High School DxD Light Novel - DX.5 (Short Story Collection)

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

You're forgetting the fact that Kiba still didn't have the technique when he fought Bikou(the one he used in his fight against Issei) where he equipped booster to increase his speed to the point that Issei can't catch him up if not for Issei Kiba's habit (due to them training together).Correction Kiba's speed in his new technique was not only above CxC Kiba's speed with this technique was even faster than Issei in his Pseudo Dragon Deification and he can't even catch up to him. Kiba was also Las in the fight against Bikou as he just along with the flow at that time.

In Erebus case it's more similar to what Issei did to defeat Kiba. Erebus studies Issei's battle habits techniques and stuffs .

Power doesn't always equate speed . Best example of this is Crom versus Vali fight as Crom was strong overall than Vali but Vali is still faster than him. Different guys have their own different aspects that they specializes in. For Example Issei is leaning more towards power while Vali was leaning more on speed and technique.Another example was Kiba and Xenovia as Xenovia focuses more on Power while Kiba was leaning more towards speed and techniques. Issei is fast but it's mostly in direct speed while Kiba and maybe Vali that's not the case as they have control over their speed.

Kiba loses in Pseudo Dragon Deification in terms of overall strength but Kiba with his booster was faster Issei in Pseudo Dragon Deification. Kiba is a type of power that relies heavily on techniques and his god speed and is adept at gaining his opponent weakness he's kind of like Cao Cao in the that their base was low but their techniques and combat strength can let them fight someone stronger than them. Guys like them shouldn't be just be judged base on their raw power and base state but instead it should be based on their combat strength.

There is a reason if I was mentioning “Kiba’s base speed”, not booster. Read better what I’ve written.

Kiba’s base (without booster, more easy to understand) was described to be faster than CxC issei, but could not even eliminate Bikou and blitz him who is only ultimate-class.

During the match against Issei, Kiba’s base speed (higher than maou-class) could see Issei P DxD who his speed is far faster than him, with a big gap technically that should not be possible. If was coherent, issei would have blitzed Kiba base being only faster than CxC, but could compete with P DxD. If it was so fast, in one second would have eliminated Bikou.

Only when Kiba used Booster, his speed overpassed Issei P DxD and could even blitz them, when the difference between them were inferior before the beginning. But issei could not do it even if was faster than Kiba’s base at the beginning.

So if now issei P DxD studies Shiva’s technique and else can compete with Him, with his aura’s attacks? So if Apollon now study Vali’s movements in DxD L can see his attacks? Or if Ravel studies Issei CxC can compete with him? Issei P DxD is top 10 in every aspect: Attack, Defense, Speed ecc. from top 10 and god not fighter the difference is as big as the heaven and earth.
Only because I study you I would not be able to contrast your aura’s attacks, see your movements and else. Because I do not think the study increase your power.

I do not think if I study the fighting style of one of the strongest box fighter of the world, who is faster, higher and more heavy than me now I can compete with him, having less experience, physical power and else. I would not even be able to give him a punch, because he would defeat me with K.O in one second.

Again, normally if you are in certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but there are sometimes difference in the statistic with some abnormal Valor as Vali/Kiba with the speed. Then, is influenced by your type to fight, for exemple Rias not being a fighter hand to hand has a speed, reflexes and resistance smaller than Issei BxB who can blitz her.

But how this reply to everything? Fenrir 80% is not so far from the level of top 10, he is specialised in agility, velocity and else being a fighter hand to hand. Every his physical statistic is far above every his opponent.

Why Sairaorg (over maou-class) could go so fast to svanish his figure? Why Vali’s movements can not even be heared in EJOD, not doing noise? But Fenrir who is superior can not?
How this justifies a normal dragon-king could avoid his attacks and see him with the big gap? Even for Balor Rias?
The same thing for P DxD vs Balor Rias, she could match issei’s attack for Pod, but every other her static as speed, reflexes and else were far inferior than Issei.

Because I remember when issei fought against Belial, even without worthless could not even compete in speed and else. For the Gap.
But now fighters with a gap bigger than those two can compete and not even be blitzed as Issei against enemies a lot of more powerful.

[B214]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

There is a reason if I was mentioning “Kiba’s base speed”, not booster. Read better what I’ve written.

Kiba’s base (without booster, more easy to understand) was described to be faster than CxC issei, but could not even eliminate Bikou and blitz him who is only ultimate-class.

During the match against Issei, Kiba’s base speed (higher than maou-class) could see Issei P DxD who his speed is far faster than him, with a big gap technically that should not be possible. If was coherent, issei would have blitzed Kiba base being only faster than CxC, but could compete with P DxD. If it was so fast, in one second would have eliminated Bikou.

Only when Kiba used Booster, his speed overpassed Issei P DxD and could even blitz them, when the difference between them were inferior before the beginning. But issei could not do it even if was faster than Kiba’s base at the beginning.

So if now issei P DxD studies Shiva’s technique and else can compete with Him, with his aura’s attacks? So if Apollon now study Vali’s movements in DxD L can see his attacks? Or if Ravel studies Issei CxC can compete with him? Issei P DxD is top 10 in every aspect: Attack, Defense, Speed ecc. from top 10 and god not fighter the difference is as big as the heaven and earth.
Only because I study you I would not be able to contrast your aura’s attacks, see your movements and else. Because I do not think the study increase your power.

I do not think if I study the fighting style of one of the strongest box fighter of the world, who is faster, higher and more heavy than me now I can compete with him, having less experience, physical power and else. I would not even be able to give him a punch, because he would defeat me with K.O in one second.

Again, normally if you are in certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but there are sometimes difference in the statistic with some abnormal Valor as Vali/Kiba with the speed. Then, is influenced by your type to fight, for exemple Rias not being a fighter hand to hand has a speed, reflexes and resistance smaller than Issei BxB who can blitz her.

But how this reply to everything? Fenrir 80% is not so far from the level of top 10, he is specialised in agility, velocity and else being a fighter hand to hand. Every his physical statistic is far above every his opponent.

Why Sairaorg (over maou-class) could go so fast to svanish his figure? Why Vali’s movements can not even be heared in EJOD, not doing noise? But Fenrir who is superior can not?
How this justifies a normal dragon-king could avoid his attacks and see him with the big gap? Even for Balor Rias?
The same thing for P DxD vs Balor Rias, she could match issei’s attack for Pod, but every other her static as speed, reflexes and else were far inferior than Issei.

Because I remember when issei fought against Belial, even without worthless could not even compete in speed and else. For the Gap.
But now fighters with a gap bigger than those two can compete and not even be blitzed as Issei against enemies a lot of more powerful.

You're acting as if Bikou is weak. He's been on Vali's side for a while now. Also if you want to use speed to say Kiba should be able to blitz Bikou, how come Ise couldn't beat Sun Wukong when they were training before. Ise is more powerful than Sun Wukong even without DxD at that time, Sun Wukong even said it himself. Being fast or powerful doesn't determine the results. Also please don't forget while not skill like Kuroka or Koneko, Bikou can use Senjutsu too to boost his physical strength and so on.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by B214

You're acting as if Bikou is weak. He's been on Vali's side for a while now. Also if you want to use speed to say Kiba should be able to blitz Bikou, how come Ise couldn't beat Sun Wukong when they were training before. Ise is more powerful than Sun Wukong even without DxD at that time, Sun Wukong even said it himself. Being fast or powerful doesn't determine the results. Also please don't forget while not skill like Kuroka or Koneko, Bikou can use Senjutsu too to boost his physical strength and so on.

Based on what? I said only he’s level is ultimate-class and Kiba is stronger than him both in raw power, velocity and abilities.. If Kiba that is faster than CxC (maou-class) and could compete with P DxD velocity, for which reason he would not be able to blitz Bikou?

Ah, i remember Kiba was having the best from the fight, both in speed, techniques and raw power (thanks to Vasco). It was not mentioned it, furthermore even if it was used, was not enough to compete in raw power and certainly against someone faster than a maou-class and equal to P DxD without booster.

Because are two different things? Sun wukon have centuries of experience and is a technique type as Cao Cao, being able to avoid easily both Arthur and Bikou’s attacks. The problem with him is be able to hit him. How is relevant with what I’ve said? Qualities that Bikou has not.

Because I was mentioning a big difference among two classes in everything. Why Yu-long, a normal dragon king could avoid Fenrir’s attacks at 80%? When the difference is immense in velocity, agility, reflexes, attack and defense. Or as for the other exemple.

So Shiva against DxD L having more destructive power does not determinate the result of his victory? Kiba being faster than Rias does not determinare the victory? I know raw power and velocity does not result always the victory, but I want a valid reason how Yu-long, inferior in everything could avoid Fenrir’s attacks, how Kiba’s base could compete with P DxD, even being a lot of slower being described to be faster only than CxC with a big gap. But later Kiba with booster could blitz issei, even if the gap was inferior than before.

But issei against Belial could not even move a single finger against him being weaker in everything.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

What?
Kiba is faster only than CxC, but Bikou that is ultimate class could face Kiba even if with difficulty for all the match, even if he is inferior than CxC.
But suddendly, during the match among Kiba and Issei P DxD, Kiba could keep up with the speed of P DxD, even if it is a lot of superior than his base speed, when for all the story, when there is a difference of power among Two in different classes, it is impossible see the opponent's moviments.
If Kiba was faster than CxC and equal to P DxD in base form would have defeat in one second Bikou.

For exemple, Issei CxC with Belial vol20 could not even see him, Cao Cao could avoid Sairaorg only with the instinct. But, with a big difference among Issei P DxD and Kiba base speed (superior only than CxC), this last could keep Issei's speed when should not be possible for the logic.
It’s like now Erebus can compete with Vali DxD L in speed or Apollon.

We know that already Vali Ejod moves so high at a god speed that his figure svanished, even Vasco can do the same. But Fenrir 80% that is superior than their, for the plot can move only at high speed, not even able to disappear when it should be able to do it, while even sairaorg btb can do the same. Indeed for the plot Balor Rias could see him. The same thing for issei vs Rias when he moves only at high speed, when technically should be God-speed, with Rias able to see him., even with the difference of power enormous, when previosly Issei could not see Kiba with the booster even if it was not a big difference in speed

So beautiful the coherence. Kiba with a big difference in base form with P DxD could see Issei, but Issei against Kiba’s booster with a difference smaller than before can not see him?
Hades only for the plot could see Vali’s attacks when Crom, a fighter hand to hand could not.

you are assuming that bikou is still ultimate-class, remember that characters can get stronger off-screen so bikou getting stronger is not a surprise. also we dont know how fast bikou is so there is that.

there is a thing known as "specialization", just because you are stronger in power it does not mean you are superior in every way. is fenrir more powerful than EJOD? probably, but that does not mean he is as fast as vali, especially not when vali seems to have speed above his other parameters too

also power =/= reaction time, issei is an all rounder guy while kiba as an specialization on speed so him being faster than issei is not far fetched. you can be heavenly dragon class and still be slow as fuck or have god-speed but still be ultimate-class, a character can be three classes higher than another guy and still be slower. think of it like a videogame, issei is a lvl 90 tank whit standard speed while kiba is a lvl 20 assassin who dumps everything in speed.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

you are assuming that bikou is still ultimate-class, remember that characters can get stronger off-screen so bikou getting stronger is not a surprise. also we dont know how fast bikou is so there is that.

there is a thing known as "specialization", just because you are stronger in power it does not mean you are superior in every way. is fenrir more powerful than EJOD? probably, but that does not mean he is as fast as vali, especially not when vali seems to have speed above his other parameters too

also power =/= reaction time, issei is an all rounder guy while kiba as an specialization on speed so him being faster than issei is not far fetched. you can be heavenly dragon class and still be slow as fuck or have god-speed but still be ultimate-class, a character can be three classes higher than another guy and still be slower. think of it like a videogame, issei is a lvl 90 tank whit standard speed while kiba is a lvl 20 assassin who dumps everything in speed.

It has not been mentioned to become maou-class or over, so is still ultimate-class as well, however it’s not relevant. Kiba’s speed was over maou-class and if could compete with P DxD, it would be easy blitz him.

Again, Fenrir speciality was the the physical strength in speed, agility and resistance being the only way to fight using the fans and clowns. Furthermore it is 80% in every statistic, not only raw power, but even speed.

Or you Sairaorg btb who is specialised in raw power is faster than a 80% fenfir? Or Yu-long has better reaction time to avoid his attacks, when is inferior in every statics.

Again, Issei CxC could not even move a single finger against Belial for the power gap, as for the fact he was way faster than him. But I do not think Belial is specialised in speed as Kiba, but only because is maou-class in every statistic. Now for which Reason Yu-long could avoid Fenrir attacks at 80%? Certainly the gap between them is far bigger than CxC vol20 vs Belial.

If you are as Issei or however a character specialised in fight hand to hand, but able to use even demoniac power/aura, every your statistic is of the class of which you belong.
Yu-long is ultimate-class in everything, Fenrir 80% is far above in everything than him.

But issei is not a tank with standard speed, Issei is heavenly dragon class in attack, defense, speed, otherwise would have not even been able to fight Vidar.
Except what you said it’s valid only for Vali and Kiba, they are the only abnormal in speed without count the class. In every other character if you have a class higher than another one, you are better in everything, but usually statics as Speed/physical strength depends from your way to fight.

God-speed is something that since the beginning is present, but there is a big difference among the god-speed of other character used later. There is difference among god-speed of Kiba of vol1/2 and 10 for example.

But Kiba’s speed is only higher than Issei P DxD in booster, without them the difference among them is gigant even in speed, but Issei could not blitz him, but when the difference was smaller, Kiba could blitz issei.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

It has not been mentioned to become maou-class or over, so is still ultimate-class as well, however it’s not relevant. Kiba’s speed was over maou-class and if could compete with P DxD, it would be easy blitz him.

Again, Fenrir speciality was the the physical strength in speed, agility and resistance being the only way to fight using the fans and clowns. Furthermore it is 80% in every statistic, not only raw power, but even speed.

Or you Sairaorg btb who is specialised in raw power is faster than a 80% fenfir? Or Yu-long has better reaction time to avoid his attacks, when is inferior in every statics.

Again, Issei CxC could not even move a single finger against Belial for the power gap, as for the fact he was way faster than him. But I do not think Belial is specialised in speed as Kiba, but only because is maou-class in every statistic. Now for which Reason Yu-long could avoid Fenrir attacks at 80%? Certainly the gap between them is far bigger than CxC vol20 vs Belial.

If you are as Issei or however a character specialised in fight hand to hand, but able to use even demoniac power/aura, every your statistic is of the class of which you belong.
Yu-long is ultimate-class in everything, Fenrir 80% is far above in everything than him.

But issei is not a tank with standard speed, Issei is heavenly dragon class in attack, defense, speed, otherwise would have not even been able to fight Vidar.
Except what you said it’s valid only for Vali and Kiba, they are the only abnormal in speed without count the class. In every other character if you have a class higher than another one, you are better in everything, but usually statics as Speed/physical strength depends from your way to fight.

God-speed is something that since the beginning is present, but there is a big difference among the god-speed of other character used later. There is difference among god-speed of Kiba of vol1/2 and 10 for example.

But Kiba’s speed is only higher than Issei P DxD in booster, without them the difference among them is gigant even in speed, but Issei could not blitz him, but when the difference was smaller, Kiba could blitz issei.

he was never mentioned to be ultimate-class though? and no, by this point after all the fights bikou being ultimate-class would be nonsensical. especially considering how he was competing whit tanin that he himself said would be around maou-class, even if he was not serious neither was bikou.

when did we get a stat sheet of fenrir? we dont know if he is particularly fast compared to everything else in his stats or he lacks in speed. also fenrir literally charges forwards every time he tries to close the distance so rias and yu long dont even need to be faster, just to predict his trajectory and move away which should make it easier to avoid for someone who can teleport like rias or that is as flexible as yu long. also we never saw yu long fighting, you just assumed his speed way back then and now are saying it makes no sense because canon does not match your assumptions

stop using belial vs issei as reference, this is the champion of the rating games so he probably has an S in every category instead of being a jack of all trades.

you got it wrong, im not saying issei doesn't has heavenly-dragon class speed, im saying kiba is faster than that. yes issei is heavenly dragon in every regard aside of technique and his biggest trait is his endurance (hence him being a tank) but kiba who has a massive specialization in speed and technique can still be faster even if his raw power is overall weaker. to use videogame terms, issei is a lvl 90 guy who spent his stats evenly whit a bigger focus on endurance, kiba is a lvl 40 guy who dumped everything into technique and speed. overall issei stats are much bigger but kiba beats him in those two aspects

"god-speed" means jackshit at this point, issei was moving at "god-speed" back in kyoto, then god-speed was something above that, god-speed is just issei saying "that guy seems fucking fast to me". you cant use anything as reference but feats at this point, kiba being a certain speed in vol X does not mean he cant be faster in volume Y, characters get stronger over time, even if its not outright said in the most blatant way possible.

the difference clearly is not "gigantic" as you assume, if kiba could match P DxD that means he is now that fast, it might be giant jump in power from last time but its a fact.

frankly the problem here is that you assumed how fast a character is and then get angry when it did not match canon, characters get stronger as the story progresses, some can be much faster than their category suggests.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

he was never mentioned to be ultimate-class though? and no, by this point after all the fights bikou being ultimate-class would be nonsensical. especially considering how he was competing whit tanin that he himself said would be around maou-class, even if he was not serious neither was bikou.

when did we get a stat sheet of fenrir? we dont know if he is particularly fast compared to everything else in his stats or he lacks in speed. also fenrir literally charges forwards every time he tries to close the distance so rias and yu long dont even need to be faster, just to predict his trajectory and move away which should make it easier to avoid for someone who can teleport like rias or that is as flexible as yu long. also we never saw yu long fighting, you just assumed his speed way back then and now are saying it makes no sense because canon does not match your assumptions

stop using belial vs issei as reference, this is the champion of the rating games so he probably has an S in every category instead of being a jack of all trades.

you got it wrong, im not saying issei doesn't has heavenly-dragon class speed, im saying kiba is faster than that. yes issei is heavenly dragon in every regard aside of technique and his biggest trait is his endurance (hence him being a tank) but kiba who has a massive specialization in speed and technique can still be faster even if his raw power is overall weaker. to use videogame terms, issei is a lvl 90 guy who spent his stats evenly whit a bigger focus on endurance, kiba is a lvl 40 guy who dumped everything into technique and speed. overall issei stats are much bigger but kiba beats him in those two aspects

"god-speed" means jackshit at this point, issei was moving at "god-speed" back in kyoto, then god-speed was something above that, god-speed is just issei saying "that guy seems fucking fast to me". you cant use anything as reference but feats at this point, kiba being a certain speed in vol X does not mean he cant be faster in volume Y, characters get stronger over time, even if its not outright said in the most blatant way possible.

the difference clearly is not "gigantic" as you assume, if kiba could match P DxD that means he is now that fast, it might be giant jump in power from last time but its a fact.

frankly the problem here is that you assumed how fast a character is and then get angry when it did not match canon, characters get stronger as the story progresses, some can be much faster than their category suggests.

His consume of pawns was only 5 like guys as Saji and Nakiri. So even Kuroka should not be more Ultimate-class after all the fights? Tannin only in pure power, maybe traduced in raw power is maou-class. Tannin was holding back, otherwise not only the hall party, but even Issei and co would have disappeared.

Do you need a stat sheet? ItÂ’s not necessary, Fenrir being a fighter-hand-to-hand is specialised in statics as Speed, Agility ecc. He was a top 10 in every parameter.

Just predict the trajectories? If was easy, for which reason Fenrir against tannin disappeared at god-speed, defeating him easily? No one seen his movements.
The way to charge is the same of Issei or Sairaorg, but Issei during the first meet was having problems with the speed, as for Sairaorg vs Kiba, Rossweisse and Xenovia.

To see someone so fast, first you should have the reflects to avoid his assault. The canon does not assume what I say?

If you are in a certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but it depends from your way to fight, because if you are a magician as Rias/Akeno, your psychical strength with things as Speed are inferior than a fighter hand-to-hand of the same level. But sometime this is not valid for guys as Vali/Kiba.

Only Because Belial is the champions, he has S in everything? But Fenrir 80% no? If Yu-long who is at the level of CxC could avoid Fenrir, Issei had to do the same with Belial.

IÂ’ve said that Kiba being specialised in speed can be so fast, but in baseÂ’s form is only faster than CxC, not equal to P DxD. ThatÂ’s means that his speed was not top 10, while Issei yes. Only with the booster he overpasses Issei. But if Kiba could blitz him with a little gap between them in speed. Issei had to do the same with Kiba no booster.

Certainly, in three volumes he makes a so big jump in baseÂ’s speed? But in a lot of months he canÂ’t?

Frankly you was the same that gave me right time ago.

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

It has not been mentioned to become maou-class or over, so is still ultimate-class as well, however it’s not relevant. Kiba’s speed was over maou-class and if could compete with P DxD, it would be easy blitz him.

Again, Fenrir speciality was the the physical strength in speed, agility and resistance being the only way to fight using the fans and clowns. Furthermore it is 80% in every statistic, not only raw power, but even speed.

Or you Sairaorg btb who is specialised in raw power is faster than a 80% fenfir? Or Yu-long has better reaction time to avoid his attacks, when is inferior in every statics.

Again, Issei CxC could not even move a single finger against Belial for the power gap, as for the fact he was way faster than him. But I do not think Belial is specialised in speed as Kiba, but only because is maou-class in every statistic. Now for which Reason Yu-long could avoid Fenrir attacks at 80%? Certainly the gap between them is far bigger than CxC vol20 vs Belial.

If you are as Issei or however a character specialised in fight hand to hand, but able to use even demoniac power/aura, every your statistic is of the class of which you belong.
Yu-long is ultimate-class in everything, Fenrir 80% is far above in everything than him.

But issei is not a tank with standard speed, Issei is heavenly dragon class in attack, defense, speed, otherwise would have not even been able to fight Vidar.
Except what you said it’s valid only for Vali and Kiba, they are the only abnormal in speed without count the class. In every other character if you have a class higher than another one, you are better in everything, but usually statics as Speed/physical strength depends from your way to fight.

God-speed is something that since the beginning is present, but there is a big difference among the god-speed of other character used later. There is difference among god-speed of Kiba of vol1/2 and 10 for example.

But Kiba’s speed is only higher than Issei P DxD in booster, without them the difference among them is gigant even in speed, but Issei could not blitz him, but when the difference was smaller, Kiba could blitz issei.

From the very beginning I think you are having a very big misunderstanding on where will you categorized Kiba and what you will use as reference to estimate his power level.
I think you're using the wrong reference to judge how powerful Kiba is as you're using power types as reference . You shouldn't use power types as a reference since Kiba is not that type of fighter since he is fighter who mainly focuses on speed and his techniques .Basically you should use guys like Arthur, Cao Cao as a reference since they are the guys who are more or less or at least similar to Kiba one way or another .In short guys like Kiba, Cao Cao and Arthur's power shouldn't be judged based on their raw power but instead their overall combat strength or their strength in combat.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

His consume of pawns was only 5 like guys as Saji and Nakiri. So even Kuroka should not be more Ultimate-class after all the fights? Tannin only in pure power, maybe traduced in raw power is maou-class. Tannin was holding back, otherwise not only the hall party, but even Issei and co would have disappeared.

Do you need a stat sheet? ItÂ’s not necessary, Fenrir being a fighter-hand-to-hand is specialised in statics as Speed, Agility ecc. He was a top 10 in every parameter.

Just predict the trajectories? If was easy, for which reason Fenrir against tannin disappeared at god-speed, defeating him easily? No one seen his movements.
The way to charge is the same of Issei or Sairaorg, but Issei during the first meet was having problems with the speed, as for Sairaorg vs Kiba, Rossweisse and Xenovia.

To see someone so fast, first you should have the reflects to avoid his assault. The canon does not assume what I say?

If you are in a certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but it depends from your way to fight, because if you are a magician as Rias/Akeno, your psychical strength with things as Speed are inferior than a fighter hand-to-hand of the same level. But sometime this is not valid for guys as Vali/Kiba.

Only Because Belial is the champions, he has S in everything? But Fenrir 80% no? If Yu-long who is at the level of CxC could avoid Fenrir, Issei had to do the same with Belial.

IÂ’ve said that Kiba being specialised in speed can be so fast, but in baseÂ’s form is only faster than CxC, not equal to P DxD. ThatÂ’s means that his speed was not top 10, while Issei yes. Only with the booster he overpasses Issei. But if Kiba could blitz him with a little gap between them in speed. Issei had to do the same with Kiba no booster.

Certainly, in three volumes he makes a so big jump in baseÂ’s speed? But in a lot of months he canÂ’t?

Frankly you was the same that gave me right time ago.

the pawn consumed is inconsistent in this series and is always what the plot needs, look at strada who consumed only one knight but was rekting rias group even as an old man.

so was bikou? neither were really giving their all

because tannin is a jobber, he has lost practically every fight he has been. issei got problems back then because apparently he was not even ultimate-class back then, even sairaorg could blitz his shit and he was still slower than even kiba.

you are again assuming yu long cant do exactly that, cao cao who has much less experience could predict attacks from vali and azazel whit no problem via aura reading, yu long who was whit sun wukong (who also was shown doing this) on his youth probably knew the same trick too.

i did not say the opposite though? i said that issei is heavenly dragon-class in speed... but so is kiba in base, and whit boosters he is above that.

yu long is a dragon king whit hundreds of years of experience dodging a wolf who attacks on a instinctual way, issei is a guy who barely had 1 year of experience dodging someone superior to him in everything, whit much more experience and probably who is also a technique type that he has trouble whit. this is the same guy who could not land a hit on kiba back when he got BxB, he is not hard to deal whit as long as you are near his level (or in this case way above) and dont rush in like an idiot.

yes, emphasis on you said, not the story, the story shows him being top 10 speed in base. between his fight whit the vali team and his fight whit issei there were 2 volumes in-between, its not a stretch to think he got better.

its a basic shonen rule, characters are not allowed to get stronger than the story allows, think of all those shonen stories where the protagonist trained for 10 years before the story starts but once its on screen he gets 10x better results in a week. it makes no fucking sense, but neither did anything whit vali, or whit rias, or whit sairaorg, or rossweisse. plot force is not an alien concept to this series

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

the pawn consumed is inconsistent in this series and is always what the plot needs, look at strada who consumed only one knight but was rekting rias group even as an old man.

so was bikou? neither were really giving their all

because tannin is a jobber, he has lost practically every fight he has been. issei got problems back then because apparently he was not even ultimate-class back then, even sairaorg could blitz his shit and he was still slower than even kiba.

you are again assuming yu long cant do exactly that, cao cao who has much less experience could predict attacks from vali and azazel whit no problem via aura reading, yu long who was whit sun wukong (who also was shown doing this) on his youth probably knew the same trick too.

i did not say the opposite though? i said that issei is heavenly dragon-class in speed... but so is kiba in base, and whit boosters he is above that.

yu long is a dragon king whit hundreds of years of experience dodging a wolf who attacks on a instinctual way, issei is a guy who barely had 1 year of experience dodging someone superior to him in everything, whit much more experience and probably who is also a technique type that he has trouble whit. this is the same guy who could not land a hit on kiba back when he got BxB, he is not hard to deal whit as long as you are near his level (or in this case way above) and dont rush in like an idiot.

yes, emphasis on you said, not the story, the story shows him being top 10 speed in base. between his fight whit the vali team and his fight whit issei there were 2 volumes in-between, its not a stretch to think he got better.

its a basic shonen rule, characters are not allowed to get stronger than the story allows, think of all those shonen stories where the protagonist trained for 10 years before the story starts but once its on screen he gets 10x better results in a week. it makes no fucking sense, but neither did anything whit vali, or whit rias, or whit sairaorg, or rossweisse. plot force is not an alien concept to this series

But Cao Cao could because it’s an extremely skilled technique type who could read the aura’s movements of Armour’s fighters. Yu-Long no. Even Fenrir is a wolf with centuries of experience and else.

The only moment Sairaorg could blitz Issei was vol9 where he was overshadowing Issei in everything having seals yet. After that in vol10 they were both equal. The story and other proves confirmed he was ultimate-class.

Okay, but if Kiba’s speed is actually Top 10 in base form, he would have killed in one second Sonneilon, with no one able to notice him.

Yeah, basically the plot armour is something very linked with DxD.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

But Cao Cao could because it’s an extremely skilled technique type who could read the aura’s movements of Armour’s fighters. Yu-Long no. Even Fenrir is a wolf with centuries of experience and else.

The only moment Sairaorg could blitz Issei was vol9 where he was overshadowing Issei in everything having seals yet. After that in vol10 they were both equal. The story and other proves confirmed he was ultimate-class.

Okay, but if Kiba’s speed is actually Top 10 in base form, he would have killed in one second Sonneilon, with no one able to notice him.

Yeah, basically the plot armour is something very linked with DxD.

yu long was there whit sun wukong during his travels and sun wukong clearly knows that technique too, i dont think its a stretch to think yu long knows it too since he has been friends whit the guy who mastered it for quite some time. wasn't fenrir chained before DxD like in the myths to wait until ragnarok? and fenrir himself says he was becoming loki slave so i dont think its a stretch to think he was controlling him in some way.

yeah, kiba probably could of killed sonnelion back then, kiba probably could've killed all the artificial devils in a minute in the fight whit erebus. but he is not the protagonist, he cant do that kind of cool shit not to mention that the story would of be much more boring if he was allowed to show off. the whole volume would of been "and then kiba blitzed him too and decapitated him" over and over again, which frankly is not fun.

hell the whole fight in kyoto would've ended too if characters remembered that they can do AoE attacks or if issei actually used penetrate more often.

[Itsmepatrick]

Yeah I agree and Kiba and the others are more or less handicapped in that fight since the barrier was just a sloppy one so Kiba and the others power output are more less restrained since there's a very big chance the barrier will break if they carelessly use their power and techniques so its understandable that Kiba can't kill Sonneilon back then in their fight even though he is capable of doing it.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Yeah I agree and Kiba and the others are more or less handicapped in that fight since the barrier was just a sloppy one so Kiba and the others power output are more less restrained since there's a very big chance the barrier will break if they carelessly use their power and techniques so its understandable that Kiba can't kill Sonneilon back then in their fight even though he is capable of doing it.

While Kiba is strong he has shown no powerful attacks of his own like Extinguish Star, CrossxCrisis, or Crimson Blaster. Kiba or anyone else besides Issei, Rias, Akeno, or Xenovia being nerfed makes no sense at all. Unless Kiba had a stupidly strong attack with Gram he could have used that we had yet to see, there was nothing to suggest he was holding back considering that Kiba heavily focuses on speed and technique in his fights.

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

While Kiba is strong he has shown no powerful attacks of his own like Extinguish Star, CrossxCrisis, or Crimson Blaster. Kiba or anyone else besides Issei, Rias, Akeno, or Xenovia being nerfed makes no sense at all. Unless Kiba had a stupidly strong attack with Gram he could have used that we had yet to see, there was nothing to suggest he was holding back considering that Kiba heavily focuses on speed and technique in his fights.

I think you are having a big misunderstanding here. You shouldn't compare or use power types like Xenovia and Issei as a reference to assess the full extent of Kiba's combat strength as he is a Pure Technique type of fighter contrary to Issei and Xenovia who were both Power types. If anything you should use guys like Vritra, Cao Cao or Tobio as they're the ones who have some similarities to Kiba's fighting style as they either use Speed,ability or Techniques as as the core of their fighting style. For example you have Vritra there he is not renowned for his power but through his techniques he became a Dragon King . There's also Cao Cao through his pure technique fighting style defeated guys like Azazel(in Downfall Dragon Armor), Vali in his Balance Breaker and Sonneilon who were Satan class fighters. Then lastly Tobio who uses speed plus the abilities of his Balance Breaker and his abyss-side Balance Breaker to defeat Executive class Grimm Reaper and Gressil who were also Satan class in strength in short theyre the ones you used as they're the ones who are more or less similar to Kiba.

But well in terms of power output he can unleash powerful attacks using the technique taught to him by Strada where he releases vast amount of aura at the moment of impact adding to that the technique he used wherein he coat the Gram with his Holy-Demonic Aura to release powerful attack so there's no issue for Kiba in that regard. The proof of that was the fight with Bikou where he overpowered him and he even cut his Ruyi Bang in that fight.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

I think you are having a big misunderstanding here. You shouldn't compare or use power types like Xenovia and Issei as a reference to assess the full extent of Kiba's combat strength as he is a Pure Technique type of fighter contrary to Issei and Xenovia who were both Power types. If anything you should use guys like Vritra, Cao Cao or Tobio as they're the ones who have some similarities to Kiba's fighting style as they either use Speed,ability or Techniques as as the core of their fighting style. For example you have Vritra there he is not renowned for his power but through his techniques he became a Dragon King . There's also Cao Cao through his pure technique fighting style defeated guys like Azazel(in Downfall Dragon Armor), Vali in his Balance Breaker and Sonneilon who were Satan class fighters. Then lastly Tobio who uses speed plus the abilities of his Balance Breaker and his abyss-side Balance Breaker to defeat Executive class Grimm Reaper and Gressil who were also Satan class in strength in short theyre the ones you used as they're the ones who are more or less similar to Kiba.

But well in terms of power output he can unleash powerful attacks using the technique taught to him by Strada where he releases vast amount of aura at the moment of impact adding to that the technique he used wherein he coat the Gram with his Holy-Demonic Aura to release powerful attack so there's no issue for Kiba in that regard. The proof of that was the fight with Bikou where he overpowered him and he even cut his Ruyi Bang in that fight.

So what does any of that have to do with my post? I said how was Kiba nerfed in Yasaka's barrier? I know he has destructive attacks but does he have anything powerful to the point where he couldn't use it in Yasaka's barrier? You said Kiba is a technique-type and focuses on his speed and technique so how exactly was he nerfed in Yasaka's barrier considering that the only thing being prevented there were very powerful attacks that would destroy it hence why Issei couldn't use DxD in there.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

So what does any of that have to do with my post? I said how was Kiba nerfed in Yasaka's barrier? I know he has destructive attacks but does he have anything powerful to the point where he couldn't use it in Yasaka's barrier? You said Kiba is a technique-type and focuses on his speed and technique so how exactly was he nerfed in Yasaka's barrier considering that the only thing being prevented there were very powerful attacks that would destroy it hence why Issei couldn't use DxD in there.

For the fact his base’s speed is higher than maou-class and could compete with P DxD? But could not kill someone a lot of slower than him with a blitz?

Or has not even used the booster to kill Gressil and Sonneilon in a second?

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

So what does any of that have to do with my post? I said how was Kiba nerfed in Yasaka's barrier? I know he has destructive attacks but does he have anything powerful to the point where he couldn't use it in Yasaka's barrier? You said Kiba is a technique-type and focuses on his speed and technique so how exactly was he nerfed in Yasaka's barrier considering that the only thing being prevented there were very powerful attacks that would destroy it hence why Issei couldn't use DxD in there.

Kiba was not nerfed in that it was more of he was handicapped in that fight and he couldn't use his techniques and power output necessary to defeat Sonneilon at that time as he was worried that the barrier made by Yasaka might break. In short he couldn't go all out Kiba even damaged the barrier at time here's some of what happen in that fight in Shin volume 3 :

The Holy Demonic swords below him were curled up into balls, but —Only then he understood Kiba’s true motive and paid attention to the things that were happening right behind Kiba. A crackling sound that shook the whole atmosphere. From another space, the handle of the Demonic Emperor Sword — Gram could be seen showing itself. Gram then suddenly dove into Kiba’s hand as if responding to its master’s will. Kiba grabbed the handle and swung Gram, which was endowed with an overwhelming Demonic aura, sideways. —That should’ve been the case, but—

“Don!”

Sonneillon lowered his body and targeted Kiba’s feet which made his right feet lose its footing. Kiba, whose stance was broken, missed Sonneillon’s head by just a little bit. Gram which was swung released an ominous aura faraway, cutting several buildings in half! Gram! As unbelievably sharp as ever!

However—.

“…Urgh…”

Yasaka-san, who created this pseudo-space in a rush, let out a voice of agony whilst keeping the seal …Gram’s destructive power must’ve damaged this space. Kiba, who realized this, weakened Gram’s shockwave. This meant Kiba couldn’t go full strength in this place either. It also didn’t seem like Rias would be able to fire her [Extinguish Star], but Rias should also know this. Kiba fixed his stance and took a distance from Sonneillon. As he did, he boldly smiled upon looking at Sonneillon’s panicked face.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Kiba was not nerfed in that it was more of he was handicapped in that fight and he couldn't use his techniques and power output necessary to defeat Sonneilon at that time as he was worried that the barrier made by Yasaka might break. In short he couldn't go all out Kiba even damaged the barrier at time here's some of what happen in that fight in Shin volume 3 :

The Holy Demonic swords below him were curled up into balls, but —Only then he understood Kiba’s true motive and paid attention to the things that were happening right behind Kiba. A crackling sound that shook the whole atmosphere. From another space, the handle of the Demonic Emperor Sword — Gram could be seen showing itself. Gram then suddenly dove into Kiba’s hand as if responding to its master’s will. Kiba grabbed the handle and swung Gram, which was endowed with an overwhelming Demonic aura, sideways. —That should’ve been the case, but—

“Don!”

Sonneillon lowered his body and targeted Kiba’s feet which made his right feet lose its footing. Kiba, whose stance was broken, missed Sonneillon’s head by just a little bit. Gram which was swung released an ominous aura faraway, cutting several buildings in half! Gram! As unbelievably sharp as ever!

However—.

“…Urgh…”

Yasaka-san, who created this pseudo-space in a rush, let out a voice of agony whilst keeping the seal …Gram’s destructive power must’ve damaged this space. Kiba, who realized this, weakened Gram’s shockwave. This meant Kiba couldn’t go full strength in this place either. It also didn’t seem like Rias would be able to fire her [Extinguish Star], but Rias should also know this. Kiba fixed his stance and took a distance from Sonneillon. As he did, he boldly smiled upon looking at Sonneillon’s panicked face.

Oh thanks for that. That was my bad. Should've remembered that(to be honest the whole volume was rather forgettable to me).

[Itsmepatrick]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

For the fact his base’s speed is higher than maou-class and could compete with P DxD? But could not kill someone a lot of slower than him with a blitz?

Or has not even used the booster to kill Gressil and Sonneilon in a second?

It's useless even if Kiba has god like speed at that time if he couldn even use the techniques necessary to Defeat Sonneilon. I'll give you a similar case or at least something close to. Remember the fight of Issei and Nimura in Volume DX.4 even though Nimura has the upperhand in terms of speed as it's obvious in that fight that she is faster than Issei in CxC she still can't inflict damage due to her not having the power,ability or technique to defeat Issei in CxC. What Im trying to say is not because you have speed doesn't mean you can already easily kill someone slower than you in a second .Also you have to consider many things in that fight with such as Sonneilon's power,defense,techniques etc.. There's also the possibility of Sonneilon going berserk and the possibility of the barrier being destroyed due to it. Remember in that fight Kiba succeeded in angering Sonneilon and Sonneilon and he was about to remove his limiter to his power if not for Cao Cao and the others arriving.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

It's useless even if Kiba has god like speed at that time if he couldn even use the techniques necessary to Defeat Sonneilon. I'll give you a similar case or at least something close to. Remember the fight of Issei and Nimura in Volume DX.4 even though Nimura has the upperhand in terms of speed as it's obvious in that fight that she is faster than Issei in CxC she still can't inflict damage due to her not having the power,ability or technique to defeat Issei in CxC. What Im trying to say is not because you have speed doesn't mean you can already easily kill someone slower than you in a second .Also you have to consider many things in that fight with such as Sonneilon's power,defense,techniques etc.. There's also the possibility of Sonneilon going berserk and the possibility of the barrier being destroyed due to it. Remember in that fight Kiba succeeded in angering Sonneilon and Sonneilon and he was about to remove his limiter to his power if not for Cao Cao and the others arriving.

But which techniques? To behead someone it’s not necessary use a powerful attack for Kiba. I remember you Kiba can use Vasco’s technique that does not damage the field.

What? How you can not kill someone slower than you? Kiba if was not for the plot may kill in one seconds a lot of characters. Sonneilon has not an instinct as Crom. Kiba’s base speed was equal to P DxD. He can damage issei’s armour, is enough like prove to kill easily a not true maou-class. Especially Gressil.

Issei only expelling Ascalon from the gauntlet could damage seriously Erebus, for which reason Kiba, a swordmaster can not slash in one second them?

It’s enough only move your sword and cut him. Easily for Kiba at god-speed.