Proposal: Disable the [font] tag

[Solace]

no matter if I agree/disagree like it or not I should be able to fukin' read it! with out resorting to 3rd party measures

I have no problem reading any of the examples presented so far. But I've already said my opinion on the matter. I'll add to it I guess.

This is the type of sentence that is hard to read.

This is the type of sentence that is hard to read.

This is the type of sentence that is hard to read.

I'm more against the colors than I am the fonts. I find the fonts presented to be perfectly legible, but the colors hurt the eyes sometimes. However, I'd hate to see the colors or the fonts disabled across the board, they do serve some purpose.

I'm still against more rules/bannable offenses. You'd be surprised at what a nicely phrased request can do. Perhaps instead of suggesting that we add more rules, ask the moderators to keep an eye out for difficult to read posts when they are visiting and see if they would be willing to kindly ask the person to change their formatting to something more legible? You could aid in this by reporting posts you find difficult to read because of colors/text choice/formatting so that moderators could zero in on problem cases quicker.

I'm not saying that yours or TheFluff's point isn't valid. All I'm suggesting is that before we start implementing rules, maybe we can curtail the behavior with something a little more indirect. If it continues to be a problem, *then* put in some rules.

[LiberLibri]

Originally Posted by Cats

Like I said earlier "you all miss TheFluff's point", it's not (as you put it:) "it should be banned for everyone because I hate it", even though we* do hate it the problem here is this font art (as you called it) is little more then a form of spam. It serves no purpose and degrades the medium of comunication. It's like l33t speak, the posters try to act cool instead of actually doing anything constructive with it.

(emphasis added)

Similarly you could assert anime is just an innocent hobby which brings nothing constructive. ISPs are angry with anime viewers consuming vast range of network resources for the silly, nonsense and childish pastime.

Probably it is the point that makes your argument sounds arbitrary. You don't tolerate others enjoying something you don't understand. They use it because it serves certain value, though it may be fun only for a moment. Why can't you just pass them (by technical or mental means) and try to co-exist?

[Zu Ra]

There is an ignore user function which could be utilized here .

Inferacing people banning people for font is going a bit too far . Also most people who use obnoxious font and colors, most of the times have no idea that it doesn't appeal to some . The civil approach would be to inform via pm then if they persist put them on ignore .

And the whole thing is subjective . I would like to inferact ban a lot of people for lot of things . But when they do abide by forums rules, I have no business whatsoever.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Cats

I think you all miss TheFluff's point! This is not about anyone liking or disliking or anything like that.

Originally Posted by TheFluff

The ONLY users of the font tag are the incredibly obnoxious individuals who absolutely cannot resist writing all of their posts in bold Comic Sans MS with some annoying color like blue or red. The only thing this results in is making the forum harder and more annoying to read (not that said individuals have anything useful to say anyway, but we could at least try to pretend that there's serious discussion going on).

I don't think I missed any point(s). It's simply that TheFluff doesn't like Comic Sans MS and we disagree on the fact whether or not it's annoying to read or not.

Originally Posted by Solace

Everything.

This is exactly what I wanted to say, only I'm specifically against doing anything whatsoever about this topic. To me, this is just outright silly, like taking away the quote or bold functions.

[Kakashi]

Perhaps removing the unreadable and insanely bright colors would be viable. But the hoi polloi don't seem to give a damn. I think the purpose of color and such is to distinguish the first post of a thread from the rest, usually in an episode discussion, thus drawing attention to rules of conduct, spoiler notices and so on. Other than that the option clearly receives scarce usage, so it's understandable if the mods don't bother. Overall though, I'm with Solace on this one.

Color helps me learn!

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Solace

However, I'd hate to see the colors or the fonts disabled across the board, they do serve some purpose.

As I mentioned in the op, using alternative colors might occasionally have legitimate uses. Using alternative fonts does not have a legitimate use. If another font than the one the vast majority of us use is more readable or nicer to look at, why is it not the default? Letting people use a different font does not have any inherent value and restricting their choice isn't restricting their freedom of expression.

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I don't think I missed any point(s). It's simply that TheFluff doesn't like Comic Sans MS and we disagree on the fact whether or not it's annoying to read or not.

This proves that you did indeed miss the point completely.

The point is not that I don't like a particular font. The point is not that I like readable text. The point is not that I hate obnoxious 13-year-olds without an ounce of typographic good taste that absolutely cannot resist using a "flashy" font because it makes their posts stand out more. All of these are true, but it's not the point. The point is, as Cats so eloquently put it:

"[T]his font art (as you called it) is little more than a form of spam. It serves no purpose and degrades the medium of communication. It's like l33t speak, the posters try to act cool instead of actually doing anything constructive with it."

(Emphasis mine.)

[KholdStare]

Sorry, but since the point is not in the first post in the thread (or else you would've quoted yourself), it's a little bit misleading.

It's still a matter of opinion. To me, it does serve a purpose, to be artistic and give an identity to yourself. I do not think that typing in an entirely readable font and color is in any way degrading the medium of communication. If that's the case, then I'll also argue that avatars, signatures, smiley faces, links being underlined and blue, and the reputation boxes degrade the medium of communication.

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

The only thing this results in is making the forum harder and more annoying to read (not that said individuals have anything useful to say anyway

Might as well just use the ignore button. Besides, at least you know right away which posts to not bother reading.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by TheFluff

As I mentioned in the op, using alternative colors might occasionally have legitimate uses. Using alternative fonts does not have a legitimate use. If another font than the one the vast majority of us use is more readable or nicer to look at, why is it not the default? Letting people use a different font does not have any inherent value and restricting their choice isn't restricting their freedom of expression.

There was a poll a while back about which board template the average AnimeSuki forum goer used most. The "winner", by a large margin, was the standard tan color. Most of the reasons given were generally in the line of "I didn't know you could change the colors" or "I got used to it and the other options look weird to me".

Unscientific, I know, but to me the fonts are in the same vein. If Comic Sans were the default text, most people would just use that and call it good. They don't care, they just want to post. Would using a different font make reading better or worse? Personally, I don't think so. I do think that certain fonts, in combination with certain colors, are pretty bad. But just fonts? None of the examples presented so far are unreadable. I don't even find them "difficult to decipher".

However, I do agree with you that for these posters it is most likely *not* a matter of legibility, it is about expression. So yes, I do think your point is valid. I'm just opposed to taking the measures of adding more rules to the board.

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Also most people who use obnoxious font and colors, most of the times have no idea that it doesn't appeal to some

This is often the case. If a moderator asked them to use the standard font/colors because of complaints, they probably would comply. I would hope it was because the complaints were focused on a very garish color/font combination though.

/shrug

[KiNA]

The solution is simple as several others have stated, use the ignore list. If you annoyed so much to how peoples post something I bet you 99% of the time you find their posts are useless to you anyway. So why bother the mod for your enjoyment by asking the mods to ban others enjoyment?

[SeijiSensei]

I'll just mention in passing that, as one of the ten percent of males who are color-blind, some posts are nearly impossible for me to read without a lot of effort. I doubt posters who use colors ever consider that it might make their thoughts unreadable for a non-trivial portion of the population.

I'm only slightly color-blind, too, but I can't read two of the three lines in Solace's post above.

I'm not in favor of banning fonts or colors, just making an observation about why using colors is a bad idea. AS members aren't the worst offenders in my mind, either. That award goes to web designers who demonstrate no clue about color-blindness.

If you want to use a color, select a shade of blue. Nearly everyone can read that. Once the color contains some red or green, people like me will start to have problems. (There are a very small number of people with blue/yellow color blindness, but the much more common problem is red/green discrimination like I have.)

[KiNA]

^ I'm not color blind but I cant read any of those 3 lines either. Depending on my mood, I asked/flamed the guy that do that to change the color, or he goes to my ignore list, or he sees red in his rep box.

[anime_layer]

For me it's not only about legibility or font-quality. People have different tastes and if they happen to like Comic Sans then so be it.

What I want is consistent design. There is already a forum theme that has taken care of this. The colors, the font, the font sizes, font colors etc have been fine-tuned to result in a well-rounded and pleasing design. And there's not only the aesthetic part to it, there's also much usability. The ability to quickly skim through threads is greatly eased by an uniform design of all posts where individual posts and their content is easily located.

There are people who like to user every color imaginable in their website design and produce results like these:
http://www.5safepoints.com/
http://www.dokimos.org/ajff/
http://ronoslund.com/

It's not that I want to forbid people to express themselves. If they want to create a page like that then that's perfectly fine.

It's that if every user plays this game and uses custom fonts and colors (which could be pleasing by themselves), the forum's design just falls apart and what's left is an aesthetic jumble and a usability nightmare.

I treasure a consistent overall design much more than the user's wish to express himself through fonts and colors. There's already much space for that through signatures and avatars - which can be turned off without adverse effect on the post's actual content. Telling people to just ignore those users simply undermines the whole point of a forum.

Originally Posted by Solace

I'm just opposed to taking the measures of adding more rules to the board.

There's no need to add a new rule. Just disable the font vB-code and bam!, people just can't use it and there's no administrative overhead. As an added bonus, all old posts are purged of font-tags.

[HigurashiRika_04621]

I've been using centered Verdana size 1 since I joined, only because I like small fonts, and only one person has said something which didn't sound all too serious anyways. I find the default font boring. >>"

I agree with those who say that bright colors should not be allowed. Bright colors hurt. (Especially now because I'm sick and I have a huge headache. @.@) The third post in this thread made me laugh tho, even though I don't agree with it.

Originally Posted by LiberLibri

I believe "it should be banned for everyone because I hate it"-type of speeches cannot be justified in a democratic society.

I agree with this. True, this isn't a democracy, but why should all of us have to suffer (in a sense) for a couple people?

Originally Posted by TheFluff

The point is not that I don't like a particular font. The point is not that I like readable text. The point is not that I hate obnoxious 13-year-olds without an ounce of typographic good taste that absolutely cannot resist using a "flashy" font because it makes their posts stand out more.

I'm 14, even when I was 13 I used this same font. >>"

Personally, I don't care about what font or color people use. I have pretty good eyesight, so I can read pretty much everything, even if it is fluorescent pink. I'm not going to start saying those colors should be banned, I'm just saying it would be better if people would stop using bright colors. I don't see the problem with, say, red, or green.

[WanderingKnight]

If we're not taking fonts out, at least let's take Comic Sans out.

For the love of all that's sacred, PLEASE.

Going a step further, I would vote for disabling all Serif fonts, since they make a much worse impression when compared to the regular Sans Serif font (I hate Serif fonts).

(I should also point out the need to eliminate any color other than red, green or blue, which are among the most legible ones, and I really don't think you'll ever need any more than three colors in any given post).

PS: Yeah, I know it's all pretty subjective, but I loathe customized post styling, and I've noticed an increment in the amount of custom styled posts lately. Mad props to Fluff for pointing this out.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I'm only slightly color-blind, too, but I can't read two of the three lines in Solace's post above

Originally Posted by KiNA

^ I'm not color blind but I cant read any of those 3 lines either.

The colors are intentional. Most people, even with decent eye sight, have difficulty picking those colors out of a lighter colored background.

For the record, it says "This is the type of sentence that is hard to read."

Originally Posted by anime_layer

There's no need to add a new rule. Just disable the font vB-code and bam!, people just can't use it and there's no administrative overhead. As an added bonus, all old posts are purged of font-tags.

Right, but where does the line get drawn? This guy uses indent to make all of his posts different, lets remove that. This guy uses tiny letters, lets remove that. This guy tabs every other line, lets stop that.

I mean look at the latest few threads here - two deal with wanting to shut off unwanted parts of the board because they are uncomfortable with browsing AS in certain places, and this thread wants to shut off parts of the board because they personally find it annoying.

People are always going to find something to complain about, even in grey blob world. That's why I think instead of disabling every feature on this board, just have the moderators kindly ask the font/color "abusers" to change the text to something actually readable.

While everyone is justified in their causes, look at this from the other perspective - the people complaining are in a small minority, the people supporting are in a small minority, and the thousands of other people who post on these forums could give two spits about what we think.

If nothing else, there are no rules that restrict how fonts and colors are used in a post. There are also no rules that state that you must read those posts either. If we remove the ability for people to use fonts and colors in their posts, we've established a rule that customized text/color style is not tolerated. If we grant an option for people to ignore text/color then why not just go all the way and offer a "AnimeSuki Lite" version of the forums?

I hate to pit extremes here but it's no different than banning people like was previously suggested. And even still, if there's a Lite version, I bet someone will find a post(er) they'll skip over because the person feels the need to distinguish themselves in some way.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Solace

Right, but where does the line get drawn? This guy uses indent to make all of his posts different, lets remove that. This guy uses tiny letters, lets remove that. This guy tabs every other line, lets stop that.

It's been mentioned several times already but I'll rephrase it just for you. The line should be drawn at the border of practicality. If a font/color etc isnt useful for anything, what point is there in having it. If there are indeed some people that have a good/practical use for it (other then epenis erection) then they can come to this section and drop a request with motives for it to be put back. Like Wk I also think we don't need all the fonts or the colors (his suggestion are actually quite good if not ideal). I believe the color pallet can default to simply a dropdown (but the way Vb works font hexadecimal values are acceptable), I know the option to determine what fonts are available to be used by users is available in Board Options option (Admin CP); so it's not so hard to do.

Nobody's saying remove everything and you don't have to worry about unnecessary action. Bold text, italics text and Underlined text (as well as the variants) have a purpose: emphasis. Lists are used for listing (obviously) and indents for a sort of inside-notes. The alignment options are good in some contexts (footnotes etc or just emphasis; a centered title is more eye-catching) Of course we use the size options for headers, sub-headers etc and the size=1 option is used for a sort of side-notes and other things. We can use color for a strong emphasis of certain words (when it's called for), but we don't need more then red, blue and green (normal and dark) and maybe white. Fonts... we don't need any of them really. One font is good enough, browsers today actually offer options to change the default type face size etc so if nobody likes the current font they are by all means free to edit their options.

Another thing. Can you stop playing God (e.g. omnicient, overseer and omnibenevolence). You are not neutral by defending one side and you are not objective by calling others subjective. If you must rant or play devil's advocate by all means take their camp (nobody's asking you to use formatted posts to be on their side) and lets hear some actual arguments endorsed by facts and less of the subjective "they might", "there might be" or other such relative terms.

"We might" have too many rules if we add this, but looking at the current rules and thinking of how more they would be if I add to them 2-3 random examples I can't see them becoming anything unreadable. On the other hand if we shy away from adding rules (writen or otherwise) to stomp out the problems what exactly are we solving? "Some people might" not like it, but we're on what's apropriatly called a public forum and in conformance with other rules we post in a way acceptable by everyone; this activity of over glorifying ones post is obviously for the good for the individual not the comunity. If the options can't be used for the good of the comunity then there's no reason to have them.

Originally Posted by LiberLibri

(emphasis added)

Similarly you could assert anime is just an innocent hobby which brings nothing constructive. ISPs are angry with anime viewers consuming vast range of network resources for the silly, nonsense and childish pastime.

Probably it is the point that makes your argument sounds arbitrary. You don't tolerate others enjoying something you don't understand. They use it because it serves certain value, though it may be fun only for a moment. Why can't you just pass them (by technical or mental means) and try to co-exist?

No arbitrary is what you're doing. Going at how 'forest fire is bad' so a 'fire' is bad as well, and similar analogies. If I really wanted to "[sound] arbitrary" I would have thrown that "democratic society" comment of yours back at you with questions on 'Which democratic society allows people to masturbate in the street?' or 'Where in the world is this democratic society where people can stab your eyes out?', since as far as I know democracy stands for the ideal of 'the better of all' (which is not to be confused with the 'better of the individual'). /end imitation & sarcasm

My paragraph above is what's called a rant. I'll admit it, it's really stupid, but people really seem to like it nowadays, must be the way it builds up drama or tries to measure proof in blood presure. Providing an anology with only an ambigous or abstract link to the subject/topic you're expressing your point of view on is pointless as proof since it really just depends on what anology you pick to prove or disprove a point ("forest fire" is not a anology, similarly "anime" has nothing in common with fonts and colors on text). Also being neutral or "democratic" (or what have you) is an illusion~! Yes, when you post you are automaticly out of the neutral zone (since the actually neutral people are the ones that keep quiet). Even if, say, you consider yourself partially-neutral try not to consider yourself automaticly right, your presumably 'pure' and 'kind' thoughts may well be in the broader scheme of things as merciful as the bubonic plague. That's all, I apologise for the off-topicness.

[LiberLibri]

Some (young) people express their taste, belief or sense of values in their clothings, hairstyle or corporal gesture. In the Internet, they can hardly rely on such "visual" adorners, so they decorate themselves with font-arts in order to show off the cool self. You don't have to join the game, nor to explain the reason why you do not enjoy it. Just ignore them. You are provided with various and sufficient means to do so.

Originally Posted by Cats

("forest fire" is not a anology, similarly "anime" has nothing in common with fonts and colors on text)

Yes. I mean, the point is that, some people regard something as non-constructive (and even harmful), whereas others cherish it, and the former complain it be expelled. If it is feasible for them to coexist without sacrificing each interest, isn't it better way than to require patience to one side (whichever)?

Optical engineering has not developed masturbation-free glasses. Even when they are merchandised, it will cost much. If those hating to see other's behaviour like it are required to pay the burden and wear them whenever on street, it would be far unbalanced solution. By contrast, you need just a few clicks and keypresses to shut out the annoying colours and irritating typesettings from your view. Is it so difficult compromise for you?

Focus on the proportionate distribution of merits and costs. Ignore-list and userStyle are better options than to disable all fonts for everyone from the perspective of losing interests and necessary expenses.

Whether I lost neutrality or not and how my notion about mercy is are irrelevant to the validity of discussion. I won't touch the off-topic points.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Cats

It's been mentioned several times already but I'll rephrase it just for you. The line should be drawn at the border of practicality. If a font/color etc isnt useful for anything, what point is there in having it. If there are indeed some people that have a good/practical use for it (other then epenis erection) then they can come to this section and drop a request with motives for it to be put back.

Using different text and colors are certainly practical, they serve a purpose in allowing a post to stand out. It's not what you might consider the definition to be, as you phrase it as "epeen", but it's certainly practical to the users of the text/colors.

Some people just like it. Others feel it helps them stand out. Some do it for thematic reasons. Others do it because it's artistic. There are a multitude of reasons why people do it, and not all of them are useful (indeed, the very point of this topic is that certain font/color combinations are not useful).

You're asking for the removal of a feature that does get use. Brushing it off like there is now a universal consensus that such features are a waste is poor arguing.

So far the only good argument presented in this thread to limit fonts/text is not from Cats or TheFluff, it's from Sensei who argues that being colorblind potentially removes his ability to even see the post. That, is something I can support. Not opinions of "I don't like it, it's annoying".

Nobody's saying remove everything and you don't have to worry about unnecessary action. We can use color for a strong emphasis of certain words (when it's called for), but we don't need more then red, blue and green (normal and dark) and maybe white. Fonts... we don't need any of them really.

I should be more clear. I'm not worried about unnecessary rules exactly. I'm worried about arbitrary rules based on opinions. You're correct, we don't need the fonts or colors. But ad hoc "this can go, this can stay" doesn't sit well with me.

You find it unreadable and annoying. Others don't. And yet you want options removed so that you're happy, when others don't mind it and others embrace it.

One font is good enough, browsers today actually offer options to change the default type face size etc so if nobody likes the current font they are by all means free to edit their options.

So it's ok to ask them to change, but when it's suggested that you ignore it or change your options that's not good enough?

Another thing. Can you stop playing God (e.g. omniscient, overseer and omnibenevolence). You are not neutral by defending one side and you are not objective by calling others subjective. If you must rant or play devil's advocate by all means take their camp (nobody's asking you to use formatted posts to be on their side) and lets hear some actual arguments endorsed by facts and less of the subjective "they might", "there might be" or other such relative terms.

I thought it was pretty obvious that I wasn't neutral. What I see is an issue that isn't that important because there exist options to deal with it, either personally or by asking moderators to step in on cases that can't be handled personally.

I don't see this public outcry of "PLEASE CHANGE YOUR TEXT AND FONT IT'S TERRIBLE!". Even in the linked profiles I see no such thing, so I must assume any complaints (if any outside of this thread of course) are handled privately.

Even in this topic, it's just the same people posting as usual. And not unsurprisingly, we all have the usual opinions.

Playing God would assume I had some kind of omnipotent power. Sorry, I'm just an average forum poster. I have to put up with the same crap and gold that everyone else does.

"Some people might" not like it, but we're on what's appropriately called a public forum and in conformance with other rules we post in a way acceptable by everyone; this activity of over glorifying ones post is obviously for the good for the individual not the community. If the options can't be used for the good of the community then there's no reason to have them.

Actually, we're on a private forum. The administrators are kind enough to allow us access. Our ability to post here is a privilege, not a right, and can be taken away whenever the owners see fit.

Not saying they don't sway to some public pressure, but whatever they decide amounts to "suck it up or go somewhere else". There is no "good of the community" unless they decide it's "good".

We post in a way that's acceptable to almost everyone. Sorry, I hate 14 line run on sentences, poor English skills, leet speek, and other such "posting", but I tolerate it because these people aren't bad people (outside of the obvious trolls). I'm not about to go on a crusade to ban undesired posting habits simply because they conflict with my views of how things should be.

There is no "needs of the many" argument to be made here. Sorry.

One final thing. You don't need fonts or colors to make your post stand out in a very annoying way:

Spoiler for This is abuse of the system:

~I just watched a few of the Fall Series the other day.

Man, those shows

actually held promise!

I can't wait to see next weeks episodes!!!~

So again, crack down on abuse of color/font combinations. Leave the rest of it alone. Got a personal issue with it? Ignore the person or if you feel they might have something of interest to say, ask them to make it more legible.

[XenophunK]

Technically, I don't see a need for big text. Colors could be ok with parts of the forumbase but not stupid ones like fluro-yellow, white and that really bright green.