Fate/stay night Episode 3 Discussion thread

[DwArD]

Phew~the first part of the ep sure got me hooked. Anyway, I can't help it but have the feeling that Tohsaka is a lot better as the master of Saber . Well, I can only hope that Saber will be able to show her true power someday with Emiya being her master. But seriously, I'll rather see the development between Saber and Emiya.

[Varion]

Heh, funny how most people didn't like the second half and I really enjoyed it. Possibly because I didn't know the stuff already I guess... and Kirei's voice with the atmosphere in the church and his eyes made the whole thing pretty gripping. Maybe I'm in the minority, though I'm glad I didn't download the raw now.

Although, question - unless it's a huge game spoiler or something in which case ignore it. How come Rin's "Archer, vanish!" was counted as Command Mantra but Emiya's "Stop it, Saber!" wasn't?

[DragoonKain3]

I'm confused; was Rin under any obligation to bring Emiya to the 'supervisor', to get things explained for him? Because if I was her, I'd be an opportunistic bastard and kill naive masters like Emiya first chance I get. And get an awesome servant to boot!

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Valdra

Although, question - unless it's a huge game spoiler or something in which case ignore it. How come Rin's "Archer, vanish!" was counted as Command Mantra but Emiya's "Stop it, Saber!" wasn't?

Spoiler:

If I recall properly, there's a chant neccesary to invoke the Command Mantra. The anime didn't show Rin saying it, but the game does, I think.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Valdra

Heh, funny how most people didn't like the second half and I really enjoyed it. Possibly because I didn't know the stuff already I guess... and Kirei's voice with the atmosphere in the church and his eyes made the whole thing pretty gripping. Maybe I'm in the minority, though I'm glad I didn't download the raw now.

I loved it too, sweet action first - then brilliant talk second.

It was mainly the music that did it for me in the second part.. it went amazingly well with everything you just said.

Originally Posted by Valdra

Although, question - unless it's a huge game spoiler or something in which case ignore it. How come Rin's "Archer, vanish!" was counted as Command Mantra but Emiya's "Stop it, Saber!" wasn't?

Just what i was thinking, but i think many people wouldn't if they haven't played the game or the translated demo..

Edit:

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Spoiler:

If I recall properly, there's a chant neccesary to invoke the Command Mantra. The anime didn't show Rin saying it, but the game does, I think.

Spoiler:

Aaah, that makes sense - i wonder if they'll expain it more in the anime..

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Spoiler:

If I recall properly, there's a chant neccesary to invoke the Command Mantra. The anime didn't show Rin saying it, but the game does, I think.

Ah, thanks for that

Spoiler for Demo Spoiler:

That's going to confuse so many people... especially because Rin only has one left, and the anime didn't show her first at all. Maybe it'll come up later I guess

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I'm confused; was Rin under any obligation to bring Emiya to the 'supervisor', to get things explained for him? Because if I was her, I'd be an opportunistic bastard and kill naive masters like Emiya first chance I get. And get an awesome servant to boot!

No. It's a matter of preference. Not everyone is a cowardly loser like Lancer's master who was hiding while his servant does his work. Like how the Holy Grail War wasn't supposed to officially start until Saber was summoned, but Lancer still fought with Archer.

It's a choice between honourable Masters/Servants who fight fairly, those who rely on dirty tricks, etc.

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Valdra

Although, question - unless it's a huge game spoiler or something in which case ignore it. How come Rin's "Archer, vanish!" was counted as Command Mantra but Emiya's "Stop it, Saber!" wasn't?

Because Rin commanded Archer to dematerialize/disappear.

Servants can become invisible so only their Master can see them.

However, other Servants and see and interact with invisible Servants as though they are actually there. (this is because Servants are just mana in the shape of their human form).

If Archer had just went invisible, then Saber would have just killed him. What Rin did was cause Archer to actually dematerialize, so Saber couldn't harm him.

So Rin asked Archer to do something normally impossible for him to do, thus used up one of her Command Mantras.

[DragoonKain3]

Ahh, it all makes sense now. Thanks Nightengale.

But seriously, with that much power on the line, there's no trick too underhanded as long as I come on top (and don't get disqualified of course). And judging by the rules so far, if this was a 'real' game, it's the one who has the most servants who'd come out on top (having an odd number of total servants guarantees no stalemate in the end). Might as well get a head start, since this is another one of those situations in which the rich get richer (the more servants you have, the easier it is to beat other masters and thus get more servants, and so on).

But hey, that makes me akin to Lancer's master, doesnt it? Oh well, not that I care, since I'd get my hearts desires in the end. >_<

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Ahh, it all makes sense now. Thanks Nightengale.

But seriously, with that much power on the line, there's no trick too underhanded as long as I come on top (and don't get disqualified of course). And judging by the rules so far, if this was a 'real' game, it's the one who has the most servants who'd come out on top (having an odd number of total servants guarantees no stalemate in the end). Might as well get a head start, since this is another one of those situations in which the rich get richer (the more servants you have, the easier it is to beat other masters and thus get more servants, and so on).

But hey, that makes me akin to Lancer's master, doesnt it? Oh well, not that I care, since I'd get my hearts desires in the end. >_<

Just because you may have the most Servants doesn't mean you'll win, since the Master is required to syphon their mana to their Servants in order to charge them up and keep them at their full power, also to do that, you'll have to forge a Contract with a Servant, and not all Servants will jump at the chance to join with a particular Master.

[Varion]

Thanks for the excellent explanation Village Idiot The demo's explanation of Command Mantras is all coming back to me now.

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Ahh, it all makes sense now. Thanks Nightengale.

But seriously, with that much power on the line, there's no trick too underhanded as long as I come on top (and don't get disqualified of course). And judging by the rules so far, if this was a 'real' game, it's the one who has the most servants who'd come out on top (having an odd number of total servants guarantees no stalemate in the end). Might as well get a head start, since this is another one of those situations in which the rich get richer (the more servants you have, the easier it is to beat other masters and thus get more servants, and so on).

But hey, that makes me akin to Lancer's master, doesnt it? Oh well, not that I care, since I'd get my hearts desires in the end. >_<

Rin's attitude towards Emiya says it all though, she doesn't seem to see him as a decent opponent right now at all. As someone said earlier in the topic, she was caught off guard that time. They've known each other for a while (we already know she's not cold, she revived Emiya with her pendant when he should've been killed for witnessing the Grail War), Rin already saved her from being killed by Saber and she doesn't exactly see him as competent, so it doesn't seem all that illogical for her to at least get him briefed on the situation.

[Mr. Guy]

You also need to take into account that Tohsaka saved Emiya once. A Master without a Servant can still be considered a target for the other Masters. If she wanted Shirou alive, she would need him to know the rules of the war so that he could use Saber properly should Lancer come back.

Spoiler for Not spoilerly joke for 'that' scene in game:

And then there's the fact that Rin wouldn't want Saber dead as well. Saber's "charisma" works on more then just males

[F!reStr!fe]

Yea because if i recall there was a way for a servants to change hands so its not at all illogical to kill a master without his/her servant.

[evil-samurai]

I have to say Saber's VA does a great job, and I love her Character now after watching ep.3, The part where she was telling lancer that her weapon could be either a spear, axe or even a bow with the small smile on her face was Great

Well the animation for the fighing scenes seemed a little different and lancer didn't come across as that evil this time. Ilya sure gives off a little evil/innocent vibe with her entrance, and holy Cra*p! wow! she has a huge Servent... with her one thing I love about Ilya is here 'Red' eyes, though havn't seen a whole lot of her character yet.. well then havn't even introduced some other ones yet, that purple hair girl in the intro.

Though what was with the Poor music and replaying some of the scenes at the start of ep.3, that was done really Crappy there :/ but in all it was pretty good I didn't mind all the talking, it was needed for people who havn't play the game to understand some things.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Just because you may have the most Servants doesn't mean you'll win, since the Master is required to syphon their mana to their Servants in order to charge them up and keep them at their full power, also to do that, you'll have to forge a Contract with a Servant, and not all Servants will jump at the chance to join with a particular Master.

I'm pretty sure that competent Masters have enough mana to keep at least 2 Servants at full power, otherwise what's the point in giving the option of having more than 1 Servant? And once I have the maximum amount of servants that I can keep at full power, every other servant needs to be killed in order to prevent others from using them. Even having only 2 Servants, as long as I make sure no one else gets more than 1, I am guaranteed victory unless I make a stupid mistake.

As for making the defeated Servants contract with you, that's another matter. It all rests on one's persuasion skills, which is a separate matter from battle tactics. Still though, having a chance of getting one more servant is better than having no chance at all.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Valdra

Rin's attitude towards Emiya says it all though, she doesn't seem to see him as a decent opponent right now at all. As someone said earlier in the topic, she was caught off guard that time. They've known each other for a while (we already know she's not cold, she revived Emiya with her pendant when he should've been killed for witnessing the Grail War), Rin already saved her from being killed by Saber and she doesn't exactly see him as competent, so it doesn't seem all that illogical for her to at least get him briefed on the situation.

Yeah I understand that now, but if I was Rin, I wouldn't take a chance on letting the underdog get stronger else it might bite you in the butt somehwere in the future. As I said before, that much power on the line makes DragoonKain very competitive.

Originally Posted by Mr.Guy

You also need to take into account that Tohsaka saved Emiya once. A Master without a Servant can still be considered a target for the other Masters. If she wanted Shirou alive, she would need him to know the rules of the war so that he could use Saber properly should Lancer come back.

Sure it's all fine and dandy helping a friend, but helping a friend that you'll most likely kill later anyway? Might as well be kind and have my friend die at my hands rather than anyone else's.

And that's not even taking account the case if the friend becomes more powerful later on and it's him/her who kills you instead.

[F!reStr!fe]

All in all dragoon that is correct but also.. The winner of the Holy Grail would have to some how satisfy both servants. Because most of the warriors became heroic spirits to have some sort of want from the power of the Holy Grail.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Yeah I understand that now, but if I was Rin, I wouldn't take a chance on letting the underdog get stronger else it might bite you in the butt somehwere in the future. As I said before, that much power on the line makes DragoonKain very competitive.


Sure it's all fine and dandy helping a friend, but helping a friend that you'll most likely kill later anyway? Might as well be kind and have my friend die at my hands rather than anyone else's.

And that's not even taking account the case if the friend becomes more powerful later on and it's him/her who kills you instead.

Well Rin saved Emiya even though he was marked for death for witnessing thier fight, she was going to let whoever was attacked by Lancer die but then saw it was Shirou and decided to save him. And even she told him that you dont have to kill another master, only the servants so its not set in stone that she would HAVE to kill him in the future, just defeat his servant. Also the fact that she went out of her way to save Emiya could mean that she either likes him or theres some other factor in play that we dont know about yet.

[ayyo]

Spoiler for ep3 spoiler:

For anyone interested in the history of Cú chulainn, the identity of Lancer :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn
Remember the identity of the hero not only tells their abilities and history but their weakness and ultimate death

Really hope Ilya gets a good role besides whats shes doing now, after all, she is Soujou Shirogane's seriyuu.

Am I the only one who knew the stuff said in 2nd half, not know this 'George', and still didn't find it boring? Sure it didn't keep me at the edge of my seat, but it's not like this is the first time you have heard a dialogue that is more then 2 minutes long, or maybe it is, *shrug*. Shiro has to at some point know the rules, same as the viewers, and they already did some thru Rin and Archer.

[F!reStr!fe]

After watching the subs I have to say the episode was fairly good. The explanation was quite excellent as it fills in more about the Holy Grail war. Also the Fight scene like ive said was Excellent dodging Saber and Lancers attacks was really illustrated well and even the sounds were perfect.

[monster]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

He also mentioned that his servant was defeated, so if you were to believe him then he probly got defeated earily on and had his dad hide him, or he was running away throughout all the fighting but got caught somewhere.

I thought he lost his servant as a result of touching the grail because he needed a servant to acquire the grail in the first place. But it still doesn't make any sense how he could've acquired the grail when there were servant(s) still left.