(L) World Trigger [Manga]

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by James Rye

Well, english translation is out now at some sites. Looks like Ninomiya does have quite a prideful and kind of obnouxious side to himself, all that counts to him is personal power and skill, the way how "small-fry" like Osamu or Chika fights with is of no interest to him and not worth of any praise. While I understand his position I feel like he is way too hard on those two who became B-rank just recently.

I think he has a different perspective from Izumi. Izumi looks at the potential of Tamakoma 2, so he looks at their strengths. Ninomiya looks at how they are now, and he's not impressed. Sort of "when they mature and overcome their flaws, they'll be strong" vs "they won't be strong as long as they don't overcome their flaws".

That difference in perspective may also be due to the fact that Izumi won't have to face them any time soon, while to Ninomiya, they're his next opponents.

I hope we get to see Nasu and Murakami in B rank wars again, they're very awesome with their fighting styles! Ofc not due Tamakoma 2 dropping down to Mid tier but due them raising up to upper tier someday as well. XD

I think I'd like them to lose. Force them to address their weaknesses instead of just compensating for them.

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I think he has a different perspective from Izumi. Izumi looks at the potential of Tamakoma 2, so he looks at their strengths. Ninomiya looks at how they are now, and he's not impressed. Sort of "when they mature and overcome their flaws, they'll be strong" vs "they won't be strong as long as they don't overcome their flaws".

That difference in perspective may also be due to the fact that Izumi won't have to face them any time soon, while to Ninomiya, they're his next opponents.

I agree.

Maybe this is due the nuance is lost in translation from Japanese to English. But, it seems that the fandom find Ninomiya really arrogant because he underestimated Takamoma when Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are singing praises of Osamu. This is wrong. Though not because Ninomiya is not rude about Osamu because he is rude. But this is wrong because Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are looking down on Osamu as well. Case to point: they use the word "dirty/disgusting" when describing Osamu's strategy and they use the word "villain" when describing Osamu and the word "nasty/bad" when describing Osamu's personality. In short, their choice of words are 50% praise 50% insult. If translated literally in english, they sound weird (it's hard to describe, but english is straightforward while japanese is passive aggressive when insulting). Because most derogatory words in English are 100% insult, rather than 50% praise, 50% insult, most english translations decided to change the remarks into 100% praise.

IMHO Izumi and Tachikawa look down on Osamu. Ninomiya (being Tamakoma's next opponent) is just open about it (just doing so rudely, like Kikuchihara).

[Anh_Minh]

Interesting. Derogatory in what way?

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Interesting. Derogatory in what way?

It's like calling someone in english "filthy rich". Rich is a praise, filthy is an insult. So it's 50% praise, 50% insult, as in sure he's rich, but he uses dirty methods to get rich. You get the gist.

[James Rye]

Basically they are saying Osamu needs dirty tricks to win his fights and they don't because unlike him they got real skills.

I'd like to see Tamakoma 2 lose as well, probably because it is high time for that. 3 victories in a row are nice, but they all got won mostly due Yuuma being so amazingly strong. Osamu and Chika got only one point themselves and that point was practically served on a silver plate to Osamu.
Ofc Osamu's plans and Chika's support are needed and without them Yuuma on his own would have never made it to Rank 5 of the B teams, but border people won't see that. What they see is a sniper girl who doesn't or cannot shot as human targets and a four-eyes who runs around a lot but gets done in in 3 seconds in his first 1-1 fight and that against a wounded and exhausted opponent.
So yeah, Yuuma overshadows his friends by far and to right. But I think that gonna cost him in the next battle and he will be the first to get taken down from Tamakoma 2, which similar to Suzunari 1 almost guarantess Tamakoma 2's loss.

Also I think the bail out option will play a bigger focus in the top tier fights than the low or mid ones due them all being so close to each other in points. Each point less given to your opponent is a point gained to keep your position so to say.

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by James Rye

Basically they are saying Osamu needs dirty tricks to win his fights and they don't because unlike him they got real skills.

Yeah, something in this line. On the one hand, they frown upon Osamu's use of dirty tricks. On the other hand, they admire Osamu's willingness to throw out sportsmanship/morality for the sake of victory/rank.

To quote Izumi, Osamu's way of fighting is "nicely disgusting" (sounds weird in English, right?).

[Anh_Minh]

"Cunning", then.

Though Izumi's in a bit of glass house, considering how they fought Ranbanein. And how he suggested destroying civilian houses just to flush out Arashiyama.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I think I'd like them to lose. Force them to address their weaknesses instead of just compensating for them.

Compensating for their weaknesses is addressing their weaknesses. It may not eliminate the weakness, but it's certainly not ignoring the weakness either.

And generally speaking, the team's weaknesses are that:

1) Chika is a complete rookie, who can't reliably snipe a person sized target outside of a range yet, nor is her maneuvering up to par.
2) Osamu's trion supply is marginal, and his skill while better than it was, really isn't above low B-rank level.

The solution to all of that is "more experience and training". Which is pretty much what this arc is about. Yes it's pretty much a tournament arc, but it's also a training arc. It's the best experience and training all three of them can get, and it forces them to deal with their weaknesses, and pick up new tricks.

A loss isn't going to tell them anything this last fight didn't tell them. Osamu went into this round with the warning that if he could only rely on Yuma, they wouldn't get past B-rank. The match certain confirmed it for him. Osamu knows how close a fight it was, and he's the one that failed to take out Nasu. Getting crushed in a match involving the #1 and #2 B-rank squads isn't going to be some revelation of inadequacy.

That said, I'm expecting something more along the lines of a partial victory for the next match. Such as picking up enough points to maintain their place or advance, but not being the last ones standing.

Originally Posted by p-kun

I agree.

Maybe this is due the nuance is lost in translation from Japanese to English. But, it seems that the fandom find Ninomiya really arrogant because he underestimated Takamoma when Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are singing praises of Osamu. This is wrong. Though not because Ninomiya is not rude about Osamu because he is rude. But this is wrong because Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are looking down on Osamu as well. Case to point: they use the word "dirty/disgusting" when describing Osamu's strategy and they use the word "villain" when describing Osamu and the word "nasty/bad" when describing Osamu's personality. In short, their choice of words are 50% praise 50% insult. If translated literally in english, they sound weird (it's hard to describe, but english is straightforward while japanese is passive aggressive when insulting). Because most derogatory words in English are 100% insult, rather than 50% praise, 50% insult, most english translations decided to change the remarks into 100% praise.

IMHO Izumi and Tachikawa look down on Osamu. Ninomiya (being Tamakoma's next opponent) is just open about it (just doing so rudely, like Kikuchihara).

It's hard to say given that the scanlation available for 103 is a really poor translation, and the official translation won't be out for a couple more days.

In the meantime, I'd say that Jin/Izumi are basically calling Osamu a cunning bastard. Yes they're technically insulting him personally, but they're acknowledging his skill and results which is the important. Ninomiya on the other hand, seems to be just flat out insulting Osamu, something more along the lines of a simple minded bastard. He's not only insulting Osamu as a person, he's dismissing Osamu's skill and results as mere chance. And he's doing that even though it should be quite clear that Osamu's team is worthy of at least being considered a mid ranking B-rank team.

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

"Cunning", then.

Though Izumi's in a bit of glass house, considering how they fought Ranbanein. And how he suggested destroying civilian houses just to flush out Arashiyama.

Let's see how Viz translate this next week. According to Satori, Izumi fights dirty too and Izumi does seem happy to see Osamu fights dirty.

Originally Posted by Krono

It's hard to say given that the scanlation available for 103 is a really poor translation, and the official translation won't be out for a couple more days.

In the meantime, I'd say that Jin/Izumi are basically calling Osamu a cunning bastard. Yes they're technically insulting him personally, but they're acknowledging his skill and results which is the important.

Official translation also has the same problem. For example, in chapter 102, the very last line. Tachikawa said that Osamu is a villain (again 50% praise, 50% insult), which was translated into something like Osamu would be a great strategist in the future (100% praise).

Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are well known around Border for being dirty themselves. In a sense, they are insulting themselves too. It's like people talking smack of their own countries and say "hey, I'm from that country, so it's ok if I make fun of it." Even more interesting, Izumi mentioned that dirty tricks are expected from someone who almost died before. The only people aside from Osamu who might have gotten almost killed would be the away team (A1, A2, A3 and Tamakoma 1) or someone from the old Border (like Asuma). So, who is this person who almost died that he compared Osamu to? Himself?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Krono

1) Chika is a complete rookie, who can't reliably snipe a person sized target outside of a range yet, nor is her maneuvering up to par.

That, right there: the solution is to have her shoot at people. But in the last fight, she didn't. She was the designated survivor and only shot at things.

Maybe it is smarter, points-wise. And it plays with everyone's worry that she doesn't care about herself enough. But for her long term growth, I think it'd have been better to have her cooperate with Osamu to bring Nasu down.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by p-kun

Official translation also has the same problem. For example, in chapter 102, the very last line. Tachikawa said that Osamu is a villain (again 50% praise, 50% insult), which was translated into something like Osamu would be a great strategist in the future (100% praise).

Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are well known around Border for being dirty themselves. In a sense, they are insulting themselves too. It's like people talking smack of their own countries and say "hey, I'm from that country, so it's ok if I make fun of it." Even more interesting, Izumi mentioned that dirty tricks are expected from someone who almost died before. The only people aside from Osamu who might have gotten almost killed would be the away team (A1, A2, A3 and Tamakoma 1) or someone from the old Border (like Asuma). So, who is this person who almost died that he compared Osamu to? Himself?

The point is that when all is said and done, Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are complimenting Osamu. They way they do so may not be particularly flattering, but they aren't looking down on Osamu and his team, or dismissing their accomplishments. They recognize that Tamakoma-@ has potential.

Ninomiya on the other hand appears to be doing just that. Dismissing Tamakoma-2's accomplishments as a fluke of luck, dismissing their potential as a team, as well as dismissing Osamu and Chika's skills and potential as individuals.

The bottom line is that Ninomiya is being significantly more insulting and dismissive of Tamakoma-2, Osamu, and Chika; than Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That, right there: the solution is to have her shoot at people. But in the last fight, she didn't. She was the designated survivor and only shot at things.

Maybe it is smarter, points-wise. And it plays with everyone's worry that she doesn't care about herself enough. But for her long term growth, I think it'd have been better to have her cooperate with Osamu to bring Nasu down.

The problem is, as you say, encouraging aggressiveness on Chika's part clashes with Osamu, Yuma, and Shiori's attempt to instill a sense of self preservation in Chika. I don't think that's why they haven't had her try an shoot anyone though. I think that's a combination of her not being confident in her skills, and it being more valuable to have her blasting the terrain, and stay safe to avoid giving up points.

Though given the way that Ninomiya seems to think the problem is that Chika's just flat out unable to shoot at people, I suspect we'll Chika shooting people in the next match, just to prove him wrong.

But in general, it's mainly a problem mainly rectified by more training, and the personal rank wars fights are more the place for that, not the team battles.

[Arabesque]

Hm, I think that Chika does require something more drastic than just training to help her be more willing to hurt or shoot others instead of trying to avoid it. I'll have more thoughts once I read 103, but I don't think Chika will be able to just learn to shoot people without there being a strong incentive for her to do so.

Originally Posted by p-kun

Official translation also has the same problem. For example, in chapter 102, the very last line. Tachikawa said that Osamu is a villain (again 50% praise, 50% insult), which was translated into something like Osamu would be a great strategist in the future (100% praise).

Looked to see what Tachikawa says in 102's official version, and it is:

Tachikawa: He reduced the overall risk by allowing Amatori to escape. Then he got greedy and went for the extra point. I see ... He sure is one to watch out for.

I'm guessing the one in bold is what you meant by the 50% praise/condemnation, and I think it comes across as that in Viz's translation. Tachikawa isn't just saying Osamu is going to be a great strategist, but rather that he is someone to keep an eye on (because he is very smart, and that can be a dangerous thing if he faces him as an opponent one day). It's might not be translated literally, but the same message is carried across.

I have my own minor peeves with the official translation (aside from it not being available worldwide, I'm also slightly annoyed at not including honourifics) but thus far, Lillian Olsen's translation had been pretty enjoyable to read and clear to understand. We will see how 103 comes out today and see whether the meaning matches the intent as well.

[FlareKnight]

Some rough, but fair points made at the end of 103 there.

Completely true that right now Chika and Osamu still need to do more and develop further. Chika has simply acted as a bomb and not actually used that power to overwhelm and take down opponents. Still need to see her able to shoot at a person. Osamu had a good plan, but he didn't have enough ability to get that point for himself against Nasu. He needs some sort of step forward. Right now it's all on Kuga and they can only get so far like that. Relying on your Ace has its merits, but the other members need to do enough.

A good chapter and analysis done on the fight as a whole. All the teams had good moments in there. An interesting point made as well about dividing the leader and ace role. Throwing both on one person is a heavy burden and could drag some people down. Having the roles divided lessens the burden so the leader can focus on leading and the ace can focus on being awesome . But some people can handle both jobs.

[p-kun]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I'm guessing the one in bold is what you meant by the 50% praise/condemnation, and I think it comes across as that in Viz's translation. Tachikawa isn't just saying Osamu is going to be a great strategist, but rather that he is someone to keep an eye on (because he is very smart, and that can be a dangerous thing if he faces him as an opponent one day). It's might not be translated literally, but the same message is carried across.

I read that line as 100% praise. But if you find that line get the nuance across correctly, then it's good.

Originally Posted by Krono

The point is that when all is said and done, Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi are complimenting Osamu. They way they do so may not be particularly flattering, but they aren't looking down on Osamu and his team, or dismissing their accomplishments. They recognize that Tamakoma-@ has potential.

I don't disagree with what you say. But we were talking about the nuance about Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi's characters. For example, if Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi fully compliment Osamu, they'll say that Osamu's strategy is "nice" not "nicely disgusting". In a sense, this choice of word is interesting, and it tells that Jin/Tachikawa/Izumi put Osamu in a lower pedestal (for the time being) than Asuma and Kodera, who were 100% praise about Osamu in the last match.

More about nuance, I think Jin refusing to call Osamu with his name is a plot point. Jin has no excuse not remembering. It is very rude actually, moreso with Japanese polite culture as a backdrop.

Originally Posted by Krono

But in general, it's mainly a problem mainly rectified by more training, and the personal rank wars fights are more the place for that, not the team battles.

I disagree. Chika was good at head-shooting immobile target in training room. But during invasion, she couldn't even shoot a rabit's head that was immobile at point blank range because she couldn't calm her nerves. Team battles are the perfect time to train your skill in high tension situation. Moreso because snipers don't really participate in personal rank fights IIRC. They have different system than the front liners.

[KBTKaiser]

The thing with Jin and Osamu go back to when Osamu tried to break into Border HQ and was caught in the containment zone when a neighbor appeared right on top of him. Jin was the one who bailed him out and said, "Isn't the night quiet again, megane-kun?"

[Axyp]

Anyone here watching the anime have a feeling you want to drop it?

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by Axyp

Anyone here watching the anime have a feeling you want to drop it?

Nope, all manga adaptations will be different and i still want to see Nasu team animated.

[Iby]

Nope, it was really bad in the first half but improved quite a bit in the second. At least they've decided to change the slow pacing for the big previous episode recap parts in the beginning of the episodes. I'd rather watch the shorter episode than look at everybody's reactions for a several minutes.

[James Rye]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Some rough, but fair points made at the end of 103 there.

Completely true that right now Chika and Osamu still need to do more and develop further. Chika has simply acted as a bomb and not actually used that power to overwhelm and take down opponents. Still need to see her able to shoot at a person. Osamu had a good plan, but he didn't have enough ability to get that point for himself against Nasu. He needs some sort of step forward. Right now it's all on Kuga and they can only get so far like that. Relying on your Ace has its merits, but the other members need to do enough.

A good chapter and analysis done on the fight as a whole. All the teams had good moments in there. An interesting point made as well about dividing the leader and ace role. Throwing both on one person is a heavy burden and could drag some people down. Having the roles divided lessens the burden so the leader can focus on leading and the ace can focus on being awesome . But some people can handle both jobs.

Yeah, we got a positive and a negative review of this battle though i think it is done under different perspectives. Tachikawa sees mostly the potential while Ninomiya sees mostly what's lacking. And then both analysis make sense and have arguments to back themselves up.

I really really REALLY hope next match Chika will finally get a point by herself! Same for Osamu, the Suwa point he got was basically served on a silver plate by Yuuma. He still has to get a point by himself in a 1-1 although as seen with Nasu he gets done in immediately by "A"ces of B teams, so perhaps he should look for easier targets he can fight by himself.
Still think they gonna lose against Ninomiya and Kaegura and Azuma with his tactics might be the darkhorse of this match whereas Tamakoma 2 clearly is the underdog in this set-up. Hopefully they won't get beaten back to mid tiers already, that would be sort of dishearting. With a couple points they should be able to stay in the top tiers with its 7th rank and have another chance to prove themselves in a top tier match.

Tachikawa is such an Ace leader who can do both his ace duty and leadership ones. There's a reason why he is overall Nr1, Nr1 attacker and leader of A-rank team Nr1, it's that he is just so darn good. And quite laidback too, I like his easy-going personality, reminds me a lot of Jin but a Jin who holds more responsibilities and is more battle-crazy.^^

Originally Posted by Axyp

Anyone here watching the anime have a feeling you want to drop it?

Nah, I have seen worse animes (yes, that's possible) so I got a thick skin in regards to some badly animated episodes. That and the story and chara progressing evens out the sometimes weird pauses or wonky animation. Plus the battle scenes are mostly nicely done and very enjoyable.

Also cover for volume 11 is out! I hope that one makes it over 250k before it drops out of the Oricon rankings, would be another achievement for WT.



Lolz! Who the hell would have expected to see Suwa on the vol.11 cover? XD
I sure didn't! Thought Murakami or Nasu would get the cover but Suwa sure is a surprise for me. Maybe that means we will see more of him and his team in future fights? Then again he or his team hasn't been used yet for a chapter title unlike Murakami and Nasu, right? Well, I wouldn't mind seeing more of him and his trigger-happy fingers.^^

[LG-MAX 2.o]

vol 11 cover