AnimeSuki Forums

Worldestroyer · 2004-01-07, 00:49

Whom, ever said i was a Naruto "Fan", i watch the show when i have bandwith and time in abudance. I just find it amuzing, i'm not a completely ill-logical and completely mindless Fanbois like some of the Naruto Fanbois

BTW: what i mean by the illogical fanbois, is that the come into channels begging for new naruto episodes the day after the newest one is out. They download from sub groups they've never seen before, whom have it out before the raw is out. And they do many other randomly stupid things that i'm to tired to write.

Worldestroyer · 2004-01-07, 00:52

your being mean :'(. It was my thread, and at the begining, before i edited my orginal post, i thought it was stupid and embarrasing and i wanted it closed and removed. And as i stated in some l337 speak farther up. I'm glad my thread morphed into this.

Mr. Bushido · 2004-01-07, 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldestroyer

your being mean :'(. It was my thread, and at the begining, before i edited my orginal post, i thought it was stupid and embarrasing and i wanted it closed and removed. And as i stated in some l337 speak farther up. I'm glad my thread morphed into this.

use the edit button. Why are so many ppl double posting instead of editing their post?

NoSanninWa · 2004-01-07, 01:04

Strangely there is a coherent and important conversation taking place in this accidental thread. I would be remiss in my duties as a moderator if I ignored this. I am going to delete several posts from people who posted nonsense because "this thread is going to be closed." And I am giving them a day's banning to remind them not to be so stupid in the future. This means p3psi gets a day's banning. Worldestroyer and Segahekui get two days because they were also posting flames - I'll be seeing you all soon.

New Topic: This thread has escaped it's creators control. The topic is now discussion of threads that should be closed. We are also bemoaning the loss of the great topics that have existed in the past and discussing why we see few of them these days. Does anyone know why, or can suggest something to revitalize the Naruto forum?

Lst2touchdasky · 2004-01-07, 01:31

as long as -The Revival of "What a character would never say" - lives on forever this forum will never *counts* 6 people ^.^ including me. You can close everything else i could care less

Vicious · 2004-01-07, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

New Topic: This thread has escaped it's creators control. The topic is now discussion of threads that should be closed. We are also bemoaning the loss of the great topics that have existed in the past and discussing why we see few of them these days. Does anyone know why, or can suggest something to revitalize the Naruto forum?

Well NoSanninWa-sama, I know why, since I've been there

At least in my case, I got tired of discussing the same subjects all over again. All these threads we see nowadays have been discussed before the crash, and the thing I most miss is being able to say "... this has been discussed before, used the search button."
After discussing the same subject about 50 times, people get tired. At least I do. Discussing about Itachi, the Uchiha clan destruction, Kakashi's Sharingan, Naruto relationship with the 4th Hokage, why we can't assume Itachi is stronger than Orochimaru (that's one I keep repeating in almost all threads). Looks like almost all Naruto subjects were already discussed in the old forum, we need something new to discuss... Like the Nine Demons thread. That's a good one IMO. Maybe the basis is old (about the 9 Great Demons) but it turned out on a thread with new information and discussion. The Kabuto one is other that hasn't been discussed too much on the old forum though. Even though, out of about 100 threads, there's 5 at maximum that's worth discussing.

Now IMO, it's obvious that if every nOOb read the Rules and FAQ, this would be a much better forum. It would decrease highly enough the number of stupid and pointless threads- even though they'll never disappear, sadly. There's no other way of making these threads disappear... Unfortanely, almost everyone who posts in this forum for the 1st time don't even bother reading the rules. What can we do? Ban them? Flame them (flaming never work after all)? There's nothing we can do after all, just give the same message "read the rules, this thread is forbidden" and close the thread. The increase in the number of stupid thread is related to the increase of people registering nowadays. A lot of nOObs have come lately, and the majority of the stupid and pointless threads are made by them... But why they do that? Because they don't read the rules. There should be a way of making everyone read the rules before posting for the 1st time... Besides making a thread for the rules, what about an instant PM with the rules of the forum? At least I read all the PMs that are sent to me. Perhaps this way people would read the rules first, and like I said before, the number of stupid threads would decrease. Also, the use of the search button. Almost no nOOb use it. If they did, the number of threads that abroads the same subject as older threads would highly decrease too. But what can we do besides telling them all the time to use the search button?

If you want to suggest something, go ahead. We need all the help we can get to revitalize this forum anyways.

raikage · 2004-01-07, 01:53

How about a 'probationary' membership - i.e. you cannot post anything for 48 hours right after joining? If nothing else, it should decrease the amount of 'where can I find the manga' threads, as well as give some people time to read around the forum and get a general idea of how it works/what threads people have posted (at least in the past 2 days).

Vicious · 2004-01-07, 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by raikage

How about a 'probationary' membership - i.e. you cannot post anything for 48 hours right after joining? If nothing else, it should decrease the amount of 'where can I find the manga' threads, as well as give some people time to read around the forum and get a general idea of how it works/what threads people have posted (at least in the past 2 days).

IMO raikage-san, that's a great idea!
Giving time to people read the forums first before posting a thread out of nowhere would help a lot. This way they would know- by reading the threads and (hopefully) the rules- that some kind of threads are forbidden here. Also, how the forum works, as you've said. The forum would get much better this way, I think.

Using this new option as well as sending a PM with the rules would work perfectly together. The nOOb would read his PM before posting- even though he wouldn't be able to post.

raikage · 2004-01-07, 02:28

The only downside is that it might decrease the amount of new members - some people join on the spot to post on a thread that they feel they have something major to contribute to, like Sharingan vs Byakugan or the Sannin and why they have the particular animals they do.

I guess there might be a sticky asking people to register even though they won't post just so that when they want to, they can...

Also, maybe deleting some inactive accounts would clear up a lot of dead space. It isn't a problem now b/c the forum was reset, but I'm sure there are enough people who join just to ask for manga, and then leave when they realize we aren't going to tell them.

pathyfinder · 2004-01-07, 08:55

Some noobs who may be mostly responsible for the "stupid" threads may not know how to find their answer. They may be brand new to forums and don't understand how to use the search button. (it is our friend

) Perhaps a general sticky for how to use it instead of posting a redundant thread may be of benefit?

I also liked that one thread we had for awhile on the first page that members could post simple questions on. Perhaps that could be a sticky?

I hate to use someone else thread to use when I have a question (as I have no idea if this is considered rude or not

) but, I hate to start a new thread for all the reasons stated in this thread.

Another problem is that (and this has been mentioned before) we have two to three different groups of people on this forum. People who see only the TV series and those who watch the series and are up to date on the Manga. The third group are people like me who Watch, don't read, but highlight every spoiler available.

The problem the different groups create is that manga readers grow tired of the Series peoples questions (been there done that-when they read the manga) and that may be annoying. (but they still gracisiously post an answer for all) Then you have really great threads and conversations on manga where series people won't even know who the hell the members are talking about let alone be able to post a decent reply about it. This may be responsible for the "void" one may feel. ?

I think one thing that has help is the sticky on the current episode!

I love the forum because it drives me nuts to see something and not understand why it can be. Not knowing drives me crazy (short trip yes, but one I'd care not take

) I know it's anime, but I come to expect a little more to it and so far it hasn't let me down. Some say "there are plot holes" and I don't want to buy that, as if it becomes overwhelmingly true, I for one, would have to stop watching. It would be so "Sakura" annoying.

to watch then.

As far a language and punctuation people have to lighten up. If someone claims to be a "perfect" English major fine, then he should post perfect. But this forum is to be fun and informative and young and old don't want to sit hear going "is this spelled right, do I need a colon or a new paragraph for this" to post. If someone doesn't understand they can ask for clarity or if it is worse than that, just don't read their post, shit no one was born perfect, so unless Jesus is here I don't think anyone should crucify anyone for bad grammar. If you can't understand, state you can't understand what someone posted, but to pick on grammar is counter productive. Unless you really need that "pat on the back" to say you are better than someone else, then go right ahead. ah feel the

Recently everything is pretty cut and dry in the series so there isn't too much to say perhaps.

hobobaggins · 2004-01-07, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathyfinder

Another problem is that (and this has been mentioned before) we have two to three different groups of people on this forum. People who see only the TV series and those who watch the series and are up to date on the Manga. The third group are people like me who Watch, don't read, but highlight every spoiler available.

the naruto forums should be split in two. the spoiler section, the non spoiler section and the "general"... because my friend wont look at animesuki forums because there are so many things he picks up that are outside of spoiler tags.

and i was wondering why p3psi was banned... i was quite shocked and

Inside the FaQ there should be a section (seperate post) that says questions that have been answered and where they have been discussed. That way anyone who posts one of those questions can be punished accordingly and cant claim "wtf?? i didnt know!!!" ... because it was in the FaQ/forum rules.

just my 20 billion lira. (.02$)

Lee-pimp · 2004-01-07, 15:00

how about moving the search button and making it more obvious like put it on top of the page enlarge it and put a small description there so noobs will know where it is and waht it is before posting stupid stuff and i agree hobo i thinkg the forums being split into spoilers and non spoilers is a great idea because then we wont have to put in tags and warnings all the time *anoying* so is the 48 hours before posting rule i think that will definetly chop down some useless stuff and one more thing how about making it somehow mandatory for the new comers to read 1) the rules 2) the faq and 3) the theads not allowed in the forums

aahhsin · 2004-01-07, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee-pimp

how about moving the search button and making it more obvious like put it on top of the page enlarge it and put a small description there so noobs will know where it is and waht it is before posting stupid stuff and i agree hobo i thinkg the forums being split into spoilers and non spoilers is a great idea because then we wont have to put in tags and warnings all the time *anoying* so is the 48 hours before posting rule i think that will definetly chop down some useless stuff and one more thing how about making it somehow mandatory for the new comers to read 1) the rules 2) the faq and 3) the theads not allowed in the forums

You people are too harsh on others. Do you want to know why people don't use the Search button? It's really simple, Here goes :

It's a lot easier to make a new post then to find an old one about the same topic.

Lets say I try finding a Post :

Sasuke is the manliest man of all men.

If i put "Sasuke" on the search i'll get like dozens of results (I'm just taking wild guesses don't try and actually put Sasuke on the Search and prove me wrong)

Then i'll have to look at each "Sasuke" thread, then after i find it I can then place an appropriate post on that thread.

Why not just make a new one it's a whole lot simplier.

Now there are exceptions, if someone posts something new when the original post is still on the first page, then that guy is just lazy, but if it's on lets say the 3rd page, then why bother trying to find it?

pathyfinder · 2004-01-07, 17:56

Perhaps people aren't HARD on "repeat threads" and the like, it's more like ANNOYING. Shit we (should) all try to follow the rules and then someone says "well it's easier and faster if I just start a new thread" after not even trying to find a similar/same thread, then perhaps they should find a new forum. This forum will work at it's best if everyone tries following the rules. Then when they are startled when they get told to try this, and do that, or worse yet get flamed they are upset?

Well, you were the one that "two lazy to look on page 2, 3 or 4.

I have no problem with people who tried the search but came up empty but people have to realize that if they really really want an answer then they should care enough to spend some time and look for it instead of cluttering up current discussions.

The premise of two Naruto forums would be nice but difficult to facilitate.

I like the idea of making the search button more user friendly

No one is perfect, but it is obvious that some people don't even try. One day we had the same thread (worded three different ways) on one page!!! Sometimes I wonder if people just do this shit for fun, then come back and say... "The Naruto forum sucks and the members are as gay as the show sucks!".

hobobaggins · 2004-01-07, 18:20

the splitting of the forums would not really be hard to do... well... maybe to seperate out the threads..

but i think the code is already in place... some other forums have it.... not that i really post on them or pay attention to them, but they are there.

aahhsin · 2004-01-07, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathyfinder

Perhaps people aren't HARD on "repeat threads" and the like, it's more like ANNOYING. Shit we (should) all try to follow the rules and then someone says "well it's easier and faster if I just start a new thread" after not even trying to find a similar/same thread, then perhaps they should find a new forum. This forum will work at it's best if everyone tries following the rules. Then when they are startled when they get told to try this, and do that, or worse yet get flamed they are upset?

Well, you were the one that "two lazy to look on page 2, 3 or 4.

I have no problem with people who tried the search but came up empty but people have to realize that if they really really want an answer then they should care enough to spend some time and look for it instead of cluttering up current discussions.

The premise of two Naruto forums would be nice but difficult to facilitate.

I like the idea of making the search button more user friendly

No one is perfect, but it is obvious that some people don't even try. One day we had the same thread (worded three different ways) on one page!!! Sometimes I wonder if people just do this shit for fun, then come back and say... "The Naruto forum sucks and the members are as gay as the show sucks!".

unfortunetly that's the harsh reality, people are lazy. including me.

i like ur caption that's pretty funny

JOJOS'STAR · 2004-01-07, 19:04

My god.. How did it get to this

I meen.. I felt like the forum was getting weird these days but not since that long ago.. Anyway I agree it does need a clean up. Especialy for the stupid theads who must be eliminate the moment they are identified

I happen to think ''Somebody please post a clever thread!'' but hey as much as old bored ''sennins'' have nothing less to talk about noobies are noobies and often ignorent not stupid, I mysel in the begining have post threads that I cant stand anymore like DBZ VS Naruto threads. But bless YOUR god I dint get flame by the recurring ''I'm cool'' quote: ''usless thread'' that appears everywhere... post count: 200 ''usless thread'' post count: 201 ..

Come one people the key is communication. I'm on for the idea of 48H after register before the first post, but will that realy change everythings? the major probleme will still occur. And I doubt it will ever change with that kind of behaviour.

Mr. Bushido · 2004-01-07, 19:15

Heres a STUPID, INEFFICIENT idea... but it would work best at getting rid of pointless threads. When a thread is created, a mod/admin must examine it.

This would require lots of mods... so maybe more mods should be hired, but only with the power to examine the creation of new threads?

"newbies" shouldnt be allowed to create a thread. After certain amount of post counts they can start creating threads. In Gamefaqs, the less of a newb u are, the more threads u can create in a 24 hr span. So maybe every 25 posts grants u 1 thread every 24 hrs?

like i said... this idea is a bit stupid.

pathyfinder · 2004-01-07, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoro

"newbies" shouldnt be allowed to create a thread. After certain amount of post counts they can start creating threads. In Gamefaqs, the less of a newb u are, the more threads u can create in a 24 hr span. So maybe every 25 posts grants u 1 thread every 24 hrs? like i said... this idea is a bit stupid.

Well your idea has merit, but i think it would be way too much work to get more mods.

also:
I became a member because I just had a burning question; so I registered and posted a new thread in the same day. "why was Gaara's sand attack brushed away so easily by Gai" ahhhhhhh seams like yesterday....

every person logs on for several reasons, waiting may not help at all, and then again it might?

-|(aGe-BuNsHiN- · 2004-01-07, 20:14

I'm not gonna even bother reading ne more than the first post and this is my reply. Whats happened to the Naruto forums i used to love. I mean I stay away for 2 weeks and its all useless threads like this.....wow.....

Edit: Im surprised this aint closed yet.

2nd Edit: LOL just for the record, anyone want to start the old who is the best out of the 3 legendar sennins (Dranz, Dragonflame.....and.......err.....my bad to whoever this was) thread again? I mean it did receive a lot of flaming but it did make Dranz and Dragonflame post within seconds of each other.

2004-01-07, 01:04	Link #24
NoSanninWa Weapon of Mass Discussion Fansubber Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, USA	Strangely there is a coherent and important conversation taking place in this accidental thread. I would be remiss in my duties as a moderator if I ignored this. I am going to delete several posts from people who posted nonsense because "this thread is going to be closed." And I am giving them a day's banning to remind them not to be so stupid in the future. This means p3psi gets a day's banning. Worldestroyer and Segahekui get two days because they were also posting flames - I'll be seeing you all soon. New Topic: This thread has escaped it's creators control. The topic is now discussion of threads that should be closed. We are also bemoaning the loss of the great topics that have existed in the past and discussing why we see few of them these days. Does anyone know why, or can suggest something to revitalize the Naruto forum? __________________ There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

2004-01-07, 08:55	Link #30
pathyfinder Terabyte needs anime! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio	Some noobs who may be mostly responsible for the "stupid" threads may not know how to find their answer. They may be brand new to forums and don't understand how to use the search button. (it is our friend) Perhaps a general sticky for how to use it instead of posting a redundant thread may be of benefit? I also liked that one thread we had for awhile on the first page that members could post simple questions on. Perhaps that could be a sticky? I hate to use someone else thread to use when I have a question (as I have no idea if this is considered rude or not ) but, I hate to start a new thread for all the reasons stated in this thread. Another problem is that (and this has been mentioned before) we have two to three different groups of people on this forum. People who see only the TV series and those who watch the series and are up to date on the Manga. The third group are people like me who Watch, don't read, but highlight every spoiler available. The problem the different groups create is that manga readers grow tired of the Series peoples questions (been there done that-when they read the manga) and that may be annoying. (but they still gracisiously post an answer for all) Then you have really great threads and conversations on manga where series people won't even know who the hell the members are talking about let alone be able to post a decent reply about it. This may be responsible for the "void" one may feel. ? I think one thing that has help is the sticky on the current episode! I love the forum because it drives me nuts to see something and not understand why it can be. Not knowing drives me crazy (short trip yes, but one I'd care not take) I know it's anime, but I come to expect a little more to it and so far it hasn't let me down. Some say "there are plot holes" and I don't want to buy that, as if it becomes overwhelmingly true, I for one, would have to stop watching. It would be so "Sakura" annoying. to watch then. As far a language and punctuation people have to lighten up. If someone claims to be a "perfect" English major fine, then he should post perfect. But this forum is to be fun and informative and young and old don't want to sit hear going "is this spelled right, do I need a colon or a new paragraph for this" to post. If someone doesn't understand they can ask for clarity or if it is worse than that, just don't read their post, shit no one was born perfect, so unless Jesus is here I don't think anyone should crucify anyone for bad grammar. If you can't understand, state you can't understand what someone posted, but to pick on grammar is counter productive. Unless you really need that "pat on the back" to say you are better than someone else, then go right ahead. ah feel the Recently everything is pretty cut and dry in the series so there isn't too much to say perhaps. Last edited by pathyfinder; 2004-01-07 at 09:10.

2004-01-07, 19:04	Link #37
JOJOS'STAR Senior Member Artist Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Montreal Age: 43	My god.. How did it get to this I meen.. I felt like the forum was getting weird these days but not since that long ago.. Anyway I agree it does need a clean up. Especialy for the stupid theads who must be eliminate the moment they are identified I happen to think ''Somebody please post a clever thread!'' but hey as much as old bored ''sennins'' have nothing less to talk about noobies are noobies and often ignorent not stupid, I mysel in the begining have post threads that I cant stand anymore like DBZ VS Naruto threads. But bless YOUR god I dint get flame by the recurring ''I'm cool'' quote: ''usless thread'' that appears everywhere... post count: 200 ''usless thread'' post count: 201 .. Come one people the key is communication. I'm on for the idea of 48H after register before the first post, but will that realy change everythings? the major probleme will still occur. And I doubt it will ever change with that kind of behaviour. __________________

2004-01-07, 00:49	Link #21
Worldestroyer IRC lurker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston, MA USA Age: 35	Whom, ever said i was a Naruto "Fan", i watch the show when i have bandwith and time in abudance. I just find it amuzing, i'm not a completely ill-logical and completely mindless Fanbois like some of the Naruto Fanbois BTW: what i mean by the illogical fanbois, is that the come into channels begging for new naruto episodes the day after the newest one is out. They download from sub groups they've never seen before, whom have it out before the raw is out. And they do many other randomly stupid things that i'm to tired to write.

2004-01-07, 00:52	Link #22
Worldestroyer IRC lurker Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston, MA USA Age: 35	your being mean :'(. It was my thread, and at the begining, before i edited my orginal post, i thought it was stupid and embarrasing and i wanted it closed and removed. And as i stated in some l337 speak farther up. I'm glad my thread morphed into this.

2004-01-07, 01:31	Link #25
Lst2touchdasky Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Phoenix,AZ Age: 36	as long as -The Revival of "What a character would never say" - lives on forever this forum will never counts 6 people ^.^ including me. You can close everything else i could care less

2004-01-07, 01:53	Link #27
raikage 日本語を食べません！ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 41	How about a 'probationary' membership - i.e. you cannot post anything for 48 hours right after joining? If nothing else, it should decrease the amount of 'where can I find the manga' threads, as well as give some people time to read around the forum and get a general idea of how it works/what threads people have posted (at least in the past 2 days).

2004-01-07, 02:28	Link #29
raikage 日本語を食べません！ Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: San Francisco Age: 41	The only downside is that it might decrease the amount of new members - some people join on the spot to post on a thread that they feel they have something major to contribute to, like Sharingan vs Byakugan or the Sannin and why they have the particular animals they do. I guess there might be a sticky asking people to register even though they won't post just so that when they want to, they can... Also, maybe deleting some inactive accounts would clear up a lot of dead space. It isn't a problem now b/c the forum was reset, but I'm sure there are enough people who join just to ask for manga, and then leave when they realize we aren't going to tell them.

2004-01-07, 15:00	Link #32
Lee-pimp A.S.S. Vice President Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: i dont know can you help me Age: 34	how about moving the search button and making it more obvious like put it on top of the page enlarge it and put a small description there so noobs will know where it is and waht it is before posting stupid stuff and i agree hobo i thinkg the forums being split into spoilers and non spoilers is a great idea because then we wont have to put in tags and warnings all the time anoying so is the 48 hours before posting rule i think that will definetly chop down some useless stuff and one more thing how about making it somehow mandatory for the new comers to read 1) the rules 2) the faq and 3) the theads not allowed in the forums

2004-01-07, 17:56	Link #34
pathyfinder Terabyte needs anime! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio	Perhaps people aren't HARD on "repeat threads" and the like, it's more like ANNOYING. Shit we (should) all try to follow the rules and then someone says "well it's easier and faster if I just start a new thread" after not even trying to find a similar/same thread, then perhaps they should find a new forum. This forum will work at it's best if everyone tries following the rules. Then when they are startled when they get told to try this, and do that, or worse yet get flamed they are upset? Well, you were the one that "two lazy to look on page 2, 3 or 4. I have no problem with people who tried the search but came up empty but people have to realize that if they really really want an answer then they should care enough to spend some time and look for it instead of cluttering up current discussions. The premise of two Naruto forums would be nice but difficult to facilitate. I like the idea of making the search button more user friendly No one is perfect, but it is obvious that some people don't even try. One day we had the same thread (worded three different ways) on one page!!! Sometimes I wonder if people just do this shit for fun, then come back and say... "The Naruto forum sucks and the members are as gay as the show sucks!".

2004-01-07, 18:20	Link #35
hobobaggins だいすきが大好きです！ Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 35	the splitting of the forums would not really be hard to do... well... maybe to seperate out the threads.. but i think the code is already in place... some other forums have it.... not that i really post on them or pay attention to them, but they are there.

2004-01-07, 19:15	Link #38
Mr. Bushido Zoro Join Date: Nov 2003	Heres a STUPID, INEFFICIENT idea... but it would work best at getting rid of pointless threads. When a thread is created, a mod/admin must examine it. This would require lots of mods... so maybe more mods should be hired, but only with the power to examine the creation of new threads? "newbies" shouldnt be allowed to create a thread. After certain amount of post counts they can start creating threads. In Gamefaqs, the less of a newb u are, the more threads u can create in a 24 hr span. So maybe every 25 posts grants u 1 thread every 24 hrs? like i said... this idea is a bit stupid.

2004-01-07, 20:14	Link #40
-\|(aGe-BuNsHiN- Vandread Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: I LOVE NEW YORK cough* my ass cough* Age: 37	I'm not gonna even bother reading ne more than the first post and this is my reply. Whats happened to the Naruto forums i used to love. I mean I stay away for 2 weeks and its all useless threads like this.....wow..... Edit: Im surprised this aint closed yet. 2nd Edit: LOL just for the record, anyone want to start the old who is the best out of the 3 legendar sennins (Dranz, Dragonflame.....and.......err.....my bad to whoever this was) thread again? I mean it did receive a lot of flaming but it did make Dranz and Dragonflame post within seconds of each other.