High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by vietthai96

Sorry Sirzech can topple gods because he is in top 10 and Hades hesitate because the fight can destroy his realm, no one claim that Sirzech can easily destroy Hades; now Rizevim is not top 10, and he have no feat of beating God-class around, so no Super Devil is not necessary that they can topple any Gods, yeah they can fight gods but overwhelming them is not a game; so until now only those who in top 10 can topple many Gods easily, Issei in Psuedo DxD G is top 10; Baalberith is said to have aura that make him can fight even Dragon God-class, Mahabali is no where near that and even his team is combat-type team he got snowball at his face with pure raw power; Verrine's power level is unknown, but it is possible that she also have top 10 power level, their team lost to Diehauser because Baaalberith is not focus on the match and Diehauser have insane amount of experiences from Rating Game rule to fighting skills/tactics.

Which team lost to Belial? And Rizevim is as strong as Gods, I will put him on the same level as the Chief Gods.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

There is tiers even in Gods. EJOD could rival Gods not suited to battle just as Indra has said yet still have greater amount of Aura than Maous.

And Super Devils are devils who surpasses the limits of the species of Devil, and the limit is Satan Class, reaching Satan Class is consider the peak of Devils, going further that is a Super Devil just as a Super Human surpasses the limits of Humans.

Now, Super Devil power does not have a measurement, it could go from above Satan Class (EJOD) to Baalberith (Dragon God).

Also, Balor Rias or any Longinus user has the potential to defeat Gods, that is what the legend says, they have already reached Levels to challenge them, so winning or not will just be decided by who they are matched against. I mean, they could defeat Gods not suited for battle. So yeah, pretty much they have God Class power, though not top 10 beings power yet.

Super Devils are beings that are so powerful that they are questioned if they are even called devils at all. I've always questions if Maou class was truly the so called limit to devils but I doubt it. This is why Vali's DxD L is considered a Super Devil because of the massive gap in power between that form and his EJOD. The same goes for Issei in Shin Volume 1, where it was stated his Psuedo DxD can match a Super Devil.

As for Super humans? Vasco Strada in his prime is God class and yet he's been stated to reach the limits of humanity so he wouldn't be called a Super Human according to the story despite how strong he is.

People like Balor Rias and Sairaorg BTB are stronger than Maou class but notice their power are never stated to be that of a Super Devil. Just stated to be "Above" Maou class. Super Devils are devils that are at the world tier where can fight or defeat some of the strongest gods.

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Super Devils are beings that are so powerful that they are questioned if they are even called devils at all. I've always questions if Maou class was truly the so called limit to devils but I doubt it. This is why Vali's DxD L is considered a Super Devil because of the massive gap in power between that form and his EJOD. The same goes for Issei in Shin Volume 1, where it was stated his Psuedo DxD can match a Super Devil.

As for Super humans? Vasco Strada in his prime is God class and yet he's been stated to reach the limits of humanity so he wouldn't be called a Super Human according to the story despite how strong he is.

People like Balor Rias and Sairaorg BTB are stronger than Maou class but notice their power are never stated to be that of a Super Devil. Just stated to be "Above" Maou class. Super Devils are devils that are at the world tier where can fight or defeat some of the strongest gods.

In volume 21 Vali and Issei are still questioned if they are super devil just as EJOD. Why? Because their timelimit:

From Volume 21:

In the human world, Trihexa and the Evil Dragons left behind a tremendous impact, as well as the irregular, supernatural presences which fought against them; all of them were recorded by the media, and it triggered an enormous and controversial debate between humans. And so, this battle left behind an inerasable scar on both the human world, and the supernatural worlds. However, in this campaign, a new hope was also born. Two future Super Devil candidates appeared on the Devil’s side. They were the ones known within the history of the Two Heavenly Dragons as the rare talents [Hakuryuukou of the Morning Star] Vali Lucifer and [Sekiryuutei of the Blazing Truth][74] Hyoudou Issei—.

In volume 21, after Trixeha incident, they were not consider yet as Super Devil even though they had DxD.

Now, as Cao Cao said in volume 12:

“……No. The form Vali used to kill Pluto instantly... it wouldn’t be an exaggeration if I were to call him a Super-Devil. –So it will be impossible for me to beat him as well. It’s a simple difference in power and power output. He can take me down just by using power alone.”

Defeated Pluto, above Satan Class, INSTANTLY !!!

Till date, Vali and Issei are not considered as God Class, much less Super Devils. There is no oficial statements that says so. Even in Volume 24, the battle of Crom and Vali, it was just said this:

[[Dragon Lucifer Drive!!!!!!!!]]

What appeared in that place was a brilliant new Hakuryuukou with twelve black wings of Lucifer, and armour that was dyed in silvery-white and jet-black tones—. The shape of the armour seemed to beautifully resemble an organic form. …Rias once again realised how difficult it was to get close. The quality of his aura could instil fear in others—. One could even say that his aura could match that of a Super Devil. The quality and quantity of his aura had soared immensely from his silvery-white form.

Vali is just matching them, and still not consider as one as even Rizevim. Aint that funny?

So saying that EJOD is not on Super Devil tier while ignoring that not even DxD or DxD L are still not considered as one is being hypocrite. We have to be fair and say non form is Super Devil Class.

Or lets be realistic and accept both are on the category of super devil and that Super Devil does not have a measurement, it just goes from being stronger than Satans and rivaling Gods, be it the strongest or the weakest gods.

As for Sairaorg and Gasper, the same with Issei and Vali, non are said to be super devils yet, but in the novel ExE there is 6 super devils confirmed, one of them Gasper, of course Sairaorg will be another.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

Kid looks like you did not see some things very important for Power Scaling. Do the math.

If Low tier Grim Reapers are stronger to Mid Class devils, do you think Mid tier Grim Reapers will be as strong as Mid Class devils and as strong as their Low tier Grim Reapers?

Of course the same will apply to each tier of them. It wont make sense if the formula does not apply to a certain tier of them, otherwise we will have Mid Class Grim Reapers being as strong as Low Tier Grim Reapers and this does not make sense.

* Ultimate Grim Reaper > High Grim Reaper > Mid Grim Reaper > Low Grim Reaper:
* Ultimate Devil > High Devil > Mid Devil > Low Devil
* If Low Grim Reaper > Mid Devil & if Mid Grim Reaper > Low Grim Reaper then Mid Grim Reaper = ???

That is the math.

Oh no, if only class were wide enough to contain a variety of power levels OH WAIT.

And again, even if you take this as gospel that only puts them at Maou class at beat, not God as you were asserting.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

Little g (God) does not mean nothing, you are right. That is why they are little g and not real Gods, their potential is less than Gods. IMO their potential is being Ultimate Class tier of Devils, while Ross potential increased by mixing her potential with a Devil.

So you're admitting the Ultimate-class Grim reapers aren't God-class then.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

And Azazel was serious vs Pluto, he even had to use his Balance Breaker, just a reminder, Azazel fodderized Catheleya who was Satan Class tier and from words of her, equal to Serafall. While vs Pluto, Azazel couldnt defeat him and had an equal battle. Azazel is above Satan Class tier with his Balance Breaker, after all he was already a strong fool without it.

And I dont know what you are talking, what will make Issei, Sairaorg and Cao Cao God Class?

Cao Cao defeats BxB Azazel in his base form. Cao Cao must be God-class on your scale.

Issei then overwhelms base Cao Cao with Trianna. Triana Issei must therefore be God-class on your scale.

Sairong overwhelms Trianna Issei with BxB. Sairong must therefore be God-class on your scale.

Or maybe you're wrong about Azazel. Take a guess which is more likely.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

Yeah, Orcus was paralleled with Odin and Zeus since they had kids, but so does Sirzechs. They put him on their side since they are consider Gods, not just because they had kids hahahaha.

Uh, no. The statement was literally "these people had kids". It had zilch to do with power.

[/QUOTE]Vali did not get a boost? For real? Is that the reason he started the Rating game with his EJOD, fought Strada for a moment then fought Crom for another moment and he was bothered by its timelimit?

I am not debating if silvery white is referred to EJOD, you are right in that, I was wrong. I am debating that EJOD could already rival Gods. That will make Strada a very strong fool.[/QUOTE]

BOI.

This entire conversation has been about your claim that Vali was in BxB.

Why are we still here talking about it.

What was the point in this.

argdnudfbsnoenf;jger;v oiwnsf/o;curpmv;woen' gijnwemfo:Lcns dVSD,v'polsdmlk.................................XF IRE.EXE HAS CRASHED

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by XFire

Oh no, if only class were wide enough to contain a variety of power levels OH WAIT.

And again, even if you take this as gospel that only puts them at Maou class at beat, not God as you were asserting.



So you're admitting the Ultimate-class Grim reapers aren't God-class then.



Cao Cao defeats BxB Azazel in his base form. Cao Cao must be God-class on your scale.

Issei then overwhelms base Cao Cao with Trianna. Triana Issei must therefore be God-class on your scale.

Sairong overwhelms Trianna Issei with BxB. Sairong must therefore be God-class on your scale.

Or maybe you're wrong about Azazel. Take a guess which is more likely.




Uh, no. The statement was literally "these people had kids". It had zilch to do with power.

Vali did not get a boost? For real? Is that the reason he started the Rating game with his EJOD, fought Strada for a moment then fought Crom for another moment and he was bothered by its timelimit?

I am not debating if silvery white is referred to EJOD, you are right in that, I was wrong. I am debating that EJOD could already rival Gods. That will make Strada a very strong fool.[/QUOTE]

BOI.

This entire conversation has been about your claim that Vali was in BxB.

Why are we still here talking about it.

What was the point in this.

argdnudfbsnoenf;jger;v oiwnsf/o;curpmv;woen' gijnwemfo:Lcns dVSD,v'polsdmlk.................................XF IRE.EXE HAS CRASHED[/QUOTE]

1.- Understand what I am saying. Dont confuse Valkyrias who are said be Demi Gods with Grim Reapers who are said to be Gods. The little g will be the Valkyrias, not the grim reapers. The highest level of Grim Reapers is Ultimate Class tier which is said to be stronger than the next tier of Devils, the next tier of Ultimate Class in the Devil System is Satan class, that will make Ultimate Class Grim Reapers stronger or as strong as Average Satan Class tiers. And from that point starts God Class with has so many levels in just that class since there is no other way to called them. Just God Class.

2.- Admitting they arent in God Class? Where? You jsut didnt understood what I said. I said that being stronger than Satan Class, starts God Class which is where Ultimate Class Grim Reapers belong and from where Super Devil Class starts.

3.- Do you know what separates each tier? It is their aura and power, not only their skills. Cao Cao being God Class? Even Cao Cao said that Vali EJOD will defeat him with no effort at volume 12. Cao Cao also said that in a third fight against Azazel, he will lose. And you think he should be as strong as them? Volume 7 or 8, Cao Cao said he will be dead against a direct hit of Triana when it barely awaken.

Issei said it well, Cao Cao could be considered as the ultimate Technique fighter, he does not use power, he uses his cunning. This aint a matter of power but than skills. Cao Cao ignores your power inbetween a limit he can handle. That will answer your question about Sairaorg or Issei.

4.- Yeah, it does not have to do with powers the statement of Orcus with Odin, it has to do that even Gods has Kids, Gods such as Orcus and Odin. Gods. G O D S. G..O..D..S.

5.- The topic of EJOD was let time ago, never mentioned it again if you dont notice.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

1.- Understand what I am saying. Dont confuse Valkyrias who are said be Demi Gods with Grim Reapers who are said to be Gods. The little g will be the Valkyrias, not the grim reapers. The highest level of Grim Reapers is Ultimate Class tier which is said to be stronger than the next tier of Devils, the next tier of Ultimate Class in the Devil System is Satan class, that will make Ultimate Class Grim Reapers stronger or as strong as Average Satan Class tiers. And from that point starts God Class with has so many levels in just that class since there is no other way to called them. Just God Class.

No, lower class Grim Reapers are said to be equal to Middle class Devils. That's literally all.

If you decide to scale up that means Ultimate Grim Reapers are Satan-class at best, and that's pushing it.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

2.- Admitting they arent in God Class? Where? You jsut didnt understood what I said. I said that being stronger than Satan Class, starts God Class which is where Ultimate Class Grim Reapers belong and from where Super Devil Class starts.

Grim Reapers are little g gods (unless you think Bennia is a God-class), we were talking about Grim Reapers, you admitted they weren't God-class.

If you were talking about Valkyries there then your mind jumped track before your fingers caught up, buddy.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

3.- Do you know what separates each tier? It is their aura and power, not only their skills. Cao Cao being God Class? Even Cao Cao said that Vali EJOD will defeat him with no effort at volume 12. Cao Cao also said that in a third fight against Azazel, he will lose. And you think he should be as strong as them? Volume 7 or 8, Cao Cao said he will be dead against a direct hit of Triana when it barely awaken.

Issei said it well, Cao Cao could be considered as the ultimate Technique fighter, he does not use power, he uses his cunning. This aint a matter of power but than skills. Cao Cao ignores your power inbetween a limit he can handle. That will answer your question about Sairaorg or Issei.

Cao Cao.

Beat.

BxB Azazel.

The one you are ranking "above Maou-class".

He could not do the same to Trianna Issei, meaning that unlike Azazel the power difference was too great to overcome with skill. Meaning Trianna Issei >>> BxB Azazel and therefore is God-class on your scale.

Which means Sairong is also God-class for overpowering Trianna.

And round and round it goes.

Also Cao Cao said he'd lose that third fight because Azazel would have come up with a countermeasure, meaning he couldn't beat Cao Cao with raw force.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

4.- Yeah, it does not have to do with powers the statement of Orcus with Odin, it has to do that even Gods has Kids, Gods such as Orcus and Odin. Gods. G O D S. G..O..D..S.

And this still has nothing to do with power.

Originally Posted by kiiro94

5.- The topic of EJOD was let time ago, never mentioned it again if you dont notice.

That topic has been the basis of the entire conversation. Trying to shift goal posts now just makes you look worse.

"The form that can defeat a God" is DxD and therefore EJOD doesn't receive the same qualifier.

Your scaling of the Grim Reapers based off a throwaway comment about their lower ranks makes no sense in context of the series, and completely falls apart when examining their feats.

Your attempts to power scale of Azazel self-destruct spectacularly because of his loss to Cao Cao and Cao Cao needing BxB to fight a below Maou-class CxC Issei.

There....isn't anything here. I'm not even sure what you think you're talking about anymore? EJOD being God-class? No, you admitted EJOD wasn't "the form that can defeat a God". Azazel being "above Maou"? No, there's literally no way to defend that at this point. Grim Reapers being two ranks above the equivalent class devil? No, that contradicts even your own inconclusive statement.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing, and its got you so riled up your coherency has begun to suffer.

The issue has been resolved to my satisfaction and anyone reading this is unlikely to come down on your side of the argument given the evidence presented, so I'd say we're done here.

Peace.

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by XFire

No, lower class Grim Reapers are said to be equal to Middle class Devils. That's literally all.

If you decide to scale up that means Ultimate Grim Reapers are Satan-class at best, and that's pushing it.



Grim Reapers are little g gods (unless you think Bennia is a God-class), we were talking about Grim Reapers, you admitted they weren't God-class.

If you were talking about Valkyries there then your mind jumped track before your fingers caught up, buddy.



Cao Cao.

Beat.

BxB Azazel.

The one you are ranking "above Maou-class".

He could not do the same to Trianna Issei, meaning that unlike Azazel the power difference was too great to overcome with skill. Meaning Trianna Issei >>> BxB Azazel and therefore is God-class on your scale.

Which means Sairong is also God-class for overpowering Trianna.

And round and round it goes.

Also Cao Cao said he'd lose that third fight because Azazel would have come up with a countermeasure, meaning he couldn't beat Cao Cao with raw force.



And this still has nothing to do with power.



That topic has been the basis of the entire conversation. Trying to shift goal posts now just makes you look worse.

"The form that can defeat a God" is DxD and therefore EJOD doesn't receive the same qualifier.

Your scaling of the Grim Reapers based off a throwaway comment about their lower ranks makes no sense in context of the series, and completely falls apart when examining their feats.

Your attempts to power scale of Azazel self-destruct spectacularly because of his loss to Cao Cao and Cao Cao needing BxB to fight a below Maou-class CxC Issei.

There....isn't anything here. I'm not even sure what you think you're talking about anymore? EJOD being God-class? No, you admitted EJOD wasn't "the form that can defeat a God". Azazel being "above Maou"? No, there's literally no way to defend that at this point. Grim Reapers being two ranks above the equivalent class devil? No, that contradicts even your own inconclusive statement.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing, and its got you so riled up your coherency has begun to suffer.

The issue has been resolved to my satisfaction and anyone reading this is unlikely to come down on your side of the argument given the evidence presented, so I'd say we're done here.

Peace.

1.- Didnt you read the quote? The right quote says that Low Grim are "stronger" that average Mid Devils, not equal, stronger. Reason that Grim Reapers could rival or even be stronger than average Satans. Read the quote right.
2.- Not all Grim Reapers are God Tier, they have potential to reach that level, that is all. So Bennia could reach that level, in her system it will be Ultimate Tier Grim Reaper which is enough power to rival some Gods, but I doubt she will reach that level.
3.- Kid, if you cant see the reasons of why or how could Cao Cao handle both, Vali and Azazel or just chose to ignore it for reasons that might give you right against my arguments then there is 2 options, this is beyond your understanding or chose not to be it in this case trying to make you be right in a stupid argument.

"Cao Cao defeat BxB Azazel"

You: Cao Cao is God Class
Reality: Cao Cao won not due power but due Technique.

The same happens with Sanji with his black flames that Loki had a hard time against, that does not make him God Class lol. It is just that his Techniques are OP. In fact hahaha, 1 stab from the the true longinus is said to cost half the HP of a God.

O wait, Cao Cao also made a Dragon as strong as a Celestial Dragon lose conscious and not for that reason he is Celestial Dragon tier. Cao Cao is the ultimate technique fighter, understand it kid. Power wise, is even lower than Maou without his Longinus.

And you are using stupid arguments, stupid arguments that only kids will use since their reasoning is not develop.

"Sairaorg is God Class since bla bla bla" "Triana is God Class since bla bla bla"

Dude, what are you even debating? Go read the novel again and find the real reasons. It doesnt matter what stupid logic you use to try to break my arguments, Azazel low diffed a Satan Class with his BxB. How strong is he? Dont know but stronger than Satan Class is a fact and the next tier of Satan Class is not hard to know.

4- Gods. G..O..D..S. It refers to a Class, of couse Odin and Zeus are stronger lol. It means that Orcus is a God, even though he is weaker. Doubt you can understand it, if you dont, dont bother to debate it.

5.- Evidence presented? There is non from you lol.

EJOD already can rival Gods. Just because Vali said that DxD L can defeat them, it does not mean EJOD cant when all the volumes before has already given proof.

[XFire]

Kay, so normally I wouldn't respond, but your line of logic is almost fascinating in how twisted its become. I'm leaving the "discussion" dead in the dirt where it belongs, but as someone whose dabbled in vs debating before, I feel obligated to point out just how twisted your power scale has become.

Just to emphasize how messed up this has gotten to everyone else in the thread who might be missing context....

-> You are claiming that BxB Azazel is "beyond Maou-class", which you claim to be God-class.

-> Cao Cao defeated him in his base state.

-> Cao Cao beat him using technique, meaning his technique is good enough to overcome the power difference between him and a "God-class" (according to you) fighter

-> Cao Cao is overwhelmed and beaten down by Trianna Issei, meaning his technique is not sufficient to overcome the difference of power between him and Trianna Issei

-> Trianna Issei is therefore above Azazel in power and must be God-class, because as you yourself stated Class is determined by power and aura

-> This then scales to everyone above Trianna Issei

This is your line of "logic". This is the basis of your argument.

It's wrong.

It is completely, inescapably wrong.

To emphasize again how completely BS this line of logic is, CxC Issei, who is greater than Trianna Issei, is not even Maou class at the time. Sairong, who latter overpowers a much stronger and more skilled Cao Cao, is just around Maou class as of current volume. EJOD, which Cao Cao can't defeat, is explicitly incapable of defeating a God at the time.

Azazel literally can't be God-class without inherently power scaling 95% of the main class to that state.

The fact that Azazel can lose to Cao Cao while Vali cannot, despite Vali being explicitly incapable of beating a God in the state that Cao Cao can't beat, should tell you how wrong it is to put him there.

And the fact that your idea of defense was to bring up Truth Idea, the manifestation of the power of the God of the Bible, and try to pass it off as something Cao Cao is capable of by himself, is the epitome of how bad this all is.

This isn't an argument, this is a self fueling wank fest. An Ouroboros of power escalation that devours itself alive.

You've locked on to a single conclusion and are trying to rearrange the story to fit it, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[XFire]

Anyways, between the constant self-destruction and increasing toxicity it's pretty clear this isn't going anywhere productive, so this will be my last post on the subject.

Sorry to the rest of you for kinda highjacking the thread there (and for the double post). Cheers.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

In volume 21 Vali and Issei are still questioned if they are super devil just as EJOD. Why? Because their timelimit:

From Volume 21:



In volume 21, after Trixeha incident, they were not consider yet as Super Devil even though they had DxD.

Now, as Cao Cao said in volume 12:



Defeated Pluto, above Satan Class, INSTANTLY !!!

Till date, Vali and Issei are not considered as God Class, much less Super Devils. There is no oficial statements that says so. Even in Volume 24, the battle of Crom and Vali, it was just said this:



Vali is just matching them, and still not consider as one as even Rizevim. Aint that funny?

So saying that EJOD is not on Super Devil tier while ignoring that not even DxD or DxD L are still not considered as one is being hypocrite. We have to be fair and say non form is Super Devil Class.

Or lets be realistic and accept both are on the category of super devil and that Super Devil does not have a measurement, it just goes from being stronger than Satans and rivaling Gods, be it the strongest or the weakest gods.

As for Sairaorg and Gasper, the same with Issei and Vali, non are said to be super devils yet, but in the novel ExE there is 6 super devils confirmed, one of them Gasper, of course Sairaorg will be another.

But the difference is Vali and Issei are implied multiple times to be God class or having the power of Super devils. Them being candidates means they just doesn't have the official title of "Super Devil". Simply being "Above" Maou class doesn't mean you match the power of gods. It just means you can fight them. If fighting a God means you're a Super Devil then but that logic Asia, Kiba and Xenovia would be a Super Devil do to them fighting God class fighters.

Balor Rias for example only fought on par with 80% Fenrir due to compatibility which was no different to how Kiba was able to fight Issei with his speed and compatibility so is Kiba a Super Devil?

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

But the difference is Vali and Issei are implied multiple times to be God class or having the power of Super devils. Them being candidates means they just doesn't have the official title of "Super Devil". Simply being "Above" Maou class doesn't mean you match the power of gods. It just means you can fight them. If fighting a God means you're a Super Devil then but that logic Asia, Kiba and Xenovia would be a Super Devil do to them fighting God class fighters.

Balor Rias for example only fought on par with 80% Fenrir due to compatibility which was no different to how Kiba was able to fight Issei with his speed and compatibility so is Kiba a Super Devil?

Yeah, and Vali has been said to rival Gods with EJOD before DxD L. That is the discussion, that the other user uses stupid logic to my arguments to try to downplay them as making Triana forms to be God Class is beyond retarded.

I brought this argument for a reason, and the reason is that Vali said he is gonna use DxD L that can defeat Gods to defeat Strada. Vali saying such thing suggests that EJOD cant defeat Gods.

Now in order to proof otherwise, I had to bring that even DxD L has not made Vali nor Issei still Gods officially so saying that only those forms are God Tier is being hypocrite when EJOD has already been refereed to rival some Gods.

Now, dont confuse being able to fight a God to being able to rival their power. This wont make Asia or those who you mention Gods, otherwise Issei would had been God Class since volume 7 or 8 when he fought Loki and that aint true.

As for Kiba, the same. And Rias vs Fenrir was not due compatibility lol, Rias is indeed strong, strong enough to challenge Fenrir but he was stronger at the end.

[The Infinite Dream]

The only thing that has been stated is it has the power output to reach gods. It has never been stated to be god class. CxC also has the power output the reach gods yet it is not god class. Just stop with the arguing already we already know you arent going to agree with anyone

[kiiro94]

The smart guy has talked, yet cant figure the reasons of the feats behind. I will quote part by part to make it easier to understand.

Originally Posted by XFire

Kay, so normally I wouldn't respond, but your line of logic is almost fascinating in how twisted its become. I'm leaving the "discussion" dead in the dirt where it belongs, but as someone whose dabbled in vs debating before, I feel obligated to point out just how twisted your power scale has become.

Twisted? You are the one twisting the arguments, not to benefit yours, but to make the argument be bad and out of the real logic. Why? Maybe becase you cant understand them.

Originally Posted by XFire

Just to emphasize how messed up this has gotten to everyone else in the thread who might be missing context....

-> You are claiming that BxB Azazel is "beyond Maou-class", which you claim to be God-class.

Simple question, what tier is after Satan Class? Answer that simple question. Lets see what you say and that will clear many things. Then I will quote you "quoting my line of logic" which is fully twisted by you.

Originally Posted by XFire

This is your line of "logic". This is the basis of your argument.

It's wrong.

It is completely, inescapably wrong.

I dont see an argument of yours disproving it, just an wrong application of the logic I am using, applying it at the wrong way wont mean it is wrong, It just means that you cant understand it and twisting things.

Originally Posted by XFire

To emphasize again how completely BS this line of logic is, CxC Issei, who is greater than Trianna Issei, is not even Maou class at the time. Sairong, who latter overpowers a much stronger and more skilled Cao Cao, is just around Maou class as of current volume. EJOD, which Cao Cao can't defeat, is explicitly incapable of defeating a God at the time.

Yeah, that is a thing I never said hahahah. Bringing things that dont apply from the logic I used and trying hard to make them fit. You are being ignorant and not taking the real reasons of those feats and trying to mix them with the logic used.

That shows how arrogant and prideful you are to accept the reality as it is twisting things which wont benefit you.

Originally Posted by XFire

Azazel literally can't be God-class without inherently power scaling 95% of the main class to that state.

The fact that Azazel can lose to Cao Cao while Vali cannot, despite Vali being explicitly incapable of beating a God in the state that Cao Cao can't beat, should tell you how wrong it is to put him there.

Who said EJOD cant defeat a God?
EJOD Vali > BxB Azazel, that is all. Cao Cao > Azazel? Not really since Cao Cao admitted he will lose to him in a third time. Cao Cao > BxB Vali? Dont know, Cao Cao defeated them both since he could read their attacks, not because he was stronger in terms of aura.

Originally Posted by XFire

And the fact that your idea of defense was to bring up Truth Idea, the manifestation of the power of the God of the Bible, and try to pass it off as something Cao Cao is capable of by himself, is the epitome of how bad this all is.

This isn't an argument, this is a self fueling wank fest. An Ouroboros of power escalation that devours itself alive.

You've locked on to a single conclusion and are trying to rearrange the story to fit it, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The fact I brought that? No, not because I brought that means I am wrong. I showed that Cao Cao is not Celestial Dragon tier just because he made a Apophis lose his mind.

I brought this to prove that having and OP technique to somehow manage to fight for a moment a stronger opponent to you, does not mean you are stronger than him. This is the same argument with Cao Cao with Vali and Azazel.

Not because he could read their movements and he could elude them without much problem means he has the same power as them. And in case you forgot, Cao Cao used the eye of medusa and his Balance Breaker to overwhelm them, he used the maximum of his techniques. Go read the fight again.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by kiiro94

Yeah, and Vali has been said to rival Gods with EJOD before DxD L. That is the discussion, that the other user uses stupid logic to my arguments to try to downplay them as making Triana forms to be God Class is beyond retarded.

I brought this argument for a reason, and the reason is that Vali said he is gonna use DxD L that can defeat Gods to defeat Strada. Vali saying such thing suggests that EJOD cant defeat Gods.

Now in order to proof otherwise, I had to bring that even DxD L has not made Vali nor Issei still Gods officially so saying that only those forms are God Tier is being hypocrite when EJOD has already been refereed to rival some Gods.

Now, dont confuse being able to fight a God to being able to rival their power. This wont make Asia or those who you mention Gods, otherwise Issei would had been God Class since volume 7 or 8 when he fought Loki and that aint true.

As for Kiba, the same. And Rias vs Fenrir was not due compatibility lol, Rias is indeed strong, strong enough to challenge Fenrir but he was stronger at the end.

Vali did state his DxD L can defeat gods. The point is there is a difference between fighting a God and defeating a God. Until now EJOD haven't shown it can defeat gods while DxD L has.

Issei in Volume 7 never fought Loki on his own since he had help. Asia, Kiba and Xenovia at point fought God class fighters on their own.

Rias did put up a fight against Fenrir due to compatibility. Time stop and shadow teleport have Rias a tactical advantage to which Fenrir could do nothing to counter it. All he had was his stamina and durability in that fight. Anyone who has no long range capabilities would be at a disadvantage against Balor Rias. This is why in the Rias vs Issei rating game, Issei didn't bother trying to engage in close combat against Balor Rias.

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

The only thing that has been stated is it has the power output to reach gods. It has never been stated to be god class. CxC also has the power output the reach gods yet it is not god class. Just stop with the arguing already we already know you arent going to agree with anyone

CxC having power to rival Gods? Since when is that? Stop arguing? Agree with people when you are not right?

Facts are fact, no matter if I dont like them or if you dont like them, then will be facts and no one has brought them.

EJOD has the speed, has the power, has the durability. The only thing it lacked was the timelimit, which by feats has increased by a big margin in volume 24 (which is the discussion). That is the only reason it wasnt God Class, the same happened with Pseudo DxD of Issei, since it had 10 seconds of time limit even Satan Class beings can defeat him even though Iseei might triple their power only for some seconds.

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Vali did state his DxD L can defeat gods. The point is there is a difference between fighting a God and defeating a God. Until now EJOD haven't shown it can defeat gods while DxD L has.

Issei in Volume 7 never fought Loki on his own since he had help. Asia, Kiba and Xenovia at point fought God class fighters on their own.

Rias did put up a fight against Fenrir due to compatibility. Time stop and shadow teleport have Rias a tactical advantage to which Fenrir could do nothing to counter it. All he had was his stamina and durability in that fight. Anyone who has no long range capabilities would be at a disadvantage against Balor Rias. This is why in the Rias vs Issei rating game, Issei didn't bother trying to engage in close combat against Balor Rias.

So did Asia fight on his own a God since you brought her?

Until now It has not shown EJOD defeating a God? Mmm quite wrong, read this from volume 24:

Their original team composition was top-tier. In particular, Vali’s overwhelming offensive power allowed him to defeat even god-class opponents, and he had fought without reservation ever since the beginning of the tournament, thus sending the players of his opposing teams into the light of retirement in just an instant.

Now, you might say it was DxD who defeat those Gods, but we have Issei saying this in the same volume:

It was the first time that I had seen Vali’s Maouification, but…the quality of his aura was beyond belief! A mere blast of his demonic energy was sufficient enough to blow everything in its path away! All of the buildings surrounding them had already vanished, and their battlefield had become a vast open plain! Vali’s Maouification seems like it’s even stronger than my Dragon Deification!?

[Although there are aspects where you wouldn’t be inferior to Vali, Vali seems to be stronger overall.]

Also, look at how Vali thought that his EJOD could have a chance against Crom at the beginning, only to realize that regular Gods wont able to defeat him which suggests that EJOD has the power on one:

As a Heavenly Dragon, one who was known as the Strongest Hakuryuukou in History, and as a descendant of the Maou Lucifer, he had been overwhelmed. Vali painfully realised that it was impossible for his silvery-white armour to win against Crom. Indeed, he found himself helpless against Crom. —The Evil Dragon Crom Cruach wasn’t a dragon who could be defeated by even any ordinary god-class being. Although a stream of blood flowed down Vali’s forehead, he still showed a courageous smile. This was the evidence that he felt truly happy from the bottom of his heart. Vali also exposed an ecstatic smile. Whilst trembling with excitement, Vali said

So on panel EJOD has not defeated one, by given the hype it already has, also using the logic it is not unreasonable.

[The Infinite Dream]

Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames, Longinous Smasher, Nyuutron Beam Cannon all have power outputs to reach that of gods all of them can be used in CxC. Stop the discussion its pointless i never said you had to agree with anyone just stop rambling. Not to mention speed durability nor defense were even stated to be on par with gods just power output. Diehauser also defeated gods. Yet hes still not god class. Eh

[kiiro94]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames, Longinous Smasher, Nyuutron Beam Cannon all have power outputs to reach that of gods all of them can be used in CxC. Stop the discussion its pointless i never said you had to agree with anyone just stop rambling. Not to mention speed durability nor defense were even stated to be on par with gods just power output. Diehauser also defeated gods. Yet hes still not god class. Eh

Oh, you are right. CxC can reach power output of gods, unlike CxC, EJOD has been refereed as to be super devil, has fought God Tiers and has been said to have defeated.

And, dont discuss.

[aw454wtr]

Vali in DXDL vs Grand Zeno (from DBsuper) who would win

[The Infinite Dream]

Zeno hands down. Dude will just erase him unless he finds him interesting and fun lol. Better yet Shiva or Zeno?