Log Horizon - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Tenzen12]

Yeah, this kind of indirect benefit might be possible, I will give it to you (as well that we don't know how PofL lived before). And pretty much your whole argumentation is overaly correct.

My original point was that landers doesn NEED dependant on adventurers (which is also pretty exactly what Shiro noted on round table conference) and to be completely precise I adressed this post, which is nothing but speculation:

Originally Posted by LystAP

Remember who's the immortal "monsters" here; the only reason why the Landers are not outright aggressive towards the adventurers that they need them to protect the People of the Land from the other monsters.

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Yeah, this kind of indirect benefit might be possible, I will give it to you (as well that we don't know how PofL lived before). And pretty much your whole argumentation is overaly correct.

My original point was that landers doesn NEED dependant on adventurers (which is also pretty exactly what Shiro noted on round table conference) and to be completely precise I adressed this post, which is nothing but speculation:

Yeah, Shiroe did say that. Though the way I interpret it, the dependance is more about daily life, ie, the Adventures will be crippled in day to day life without Landers(since Shiroe mentioned about the Landers who is managing the bank iirc) Then again, that is just Shiroe's assumption. I guess my point is, based on anime, we still do not know whether what Shiroe said is true or not. It can go either way really.

I agree though that the thing about Landers needing adventurers is just speculation.In fact, all our discussion right now are just speculation and assumption

[Wandering_Youth]

A great episode this was as it reveals more about the Elder Tale world and that's what I want. The training camp should also prove to be equally entertaining.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by darksassin

Yeah, Shiroe did say that. Though the way I interpret it, the dependance is more about daily life, ie, the Adventures will be crippled in day to day life without Landers(since Shiroe mentioned about the Landers who is managing the bank iirc) Then again, that is just Shiroe's assumption. I guess my point is, based on anime, we still do not know whether what Shiroe said is true or not. It can go either way really.

I agree though that the thing about Landers needing adventurers is just speculation.In fact, all our discussion right now are just speculation and assumption

The landers didn't need adventurers. Look at the episode where shiroe and co. are staying for the night at the landers village due to the storm.

you can clearly see that the landers are living the normal life. they can produce goods for food and can work. they are basically producers.

While the adventurers are the consumers. coming from the modern world. a world where everything is easy with the use of modern technology and has a different way of living.

strictly speaking. landers may only need the assistance of adventurers if they went out of their city or village. like the escort quest which was mention before.

adventurers need the landers because the landers are still the one who control the local building or rather they are the workers in it. like the bank for example or the farmers.

landers can produce goods from raw material but the raw materials are produced mostly by landers.

[RobotCat]

So I'm guessing Eastal is Elder Tale's version of High Sec?

[darksassin]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

The landers didn't need adventurers. Look at the episode where shiroe and co. are staying for the night at the landers village due to the storm.

you can clearly see that the landers are living the normal life. they can produce goods for food and can work. they are basically producers.

While the adventurers are the consumers. coming from the modern world. a world where everything is easy with the use of modern technology and has a different way of living.

strictly speaking. landers may only need the assistance of adventurers if they went out of their city or village. like the escort quest which was mention before.

adventurers need the landers because the landers are still the one who control the local building or rather they are the workers in it. like the bank for example or the farmers.

landers can produce goods from raw material but the raw materials are produced mostly by landers.

Isnt that what I was implying? That Adventurer would be crippled without Landers?

The anime doesnt tell if the Landers need Adventurers or not. All that are shown just imply that The Landers doesnt need Adventurers as much as Adventurers need them.The Landers are self sufficient and can continue day to day life without Adventurers. But it seems that the Landers would benefit greatly from interacting with Adventurers(well, most of them. The Landers from Susukino would probably prefer to stay away from Adventurers) since Adventurers buy stuff from them, meaning the Landers get money from Adventurers.

Still, the anime still doesnt show if Landers need adventurers for things other than economics..We dont know if Landers need Adventurers in term of security or not. It can go either way really. As Shiroe said it, the Adventurers and Landers are lacking in knowledge of each other

landers can produce goods from raw material but the raw materials are produced mostly by landers.

Umm what do you want to say here?

[Keroko]

I think he means "adventurers can produce goods from raw materials but the raw materials are produced mostly by landers."

But the very fact that adventurers exist at all proves they are needed to some degree. After all, if they're not needed, why do they even exist? You don't just create a worldwide force of semi-immortal warriors alongside a system that keeps them immortal and ready to do their thing just for the lulz.

[Kafriel]

Won't be long before the crafters make rifles and tanks, sell the tech to the landers for...well, land and THEN start war/terrorism!!!!!!! Well, maybe not, but there is potential to make assimilate the real world into Elder Tales, with the game's mechanics being the only thing they can't change.

In any case, both parties are being very cautious of one another, but even if the round table reaches an agreement with Eastal, there are many more kingdoms out there...

[aohige]

Originally Posted by darksassin

The anime doesnt tell if the Landers need Adventurers or not. All that are shown just imply that The Landers doesnt need Adventurers as much as Adventurers need them.The Landers are self sufficient and can continue day to day life without Adventurers. But it seems that the Landers would benefit greatly from interacting with Adventurers(well, most of them. The Landers from Susukino would probably prefer to stay away from Adventurers) since Adventurers buy stuff from them, meaning the Landers get money from Adventurers.

Uhm, I'm not sure what your point is, because you just described exactly why "Landers don't need Adventurers".
Inconvenienced is not = "need"

[Sheba]

Flying boats, motherfuckers. Yes, I am a nerd and I would love to believe that most of the players trapped in Theldesia are also nerds at heart who would see this new world as an opportunity to play up some nerd fantasies. So yeah, flying boats and moving castles.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I think he means "adventurers can produce goods from raw materials but the raw materials are produced mostly by landers."

But the very fact that adventurers exist at all proves they are needed to some degree. After all, if they're not needed, why do they even exist? You don't just create a worldwide force of semi-immortal warriors alongside a system that keeps them immortal and ready to do their thing just for the lulz.

You're assuming real world logic. This was a game. It had no reason to conform to your expectations of a balanced society, because it existed as something for people to have fun in. It is only now, that the adventurers are in it and it is a real world that they are discovering that the society is in danger of being inbalanced, and not in their favor.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Keroko

But the very fact that adventurers exist at all proves they are needed to some degree. After all, if they're not needed, why do they even exist? You don't just create a worldwide force of semi-immortal warriors alongside a system that keeps them immortal and ready to do their thing just for the lulz.

There is difference between world of Elder Tale and Game. Game was created by humans and for humans. So yes, You do create semi-immortal warriors for "lulz"

World itself in other hand is no particulary different from our own. People work, live and have childrens, with players as allien element inserted due some weird rennossance thingy or whatever it is.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by darksassin

Isnt that what I was implying? That Adventurer would be crippled without Landers?

i would say more inconvient then cripple. Adventures can produce raw material but since there are more landers it would be easier for landers to produce raw materials at greater quanities.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i would say more inconvient then cripple. Adventures can produce raw material but since there are more landers it would be easier for landers to produce raw materials at greater quanities.

Yes, only reasons Adventurers don't set up farms, is because landers already do that, leaving adventurers free to do other things they are more interested in.

Ok, anyone taking bets on what happens to the npc girl with a doll?
I bet she either dies in hands of monsters (to give "growth" to one of the adventurers), or gets saved from death by an adventurer (bringing adventurers and landers closer, or just to give us a heartwarming moment).

[Libros]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Yes, only reasons Adventurers don't set up farms, is because landers already do that, leaving adventurers free to do other things they are more interested in.

Ok, anyone taking bets on what happens to the npc girl with a doll?
I bet she either dies in hands of monsters (to give "growth" to one of the adventurers), or gets saved from death by an adventurer (bringing adventurers and landers closer, or just to give us a heartwarming moment).

Can't she just be left alone? Seeing anything bad happen to her would break my heart.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by Libros

Can't she just be left alone? Seeing anything bad happen to her would break my heart.

I'm all for having her live her life quietly in happiness until she passes away out of old age, in her sleep, surrounded by great grandchildren.
I suspect that the producer is not going to go with that plan though.

[Ickarium]

My guess is an empathy doll shot, honestly.

I haven't read the novels (waiting for the translator to finish LN1 even if the anime is past it), but they seem slightly more obvious in places (not that this is bad, as I hear the author does it well). If she is going to die, the novel probably shows it all. The anime will give a burning building or something, and the doll slowly burning to ashes as the camera lingers upon it.

Something like that.

[Tenzen12]

Count me in old age and grand childs team.

[GundamFan]

Originally Posted by J4n1

Yes, only reasons Adventurers don't set up farms, is because landers already do that, leaving adventurers free to do other things they are more interested in.

True even the banks duties could really be taken over by ones guild at this point if it became necessary they can restrict access to rooms as needed so it would possible to setup a storeroom where only a couple your members who would be acting as bankers had access. The whole being able to get your stuff in any town isn't much of a feature due to there limited means of travel.

Ok, anyone taking bets on what happens to the npc girl with a doll?
I bet she either dies in hands of monsters (to give "growth" to one of the adventurers), or gets saved from death by an adventurer (bringing adventurers and landers closer, or just to give us a heartwarming moment).

My guess is something going to happen to her and Log Horizon B team that we've seen in the opening credits will be born.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

You're assuming real world logic. This was a game. It had no reason to conform to your expectations of a balanced society, because it existed as something for people to have fun in. It is only now, that the adventurers are in it and it is a real world that they are discovering that the society is in danger of being inbalanced, and not in their favor.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

There is difference between world of Elder Tale and Game. Game was created by humans and for humans. So yes, You do create semi-immortal warriors for "lulz"

World itself in other hand is no particulary different from our own. People work, live and have childrens, with players as allien element inserted due some weird rennossance thingy or whatever it is.

I should note at this point that I subscribe to the "Elder Tale is a parallel world the players got transported to, not the game world that inexplicably became real" theory. The later is easier to explain, as the world of Elder Tale has magic to allow the apocalypse to happen, whereas a game becoming real is a lot harder to explain.