[Manga] Naruto Chapter 692 Discussion Thread

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by JustRob

No one will complain? No one will complain if he tells everyone "Hey, I killed the five Kage, your beloved and well-respected leaders. Now we can all have peace."?

Well if the world is just the world of ninja, but in reality the ninja are only a few of the people. Back when the manga started we see the story of Haku, and that didn't tell us that people liked ninjas. Ninja are probably associated with war and destruction, so the general population might be happy if Sasuke ends this whole ninja system and creates a better one. Surely the population of the rain country thinks so, since they were regularly fucked up by the surrounding 3 big ninja villages.

Well i complained back when Naruto was called a revolutionary, because he never faced hard decision. The one who killed the leader of Konoha's corruption was Sasuke and not Naruto. Naruto never faced Danzo, he never made any revolution or change. He makes speeches to the "bad guys" regularly but he never made a speech to the kages about how shitty the system they lead is. Of course someone who is generally stupid cannot really think about social issues, things just get solved on their own from Naruto's perspective, that's what we complain about. Even in this chapter Naruto never thinks if these tailed beasts will be eventually caught by the villages and sealed again. Sasuke thinks about this and simply chooses to remove this problem once and for all. Of course since this is not the real world Naruto's idealism will win over Sasuke's pragmatism

[Alchemist007]

Good idea, bad execution.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I get the feeling that at this point Sasuke is just doing it intentionally to test Naruto and whether he will have the strength to keep the peace in the future. Having something at stake will just make Naruto fight harder. If Naruto loses even then, then Sasuke will do what he needs to to keep the peace even if it means being the bad guy again. If Naruto wins Sasuke will be able to leave it to him and support Naruto and his dream.

i like this....sorta
kinda like, if narutos way is to the correct one, it should prevail over sasukes way. though we kinda already had this scenario with obito.

but i am thinking about kuramas words back at the start of shippuden when sasuke and naruto faced each other....that sasuke will regret it if he kills naruto.
maybe sasuke does win this fight. but when he lands the final blow....magic happens

[Shinagami]

If this fight really happens I hope I see Naruto kick Sasuke in the face....

[sayde]

I've expressed this a very long time ago, but I can't help but to say it again. My ideal outcome of this scenario would involve Naruto winning the battle by using the original (kinjustsu) version of rasenshuriken to not kill him, but to completely end Sasuke's life as a shinobi by destroying his chakra circulatory system.

I think I want to see that more than I want to see NaruHina become an official thing. (And I'm a big NaruHina fan. It's literally half the reason I've been determined to follow this series through to the end.)

Anyways, I'm glad to see Kishi is keeping true to his word about making Naruto and Sasuke the final battle of the manga. I hope its brief but sweet. I don't need this battle lasting as long as the final chain of battles leading up to this. We know Naruto's gonna win this time. So lets not prolong the inevitable.

[The Green One]

So now Naruto vs Sasuke, this really will be the finale, there just isn't anything else after this but an epilogue. Well lets see how Naruto can end this cycle.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by The Green One

So now Naruto vs Sasuke, this really will be the finale, there just isn't anything else after this but an epilogue. Well lets see how Naruto can end this cycle.

Orochimaru will troll everyone afterwards

[Alena_92]

for sure this will be the final battle. . im excited.. Though i thought Sasuke realized his wrong doings and will do something to redeem himself but its the opposite.

in my opinion this is the problem with the genius people..they think more of the future and see the problem in the future even though its not happening yet and then they do something to prevent it from happening, even if they had to do it the wrong way. just like Itachi and Danzo. "the end doesn't justify the means" I bet he's thinking the same thing.

Unlike Naruto, he deals with the present. He thinks simple (that's why he is always called an idiot) and he deal with the problem as they come along the way. and he's good at that. . He can be very intelligent when the situation calls for him to be.. which is the strongest character trait of Naruto. He's optimism never runs out.

im thinking that Sasuke will die in this battle. He will realize his mistake in his last breath and im hoping that he will use the rinne tinse and it will end his life just like Nagato. i know it doesn't sound appealing because its a repeat. But his the only person who could do it because of the Rinnegan.

Well, what ever it is.. im freaking looking forward to the final battle.. Wohoooo!Let's get is on!

[dark44]

if naruto really want peace Sasuke need to die to end the uchiha this clan cant never be good they are too emotional and uchiha madara is an example

[JustRob]

I swear to God, if there's casualties during this battle and Sasuke uses Rinne Tensei to revive them...

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well i complained back when Naruto was called a revolutionary, because he never faced hard decision. The one who killed the leader of Konoha's corruption was Sasuke and not Naruto. Naruto never faced Danzo, he never made any revolution or change. He makes speeches to the "bad guys" regularly but he never made a speech to the kages about how shitty the system they lead is. Of course someone who is generally stupid cannot really think about social issues, things just get solved on their own from Naruto's perspective, that's what we complain about. Even in this chapter Naruto never thinks if these tailed beasts will be eventually caught by the villages and sealed again. Sasuke thinks about this and simply chooses to remove this problem once and for all. Of course since this is not the real world Naruto's idealism will win over Sasuke's pragmatism

Not really we could debate Danzos character the whole day but Danzo wasn't really a bad person his means for achieving his goals were not the best ways to go about doing things. Naruto faced a much more bigger threat than Sasuke he faced the "leader" of akatsuki and defeated him not only that but he changed his entire outlook on life. What Sasukes doing is childish he's repeating what generations before him had done it doesn't change the cycle of hatered in the ninja world. Narutos idealism trumps Sasukes pragmatism any day even in the real world Narutos outlook is far better than Sasukes. Sasukes revolution will only bring more violence than solutions. Maybe Sasuke knows his ways were wrong and there's no redemption for him so his only way out is to die at the hands of Naruto.

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well if the world is just the world of ninja, but in reality the ninja are only a few of the people. Back when the manga started we see the story of Haku, and that didn't tell us that people liked ninjas. Ninja are probably associated with war and destruction, so the general population might be happy if Sasuke ends this whole ninja system and creates a better one. Surely the population of the rain country thinks so, since they were regularly fucked up by the surrounding 3 big ninja villages.

Well i complained back when Naruto was called a revolutionary, because he never faced hard decision. The one who killed the leader of Konoha's corruption was Sasuke and not Naruto. Naruto never faced Danzo, he never made any revolution or change. He makes speeches to the "bad guys" regularly but he never made a speech to the kages about how shitty the system they lead is. Of course someone who is generally stupid cannot really think about social issues, things just get solved on their own from Naruto's perspective, that's what we complain about. Even in this chapter Naruto never thinks if these tailed beasts will be eventually caught by the villages and sealed again. Sasuke thinks about this and simply chooses to remove this problem once and for all. Of course since this is not the real world Naruto's idealism will win over Sasuke's pragmatism

Sasuke isn't pragmatic. He is delusional. He has seen people fail at what he is attempting to do, but still plows on with a poorly devised plan, destined to implode.

Killing the 5 kages will change nothing. They are beloved in their villages and it will forever brand Sasuke as a monster. All it does is continue the cycle of hate. It does not change the ninja system since there is no better alternative offered. Even if Sasuke planned to turn the civilian population and smaller villages against the big 5, it would just make him a Pain reject. It won't work.

If Sasuke had more intelligence and charisma, he could have made an excellent alternative to Narutism. He could have presented an argument for his way of life. He had some of the ninja alliance even cheering for him against the biju. He could have been a great leader. But in the end, he could not hack it, and reverted back to failed ideals.

The greatest tragedy of this fight is that Sasuke is still needed to cancel IT. Which makes the ending quite predictable. If it is shown that IT can be broken without Sasuke, then this fight might enter uncharted territory.

[Artful_Dodger]

I was laughing my ass off when Sasuke declared his true intentions and controlled the bijuu, because I thought he was going to absorb all the tailed beasts and reset the fight yet again, lol! That would've been so bad, and thus fit right along with the rest of this terrible arc; which is why I beleived it would happen, but good thing it didn't :P

[Sinta]

For crying out loud Sasuke - dumb -just dumb.

[QS_Bilal]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well if the world is just the world of ninja, but in reality the ninja are only a few of the people. Back when the manga started we see the story of Haku, and that didn't tell us that people liked ninjas. Ninja are probably associated with war and destruction, so the general population might be happy if Sasuke ends this whole ninja system and creates a better one. Surely the population of the rain country thinks so, since they were regularly fucked up by the surrounding 3 big ninja villages.

Well i complained back when Naruto was called a revolutionary, because he never faced hard decision. The one who killed the leader of Konoha's corruption was Sasuke and not Naruto. Naruto never faced Danzo, he never made any revolution or change. He makes speeches to the "bad guys" regularly but he never made a speech to the kages about how shitty the system they lead is. Of course someone who is generally stupid cannot really think about social issues, things just get solved on their own from Naruto's perspective, that's what we complain about. Even in this chapter Naruto never thinks if these tailed beasts will be eventually caught by the villages and sealed again. Sasuke thinks about this and simply chooses to remove this problem once and for all. Of course since this is not the real world Naruto's idealism will win over Sasuke's pragmatism

.. only problem is MADARA. He practically attempted the same thing but instead BZ fraked it up. Though I have to agree with you, Sasuke's plan for reform and sealing the tailed beasts is a step in the right direction.
After all, it was Madara (and Hashirama) who formed the first organized ninja system, now its up to Sasuke to reform it into a better second system.
The sheer optimism on Sasuke's part that things will work out down the generations is miss-placed though (how can he be so certain of his philosophy.. what proof does he have.. its like doing the same thing again and expecting different results..). Naruto resolve on the other hand converges on utter stupidity. The failed Ninja system created the psychos @ Akatsuki and produced 4 world wars is a monstrosity that has ruined him and everyone he knows. I cannot be worth fighting for or defending. This leads to the conclusion that there was nothing wrong with Madara's plan. It resoundingly permanent and solved all the problems plaguing the world.. a sort of heaven (which neither of Sasukes' or Narutos' dreams are). Going about actually doing it could of used a bit more planning imho ... the whole war was useless (just Obitio's psycho fetish)

[Sinta]

Originally Posted by QS_Bilal

.. only problem is MADARA. He practically attempted the same thing but instead BZ fraked it up. Though I have to agree with you, Sasuke's plan for reform and sealing the tailed beasts is a step in the right direction.
After all, it was Madara (and Hashirama) who formed the first organized ninja system, now its up to Sasuke to reform it into a better second system.
The sheer optimism on Sasuke's part that things will work out down the generations is miss-placed though (how can he be so certain of his philosophy.. what proof does he have.. its like doing the same thing again and expecting different results..). Naruto resolve on the other hand converges on utter stupidity. The failed Ninja system created the psychos @ Akatsuki and produced 4 world wars is a monstrosity that has ruined him and everyone he knows. I cannot be worth fighting for or defending. This leads to the conclusion that there was nothing wrong with Madara's plan. It resoundingly permanent and solved all the problems plaguing the world.. a sort of heaven (which neither of Sasukes' or Narutos' dreams are). Going about actually doing it could of used a bit more planning imho ... the whole war was useless (just Obitio's psycho fetish)

Wait am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying that Madara plan is a good one? The complete and utter collapse of freedom or will is a good thing?

[akumaten]

~claps~
I am not surprised at the least, though I'm glad. Hopefully both Sasuke and Naruto would both off each other (like they wanted to).

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by akumaten

~claps~
I am not surprised at the least, though I'm glad. Hopefully both Sasuke and Naruto would both off each other (like they wanted to).

and then orochimaru becomes the 6th hokage

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

Not really we could debate Danzos character the whole day but Danzo wasn't really a bad person his means for achieving his goals were not the best ways to go about doing things.

Well i guess if we started to debate it we would never end it
In my opinion he was the most evil that the ninja system could produce, it's that simple.

Originally Posted by Shinagami

Naruto faced a much more bigger threat than Sasuke he faced the "leader" of akatsuki

I didn't say that Pain was weaker than Danzou, it doesn't matter which was stronger. My point was that Naruto was never really a revolutionary. In case of Pain he made a hard decision, but as usual he never had to face it's consequences, because Pain instead of escaping revived everybody. Had Pain escaped and continued his war on the ninja system they would have blamed Naruto, and that would have been interesting. He didn't have face an evil hokage either, because Danzou was killed before Naruto ever faced him. It was not Naruto who made the ninja alliance, in fact he didn't do shit to stop the "hatred" between villages. The one who did that was Tobito. ( Funny thing that Tobito was a bit like Ozymandias to the world: he created an ultimate threat that united the world. Of course not counting his real intent )

Originally Posted by Shinagami

What Sasukes doing is childish he's repeating what generations before him had done it doesn't change the cycle of hatered in the ninja world. Narutos idealism trumps Sasukes pragmatism any day even in the real world Narutos outlook is far better than Sasukes. Sasukes revolution will only bring more violence than solutions.

Well this is partly true, but at least he has some kind of plan, while Naruto has none. I particularly liked this chapter because it showed what it really means to be a revolutionary: it means that you have to first destroy something and only then you can build something else. So as if my complaining about Naruto being called a revolutionary was somehow addressed finally

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Sasuke isn't pragmatic. He is delusional. He has seen people fail at what he is attempting to do, but still plows on with a poorly devised plan, destined to implode.

Surely behind his seeming pragmatism there are some bad feelings. But right now his decision to destroy these 9 beasts is pragmatic, since that will prevent any further trouble. His decision to kill the kages might be rational too if we assume he wants to blame the kage system and if we assume he has in mind a better system. Of course we know how "delusional" and egocentric ( some even say "emo" ) Sasuke is, so we know that he can't really be rational. He says he wants a revolution, and we know how revolutions work, kings and queens don't survive these. So far he seems rational. His real "delusional" self will come out later during his battle with Naruto i guess.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Killing the 5 kages will change nothing. They are beloved in their villages and it will forever brand Sasuke as a monster. All it does is continue the cycle of hate. It does not change the ninja system since there is no better alternative offered. Even if Sasuke planned to turn the civilian population and smaller villages against the big 5, it would just make him a Pain reject. It won't work.

The "cycle of hate" ends when one side completely destroys the other. Well in the real world, surely this won't happen in the narutoverse. But right now if Sasuke wins he can decide the fate of every person/village without any fight: since everybody is trapped in the tree he can save those who are part of his plan and kill the others without any fighting. For those who survive he will be the savior and all others don't matter. And all those who hated him can be just put to death or left inside the tree.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

If Sasuke had more intelligence and charisma, he could have made an excellent alternative to Narutism. He could have presented an argument for his way of life. He had some of the ninja alliance even cheering for him against the biju. He could have been a great leader. But in the end, he could not hack it, and reverted back to failed ideals.

Well i think the "happy end" of this manga will show him as intelligent and charismatic. As you said it's quite predictable that Naruto will somehow not only beat him but make him help to end IT, and i think he will also resurrect the alliance army.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

If it is shown that IT can be broken without Sasuke, then this fight might enter uncharted territory.

I think it would be the same, because Naruto said he can't be a hokage if he can't even save one friend, and things like that, many times. So for Naruto to achieve his goals i think there's no way that Sasuke dies or remains evil in the end.
What is open in my opininon is if Naruto will let Sasuke be hokage in the end, that would be a surprising end for many.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Well if the world is just the world of ninja, but in reality the ninja are only a few of the people. Back when the manga started we see the story of Haku, and that didn't tell us that people liked ninjas. Ninja are probably associated with war and destruction, so the general population might be happy if Sasuke ends this whole ninja system and creates a better one. Surely the population of the rain country thinks so, since they were regularly fucked up by the surrounding 3 big ninja villages.

One thing you forget is that war has very little to do with the everyday activities of ninjas. Wars only happen once every few decades; during peace time, the ninjas are largely doing other types of work. What we saw very early on in the series is that D-rank missions include finding lost pets, babysitting, shopping, farming, etc. Heck the genin are actually the ninjas the people have the most contact with. A ninja's village's funding comes from what amounts to various kinds of social services, much of which are not vital services. The village would not be able to support itself WITHOUT the support of the people of their country; If the people HATED the ninjas then they would not hire them to do oddjobs that they can get any neighborhood kid to do, and the village's funding would suffer; like it did when the sand village started loosing work to Konoha. Not to mention in many countries IRL, soldiers are often honored and treated as heroes BECAUSE they fight in war (unless they happen to be working for a government that the people consider corrupt)

Really we don't have nearly enough interaction with regular folks to claim their is some kind of mass hatred for the ninja system. Heck the few regular folks we did get to know were the people from the village with the bridge and they didn't seem to show any animosity for ninjas... in fact they thought ninjas could solve their gangster problem. Also the non-ninja villagers of Konoha seem to love their ninjas.

Also Sasuke has shown no plan. Killing the kages will not suddenly end the ninja system; the villages will just select new leaders and continue business like normal. If anything, Sasuke's revolution is likely to cause another huge war and thus not make him seem any different than the rest of the ninja villages. He's really just sowing the seeds of chaos and anarchy, not a new world order. You kinda need both a solid plan, and a strong following by the people to accomplish that.