(CR) Kawaii dake ja Nai Shikimori-san (Shikimori's Not Just a Cutie)

[Anh_Minh]

Meh. 30 or 40 years ago, it might have said something interesting about gender roles and expectations. But now? It just makes the whole thing look sexist.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Meh. 30 or 40 years ago, it might have said something interesting about gender roles and expectations. But now? It just makes the whole thing look sexist.

I guess if Izumi was self-conscious about how awesome Shikimori is, but I don't think he is. And I don't think the show is penalizing him for not being a tough guy.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Meh. 30 or 40 years ago, it might have said something interesting about gender roles and expectations. But now? It just makes the whole thing look sexist.

In a way, you could say the show is making fun of females, because Shikimori being manly is the gimmick of the show, but for Shikimori to be manly, the man has to be super-girly.
Probably not the show's intention, but I'd say it looks more like that than praising women

[Guardian Enzo]

My general experience is that anime which demean one gender explicitly almost always demean the other in the process in a sort of collateral damage. Exceptions are very rare.

I’m certainly not ready to say that about Shikimori-san yet. To me this seemed less demeaning to either lead than just sort of uninteresting. The OP and ED suggest the series is going to go deeper with the relationship so I’ll hold out hope that happens.

[Tenzen12]

MC is efeminate, sure, but it's not like there is anything wrong with that. He's cinnamon roll.

[Anh_Minh]

The problem isn't the characters. The problem is that the show itself presents the "female superhero with male damsel in perennial distress" dynamic as something special. As if that, just by itself, is somehow interesting. So like I said, long ago it might have been subversive, but now it's practically reactionary. Imagine a story titled "Wouldn't it be neat if women could vote?". It gives me the same kind of feeling.

[Marcus H.]

As for me, it's fine in the same way a CGDCT anime doesn't have to one-up its peers in the story development. As long as the fluff is delivered, I won't complain too much.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The problem isn't the characters. The problem is that the show itself presents the "female superhero with male damsel in perennial distress" dynamic as something special. As if that, just by itself, is somehow interesting. So like I said, long ago it might have been subversive, but now it's practically reactionary. Imagine a story titled "Wouldn't it be neat if women could vote?". It gives me the same kind of feeling.

As you said, there is nothing subversive about it. There is no subversion and there is no "message". It's just fluffy story about cinnamon roll guy and his cool girlfriend. Given state of western entertainment I can understand why would you or other people be overly sensitive about this kind of stuff, but not under every bed is boogeyman.

[magnuskn]

Well, I don't know if the show can carry off twelve episodes of just that concept. I hope it goes a bit deeper than just that.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The problem isn't the characters. The problem is that the show itself presents the "female superhero with male damsel in perennial distress" dynamic as something special. As if that, just by itself, is somehow interesting. So like I said, long ago it might have been subversive, but now it's practically reactionary. Imagine a story titled "Wouldn't it be neat if women could vote?". It gives me the same kind of feeling.

I don't think it's trying to present it as special so much as just the kind of dynamic the two leads have, where the value they find in each other is more important than, say, specific gender roles...along with Izumi needing his girlfriend to basically survive .

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The problem isn't the characters. The problem is that the show itself presents the "female superhero with male damsel in perennial distress" dynamic as something special. As if that, just by itself, is somehow interesting. So like I said, long ago it might have been subversive, but now it's practically reactionary. Imagine a story titled "Wouldn't it be neat if women could vote?". It gives me the same kind of feeling.

When a show presents something as special, the characters within the show will remark on it. I don't know about you but I have seen no such reactions to the main couple's dynamic. As for whether it is interesting is for the audience to decide and I for one think role reversal has untapped potential in this medium.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by bakato

When a show presents something as special, the characters within the show will remark on it. I don't know about you but I have seen no such reactions to the main couple's dynamic.

To me, it felt like not a scene went by without some character or other (often the male MC himself) saying or thinking there's something... maybe "wrong" isn't the word, but it's in the neighborhood, about the FMC being more athletic and self-assured than the MMC. Sometimes quite explicitly.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

To me, it felt like not a scene went by without some character or other (often the male MC himself) saying or thinking there's something... maybe "wrong" isn't the word, but it's in the neighborhood, about the FMC being more athletic and self-assured than the MMC. Sometimes quite explicitly.

But she is. Because that's kinda the definition of this dynamic.

Also, plenty of scenes went by. The entire classroom scene for starters. Or basically the entire episode.

[Guardian Enzo]

All this arguing may become moot for a good while unless Doga Kobo reopens soon. Haven't heard anything about that happening.

[MAX_COLA_POWER!]

The show will definitely have some hiccups for sure since it's impossible to please everyone, but I don't think it'll be gender roles. The manga's been doing fine and to the best of my knowledge I haven't seen one complaint about said topic. The series has a nice amount of fluff, Shikimori's ojou-sama speech style is a surprise, but Hachimitsu is my favorite so far, the deadpan expression gave me a good chuckle.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by bakato

But she is. Because that's kinda the definition of this dynamic.

I'm obviously not denying that she's more athletic. I'm criticizing the characters' reaction to that fact, including the MMC's. And the presentation of those reactions.

Also, plenty of scenes went by. The entire classroom scene for starters. Or basically the entire episode.

The entire episode? Maybe we haven't looked at the same anime.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm obviously not denying that she's more athletic. I'm criticizing the characters' reaction to that fact, including the MMC's. And the presentation of those reactions.


The entire episode? Maybe we haven't looked at the same anime.

Their reactions have been nothing more than remarking how cute, cool, and athletic she is, the presentation of which is no different than what you'd find in typical romcoms. These comments you speak of are directed at Shikimori as an individual. They are not comments on her dynamic with Izumi. No one ever said she was "more" cute, "more" cool, or "more" athletic than Izumi because they were not comparisons. And for reference, when you score a perfect game in bowling, you're more athletic than everyone in the room, not just your boyfriend.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by bakato

Their reactions have been nothing more than remarking how cute, cool, and athletic she is, the presentation of which is no different than what you'd find in typical romcoms. These comments you speak of are directed at Shikimori as an individual. They are not comments on her dynamic with Izumi. No one ever said she was "more" cute, "more" cool, or "more" athletic than Izumi because they were not comparisons. And for reference, when you score a perfect game in bowling, you're more athletic than everyone in the room, not just your boyfriend.

Her boyfriend said, to her face, she wasn't cute. And he only thought she was cool.

And her girl friends advised her to not be so visibly athletic so as not to outshine her bf.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Her boyfriend said, to her face, she wasn't cute. And he only thought she was cool.

And her girl friends advised her to not be so visibly athletic so as not to outshine her bf.

Which is not a comment on their dynamic. Like I just said it is a comment directed at her as an individual.

Her friends advised her to perform poorly to show off her cuteness to her boyfriend, which is something that could happen in any romcom. And considering Izumi's terrible luck and physical coordination, not outshining him just isn't in the cards. And what does this have to do with anything?

[Frontier]

Can Izumi get a note giving him a pass from Sports Day? Because unless it's a co-ed game where Shikimori gets to play with him, letting him participate just seems like a recipe for disaster .

Shikimori with the side-ponytail! She wears it very well .

Well, Izumi and Shikimori can't be there for each others' games for physical support because the times overlap, but they can give emotional support! I love how Izumi does it through handholding and Shikimori tries to do it for sheer force of will .

Unsurprisingly Izumi gets taken out during the game. Not only is he a bad luck magnet, but he's too klutzy for his own good. Not even just that, but apparently he's scarred all across his body and a truck once ran into his house. Despite how cutesy and comedic he is, Izumi's been through some serious stuff

But when you get taken care of by a girl like Shikimori who will even tease you about getting into the nurses bed with you...it tends to make the pain go away. And you gotta love how Shikimori is such a chad but in private she's a blushing mess over what she said .

Hachimitsu is such a mood. I love her .

Time for the volleyball match! And it seems like the cool-headed volleyball ace Kamiya has singled Shikimori out for some reason? Judging by the tense scene of them in the Opening, I'm guessing that'll come to a head soon .

Izumi's team (unsurprisingly) lost, but that lets Izumi free to see Shikimori's game and root for her, which is enough to turn thing around and unlock Shikimori's final form...back ponytail Shikimori! And then when she draws her bangs back and everyone in the room collectively realizes who the hottest person in that gym is .

Shikimori has now become the school idol and has a bunch of fangirls swarming all over her who want a piece, and Hachimitsu and Neko have basically turned into her managers. Gotta love friends who see your popularity and make it a marketable moment .

The only downside of Shikimori's newfound popularity is that she can't be around Izumi as much as she would like (and she's not happy that her fangirls find him cute), but luckily Inuzuka is a real bro who will takeover Izumi protection duty at his own expense...but that just makes Shikimori mad because she wants that to be her .

But in the end, no matter how popular Shikimori is, there's no one she would rather walk home from school with than Izumi, and there's no one Izumi would rather be with than Shikimori .

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Her boyfriend said, to her face, she wasn't cute. And he only thought she was cool.

And her girl friends advised her to not be so visibly athletic so as not to outshine her bf.

But in the end she didn't have to be or pretend to not be herself for him, which was the point.

She still wants to be seen as cute though...