusion into the story might be the start of something huge or the final puzzle piece that will lead to the endgame for the series. I'm assuming the novel will shed some light on the issue.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Whether or not Kamachi will eventually reach that milestone, you've got to learn not to take everything he says at face value. He was joking when he said that.

And even if Kamachi is still writing by the time of that milestone, that doesn't necessarily mean Index will still be continuing. We are at a point in the story at which the future is very uncertain. Kamisato and WR's inclusion into the story might be the start of something huge or the final puzzle piece that will lead to the endgame for the series. I'm assuming the novel will shed some light on the issue.

Meh I don't expect it to wrap up that soon. There's too much unexplored stuff, but you are right about the fact that we could be nearing the end-game or absolutely not and that this volume will very likely spell out which of these two scenarios is actually happening.

The real reason why it feels unlikely that we are approaching the end game is that Noukan and Aleister have no clue about what is actually happening with the magic gods. That feels really freaky. It's so strange that they don't know something.

Keeping that in mind, I don't expect things to resolve so easily. Noukan feels some negative vibes and Touma vs. Kakeru is supposed to be a fight between jokers and thus a type of battle that we absolutely haven't seen before.

There are just too many things still going on. We are nearing the part where Riko will probably be turned into a pseudo level 5. We are nearing the part where Kamachi will explain how espers with different personalities and genes can somehow develop very similar powers to each other. We are nearing a war between Magic and Science (and this one doesn't look pretty because Laura may try to manipulate Kakeru from the looks of things pre NT 14). We just found out that Laura knows a lot more than she was previously letting on. We still haven't resolved many, many things like Aleister's plan, the Kiharas, Misaka's resolve, ............. and most importantly we haven't resolved the plot line with Index (among other things).

Laura is clearly soon going to control Index using her already OP knowledge. Speculatively she will probably try to make her into the only remaining magic god (or maybe not because it seems like things would go very wrong if she somehow lost control of her...?), and she seems to be planning ahead to control kakeru like a pawn.

Back in the Carissa arc Laura's behavior was already suspicious. We have never seen her actual power. She made sure to arrive at Carissa's defeat party a little after closing time... She somehow has the shrewdness to manipulate the fiercest division (maybe) in the magic side. She has foreseen something Aleister and Noukan didn't. (I'm still stuck on this point lol because I can hardly believe it...) She seems too young looking for her age and blah blah blah. The fact that we have never gotten a direct evaluation of her power... and the fact that she has always believed that she can annex Academy City even though she already knows that Aleister Crowley is there... these facts all hint at the possibility that if she isn't just crazy and saying nonsense... that she actually may have a very large power base in store and maybe she has the capability to seize Academy City. That would honestly be a terrifying concept. And this possibility is actually starting to seem more likely by the second.

Watch Laura be the Magic God of Christianity hiding in-cognito or something... (Watch that actually be true... I swear I wouldn't even be surprised in the least.)

What if Laura planted Index in AC in volume on purpose and had Styl and Kaori go to AC to recover (where she had already predicted that they'd both fail to recover her)? I mean, let's be real. How she arrived in AC in the first place is still a completely mystery to all of us.

I have a bad feeling. That's all...

I don't think it'll end soon, though I do think that some major pieces will finally reveal themselves.

[ACertainStark]

To be fair, setting up the end game doesn't mean it's ending soon. You can set that up or lay the groundwork and do it 15 books later or in a games case, 20-30 hours later.

Putting aside Kamisato and what will happen going forward, there's so many open plot threads in addition to the new ones and Kamachi has never been quick in resolving them. That's not a complaint though, as long as he's able to complete it at the pace he wants, I'm happy. And personally, I'm in no rush to see it end.

[Chosen_Hero]

I'm here just expecting their fight to be even more destructive than any other fight in the series.

P.S. Was I the only one that laugh at the line in the preview that said "As all kinds of normal threats opposed you.."?

[Tiken]

Originally Posted by ACertainStark

To be fair, setting up the end game doesn't mean it's ending soon. You can set that up or lay the groundwork and do it 15 books later or in a games case, 20-30 hours later.

Putting aside Kamisato and what will happen going forward, there's so many open plot threads in addition to the new ones and Kamachi has never been quick in resolving them. That's not a complaint though, as long as he's able to complete it at the pace he wants, I'm happy. And personally, I'm in no rush to see it end.

This is pretty much the gist of what I meant. Its very likely that there will be 15 more volumes, or even 20 - 30 left. But no more than that if this turns out the way that I'm expecting it to go.

Unless this whole thing takes a weird detour into Scientology, then this is the way I see it going.

On another note, a battle between them as jokers could also mean that he won't be able to outsmart Kakeru or use his wits like he usually does. Seeing as they are so similar, using tricks and well thought out plans might not be enough, as each of them can predict each other's moves. In fact, he might even need to compromise a few of his ideals just to survive this one.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by SibylEnd

yeah i don't know anything about that or christian lore, just that OT1 and OT22 has stated that kamjiou touma had died; as to what that entails is subjective(haven't read the spoiler you're refering to). likewise wasn't fiammas hand incomplete, and he seemed to think that assimilating imagine breaker would complete his hand? shall we pressume that to be the same case with kamisato then?

the book of revelations theory is interesting, although i don't think it's appropriate considering the track history the series has with christianity. OT11 had an infamously incorrect comment about who carried Jesus's cross, implying that kamachi doesn't know too much about christianity and wouldn't otherwise create a whole underlying biblical parallel. but i interpret it as kamachi intentionally bending christian lore in the series to avoid delving into religious subject matter while still being able to use magic(ala. "i don't want to aru majustu to become neon genesis evangelion"). although ever since NT kamachi seems to have dropped the religious thing by substituting it for more digestable lore (fairytales, graven images or gods. ect).

personally; OT index always seemed more Buddist centric with the talk of lifeforces, mental energy and what is essentially chakras in OT9, this makes me think buddism is a universal foundation for all magicians to an extent in both how magic works and the concept of magic names; this by extension makes buddism seem like a heavy undertone with characters as well; like how touma simply desires a peaceful life(we could be here forever drawing parallels mate, i can even interprite: "kamijous has died" as reincarnation or the sisters network refering to metempsychosis concepts in rebirth). never mind fact that buddist magicians seem non-existant and yet their concepts are universally implimented by all magicians. christianity really hasn't been used that much in this series with only some references to powerful christians/saints and little for the religion itself. p.s. i feel like we've already had a villian touma both in NT10 and OT2 with aurelous being written as a darker parallel. that and japan is predominantly a buddist country so it may just be a cultural difference of kamachi's environment rather than him actually implementing his ideas on buddism(and we can be here even longer talking about religious influences affecting ones growing up environment).

long story short; i think the buddism motiff is too prominent in the narrative for other religions to be present; and it makes kamachi sound like a hack when he's just putting multiple contrasting religious aesthetics into his works haphazardly. although you're making interesting observations.
but i'm not the one to talk to this about, i'm only at NT4.

Of course Buddist will be a huge underlining which the Series because Kamachi made Crowley the main enemy or the Series and in real life Crowley was Buddist before his visions of Aweiss but i think Christian will most likey be just as important because Crowley in real life and the book series call himself Beast 666 and the other main enemy Laura is Christian but at how Laura look down at Crowley as human she may turnout to be the True Luficer of Index, I know there was a CD Drama about people trying to summon Luficer but failed too, but because they did not get the chance too, we can still made theory on Laura equel Luficer but it more likey that Laura magic may be base on The Book of Revelation which would be as Cheat as the Right Hands user in this series.

But the most important believe in this series is the Stuff about the Book of Law and it believe.

I myself want to know what level Laura power is because she knew all about the Magic God in the other Phase and never show up in all the Change World of Othuins, so we don't know if she was afferted by The World changes or not, just knowing that she knew about the Magic God in the other Phase which only Crowley being the other to know, then she one up Crowley by knowing about World Rejecter which even the Magic Gods did not see coming until after he get them and she does not seen scare.

I don't think the series will end until a arc is done about angel because we know that Aweiss is most likey more powerful then the Magic God and he had Angel triat to him Holo and Wings when Accel Aware he get Wing and the white Wing awaring he get a holo but the Holo have not show up after using the White Wings a Second time does this mean Accel can not Use the same power he had in WWIII or is there more to it?

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

I'm here just expecting their fight to be even more destructive than any other fight in the series.

P.S. Was I the only one that laugh at the line in the preview that said "As all kinds of normal threats opposed you.."?

The funny thing is that I actually agree with you.

This will be anything but two people punching each other. I expect a terrible grudge match.

Not to mention, they both aren't 'normal'.

[zaikoi]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Whether or not Kamachi will eventually reach that milestone, you've got to learn not to take everything he says at face value. He was joking when he said that.

And even if Kamachi is still writing by the time of that milestone, that doesn't necessarily mean Index will still be continuing. We are at a point in the story at which the future is very uncertain. Kamisato and WR's inclusion into the story might be the start of something huge or the final puzzle piece that will lead to the endgame for the series. I'm assuming the novel will shed some light on the issue.

I don't think that's a joke. What if that joke is real? It's like no one expect a dragon to be surface again like the discussion in the past.

[OH&S]

Images are finally coming out. There's this one kick-ass double spread of the two right hand users.

[entei08]

Originally Posted by OH&S

Images are finally coming out. There's this one kick-ass double spread of the two right hand users.

Spoiler for spoiler releated to the images:

Also two monsters, one red, one black has invaded the city.

In one of the images where Yuuitsu looks down on a stretcher, coupled with what she said: That's what romance is, isn't that right sensei? it looked like Noukan died. Unless the stretcher was empty or Noukan wasn't the one on it.

Yuiitsu looked a lot more younger than I thought.

[OH&S]

^

Spoiler for illustration talk:

Well crap, I didn't pay attention to the text next to the image. Dniv's not gonna be happy about that.

EDIT:I'm gonna withhold judgement on Noukan dying. It doesn't seem right for him to exit so early.

[Apoptosis]

Is Noukan down with no count?!

...........*tumbleweed*