Macross Delta - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Thess]

Originally Posted by darkplatform

lately (in my opinion, possibly) in a negative light with the weird blackouts.

Oh, wait. You were talking about the scene this episode? It's not a blackout. Hayate explained it to Freyja when they talked. IIRC, because I'm lazy to recheck, he could feel 'the real sky' in her singing this time which felt very good. Remember when Alto felt like floating in the sky in Sayonara no Tsubasa because of Sheryl's speech? It's the same deal. He was surprised by the sensation I guess.

[magnuskn]

Oh, boo. Well, we'll see what it becomes in the future. I am still pretty sure that the quite prominent scene last episode was not just for shits and giggles.

And as for Kawamori feeling that he's done with love triangles, what more is there to reach after Sheryl and Alto? I can understand him there.

Although a love triangle which is not slanted to one side would still be something new for Macross.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

And as for Kawamori feeling that he's done with love triangles, what more is there to reach after Sheryl and Alto? I can understand him there.

Although a love triangle which is not slanted to one side would still be something new for Macross.

I agree with this. However, I feel Messer/Kaname/Arad would have been a better love triangle for this show... I can't get behind the 'romantic' chemistry behind the leads...and Mirage.

Ah, forgive me. I forgot to add this Kawamori wanted to remove one of the three features of Macross for Delta but the sponsors forced him to keep the three, iirc. While he doesn't outright state it was the love triangle, we know Delta always had idols (in fact he wanted a group of them from the beginning) and valkyries with mecha stuff. By logic, he didn't want to bother with a love triangle this time. Just draw your own conclusions.

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, boo. Well, we'll see what it becomes in the future. I am still pretty sure that the quite prominent scene last episode was not just for shits and giggles.

It just shows his bond with Freyja deepens. He can feel her sorrow through her singing (similar to False Songstress emotion sharing bond) and he was sucked into a real sky which left him shaken (but in a good way). They also had their little, uhh, romantic scene with mutual blushing and near confession interrupted by an old couple this episode (which led Freyja to speak about how she never met old couples until she was in Ragna and how beautiful must be to be always together, and Hayate ruined the "mood" thankfully).

I think he needs to start manning up to stand on his two feet next to Freyja in this sense, but I don't know how will happen now the

Spoiler for stuff:

bomb his dad nuked Windermere was released and Freyja also knows. Both of them are sitting together confronting a civilian dressed Cassim in the preview (I AM SO EXCITED BECUASE I HOPE HE LIVES).

[magnuskn]

Yeah, at the beginning of the series it was an upsetting thought, but by now the anemic romantic tension between any of the three characters really does not make me even that enthused at the prospect of them finally doing something in the last ten episodes. If it even happens.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Yeah, at the beginning of the series it was an upsetting thought, but by now the anemic romantic tension between any of the three characters really does not make me even that enthused at the prospect of them finally doing something in the last ten episodes. If it even happens.

This episode had Kaname recalling how Messer protected her in Voldor and looking sad and Arad glancing at her worriedly. That was more interesting that Mirage's jealous glances while she's silent in the background.

[darkplatform]

Originally Posted by Thess

Oh, wait. You were talking about the scene this episode? It's not a blackout. Hayate explained it to Freyja when they talked. IIRC, because I'm lazy to recheck, he could feel 'the real sky' in her singing this time which felt very good. Remember when Alto felt like floating in the sky in Sayonara no Tsubasa because of Sheryl's speech? It's the same deal. He was surprised by the sensation I guess.

Uhmm, I see.

Well that's disappointing *sigh* like so many things in Delta. Expecting an unpredictable twist is too much to ask.

Aquarion route it is then, Mirage only exists to get heartaches and cry in a corner wiith nobody ever noticing I guess.

Jewel buff was already in comedy's level when Hayate overpowered Keith which means he surpassed Messer the ace with absolutely no effort other than magical buff.
Hayate with Freyja will get some amount of drama with the bomb thing only to bond later because of it.
Same thing for the mp3 player.

I would say at some point Freyja will be abducted like Ranka so Hayate will become a husk of himself (useless without her as the interview says) and someone maybe Mirage will send him after Freyja, at the cost of her own happiness again.
This would be literally the only purpose of Mirage's existence because I don't see her doing anything important for the final battles following this trend.

Final episode will be VS of buffed pilots, Hayate with Freyja in the backseat against Keith with Heinz, or both pairs against the true enemy, maybe Roid or that guy with the middle East look.

Only Mikumo's part to play I don't dare to predict yet, or we can go once again after the most basic thing and say she sacrifices along with the ruins to give Freyja and her planet a full lifespan again.

*sigh again*

Everything in Delta feels this uninteresting and simpleton in plot points for anyone else or is just me?

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by darkplatform

Uhmm, I see.

Well that's disappointing *sigh* like so many things in Delta. Expecting an unpredictable twist is too much to ask.

Mirage only exists to get heartaches and cry in a corner wiith nobody ever noticing I guess.

Jewel buff was already in comedy's level when Hayate overpowered Keith which means he surpassed Messer the ace with absolutely no effort other than magical buff.
Hayate with Freyja will get some amount of drama with the bomb thing only to bond later because of it.
Same thing for the mp3 player.

I would say at some point Freyja will be abducted like Ranka so Hayate will become a husk of himself (useless without her as the interview says) and someone maybe Mirage will send him after Freyja, at the cost of her own happiness again.
This would be literally the only purpose of Mirage's existence because I don't see her doing anything important for the final battles following this trend.

Final episode will be VS of buffed pilots, Hayate with Freyja in the backseat against Keith with Heinz, or both pairs against the true enemy, maybe Roid or that guy with the middle East look.

Only Mikumo's part to play I don't dare to predict yet, or we can go once again after the most basic thing and say she sacrifices along with the ruins to give Freyja and her planet a full lifespan again.

*sigh again*

Everything in Delta feels this empty of interesting twists and simpleton in plot for anyone else or is just me?

We talked about that a couple of weeks ago and I still feel the same.

[Mistyclear]

The Voldorian pilot that appears at the end is the one that Freyja saved correct?
If so he better not die (for his children's sake).

[Thess]

Originally Posted by darkplatform

Mirage only exists to cry and get heartaches with nobody ever noticing I guess.

Honestly, who cares about this? Her feelings came out nowhere and remain inexplicable to me. Other characters are concerned about real problems like the war while hers seem petty and childish. She needs to learn to move on and grow up. It was really unappealing she was looking silently jealous when Freyja and the girls were singing their hearts out for their mission.

At least she's not putting herself a fake rune to catch Hayate's eye like Zessica would do, so she's salvageable.

Originally Posted by darkplatform

Jewel buff was already in comedy's level when Hayate overpowered Keith which means he surpassed Messer the ace with absolutely no effort other than magical buff.
Hayate with Freyja will get some amount of drama with the bomb thing only to bond later because of it.
Same thing for the mp3 player.

Well, yes, they are the main characters and this affects their performance which is pivotal for the plot resolution.

Originally Posted by darkplatform

I would say at some point Freyja will be abducted like Ranka so Hayate will become a husk of himself (useless without her as the interview says) and someone maybe Mirage will send him after Freyja, at expense of her own suffering again.

This would be literally the only purpose of Mirage's existence because I don't see her doing anything important for the final battles following this trend.

I don't know about that. Roid is interested in Mikumo and Freyja (both), but I can't see Hayate be a husk because Freyja was simply kidnapped. If he believed her dead (like Alto to Sheryl in the movies, because why not? They have copy/pasted a lot of their stuff already), perhaps. But if she's just kidnapped, Hayate will be more determinate to save her and not waste time to be depressed, IMO. He's not that kind of character.

As for Mirage, unfortunately I really can't count on her doing that. This episode she could have spoken to comfort Hayate about his father... but instead Arad did, and Chuck was the one who asked him stuff later when he was coming to terms with it. Mirage only said they'll be there for him for what he needed after Hayate stated he wanted to learn the truth, etc. She barely had any dialogue. She's way too passive and reactionary. Her problem is, as I said earlier in other posts, she's a foil to Freyja and Hayate who are proactive and extrovert characters.

I wouldn't rule her out as a romantic victor, if Freyja's storyarc is more about the big picture tho. She'll always be a poorly written character, nonetheless.

Originally Posted by darkplatform

Final episode will be VS of buffed pilots, Hayate with Freyja in the backseat against Keith with Heinz, or both pairs against the true enemy, maybe Roid or that guy with the middle East look.

Don't forget the evil looking NUNS commander who would be revealed manipulating Roid all along through his middle Easter looking link. I think Keith vs Roid will happen, and Hayate will deal with whatever corrupted NUNS faction exist this time because it's tied to his daddy issues.

Originally Posted by darkplatform

Only Mikumo's part to play I don't dare to predict yet, or we can go once again after the most basic thing and say she sacrifices along with the ruins to give Freyja and her planet a full lifespan again.

Mikumo stuff was brought up by Freyja and Kaname this episode, it's developing. Roid is also fixated on her (and Freyja).

[magnuskn]

Nope, I'm with you darkplataform.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ValvraveTruth

Thats why i said FreyjaxHayate will not happen, this episode pretty much screaming it. Its not about Hayate's father bomb Vindermere, but the fact that Freyja's life is short. And at the beginning of the episode, it was said that Vindermere people's life expectancy can be even shorter than 30 years.

Romance works best when there are hurdles to overcome. Freyja living just 30 years isn't much of a problem. She just thinks it is. What she has to overcome to get her romance is her fear.

I believe Freyja will wish HayatexMirage to be together and be happy at the end of series

HayatexMirage is never gonna work. They didn't build any sort of romantic chemistry between them and it's too late to start now. Mirage doesn't even have much of a character, let alone being able to carry a romance plotline.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

HayatexMirage is never gonna work. They didn't build any sort of romantic chemistry between them and it's too late to start now.

I don't think it's too late if Freyja has to choose between saving the Galaxy or hooking up with Hayate. It wouldn't be Hayate's choice, though, not directly.

[Matts]

Originally Posted by darkplatform

Everything in Delta feels this uninteresting and simpleton in plot points for anyone else or is just me?

The only reason I'm signing in after god knows how long is to say: here-here! Once it gets to Mirage sending Hayate off to get Freyja/them bonding over the mp3 player I am jumping this trainwreck. I also think Mirage's non-development gets way too much focus, probably because of the LT thing, but almost none of the characters have any personality. The Knights are by far the worst here, but Arad is a hollow shell himself.

And just a note, it's nice they thought they were going for Hayate feeling super good about Freyja's singing this episode, but the scene with his eyes looked horrifying.

Sorry for being Salty McNofun. The concert was nice. And the songs. Blah. I'm off.

[Thess]

I think Kawamori should have just made it about Walkure. They are the real hook of Delta.

[magnuskn]

Am I wrong in finally feeling a bit vindicated after griping about the lackluster character development since almost the start of the series?

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by Thess

I think Kawamori should have just made it about Walkure. They are the real hook of Delta.

I don't think so...

This whole Walkure thing is what's not making this show really tick with me. Than we have the medicore characters and story, Imo...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Thess

I don't think it's too late if Freyja has to choose between saving the Galaxy or hooking up with Hayate. It wouldn't be Hayate's choice, though, not directly.

It's too late because Mirage is a non character and doesn't have any romantic chemistry with Hayate. They had many chances to start building something up but they didn't. Freyja has nothing to do with this. Even if she doesn't get together with Hayate, he won't end up with Mirage.

As far as I'm concerned, it's gonna be a HayatexFreyja ending, or and ending without romantic resolution.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Am I wrong in finally feeling a bit vindicated after griping about the lackluster character development since almost the start of the series?

Just the Mirage's part, I'm satisfied with Hayate and Freyja personally (and I loved Kaname and Messer stuff). Arad's finally coming together as character (if a bit too late) since that former NUNS buddy appeared. Chuck desperately needs something (the part with his sister was really underplayed) and I feel that the Knights are going into a nice direction specially my favorite Cassim (watch me death flag him with this) who is obviously jumping out this galaxy conquest bandwagon.

Maybe Reina and Makina needed some development, but they are better than say, Nanase or Luca. Mikumo's arc is slowly developing too.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's too late because Mirage is a non character and doesn't have any romantic chemistry with Hayate.

Don't underestimate the bad writing surrounding Mirage. It could happen, that's why they invest into so many "pity her silent 'suffering'" scenes.

Edit: Definitely my favorite scene this episode. Bogue not so tough against a barely clothed, singing Reina. His screaming against Walkure in the end was pure comedy. How can you take him seriously as enemy after this?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Thess

Don't underestimate the bad writing surrounding Mirage. It could happen, that's why they invest into so many "pity her silent 'suffering'" scenes.

Yeah no, I don't think so. If the stars align and it does happen somehow, I'll eat my words, but right now I'm convinced it's just not possible.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Yeah no, I don't think so. If the stars align and it does happen somehow, I'll eat my words, but right now I'm convinced it's just not possible.

How many episodes does this have? Because Hayate is going to spend time with her in their mission and Freyja won't be there (though preview does show him with Freyja talking to Cassim, so idk how long will that be ). They could play the "I am in love with Freyja, but love Mirage" card too.