Shin High School DxD Volume 4 Discussion

[Hakai]

I demand promotion for Ryuuteimaru, as the new chief God of Norse mythology.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

The rating are essentially war like games where combat is heavily needed. Tactics holds a significant importance just like in real battles. My point is without guidance, Issei would fall for traps like he would in real battles.

The only time Riser didn't take Rias seriously is when he fought her personally because he could regenerate. Look at the outcome. Despite Rias not having her peerage completed, Riser lost nearly his entire peerage and Yubela was forced to use a Pheonix tear. In vol. 5, Sona had rules that favored her team while Rias didn't have that against Riser.

Rias did very well against Sairaorg. Sending Kiba first for an early victory, followed by Rose and Koneko and then sent Issei to win his fight despite the countermeasures Sairaorg had against his lewd nature. Furthermore, Rias sent Rose, Kiba and Xenovia to weaken Sairaorg to set him up for Issei and forced him to use a Pheonix tear. Yes, Rias couldn't beat Regulus but then again, who could besides Issei?

Shin vol. 2 isn't first game that Issei started off without wearing armor. He did this in vol. 22 and in vol. 25. The difference is Rias wasn't going to give him time to transform hence the surprise attack. To which she even caught Ravel by surprise as she didn't expect it. As for personal honor and willingness of the members. This is nothing new. Vidar set up the match where he could fight Issei 1 on 1. Issei went against Ravel's plan of wanting to fight Saji, Xenovia wanted to fight Sona.

The host was listening to the criticsÂ’ opinions.

“Under ordinary rules, Hyoudou Issei-shi [1] relies on sheer power to supress his opponents with light blasts, but under the special rules, his actions are actually unfavourable. It is evident that Hyoudou Issei-shi, who has attained various honours in actual combat does not actually have a very good understanding of the Rating Game as it is an entirely different thing.”

<<There have been similar matches in the Rating Games of the Underworld in the past; even when a lower ranked team with a large power gap between a higher ranked team are set against each other, lower ranked teams have been able to destroy an equal number of items to the other team, and then engage in a defensive battle until time runs out to successfully draw a tie. This subversion of expectations and the plethora of limitless possibilities is one of the charms of this game.>>

Certainly, games where you have to search items in a big field or try to do goal with a ball is the same thing?
In true fights, you can use the best tactic of ever but if your opponent is too strong, you will defeated, but in rating games this can change. If the Rating game against Sona and Rias would have been a true fight, sona would be destroyed easily even with the best strategy of ever.

Show me how issei would lose in the true fights without a guide, please because all the most important fights has been won by him with a his personal strategy or using the raw power.
Rivezim, Grendel, Cao Cao ecc have been defeated for riasÂ’ leadership, true?

Please, read again the volume 2 because you have not understood nothing. Riser never did take RiasÂ’ peerage seriously. And read what I have written because you are saying things not true.

Riser starts laughing after Buchou answers him as if he finds it amusing.
“Then this match will be a laugh. Only your [Queen], the “Priestess of Thunder” can fight on par with my adorable servants.”

Since the beginning, for him the rating was a joke, the fact that gived to Rias 10 ten days to train issei. And how is relevant the Phoenix tear? Like Rias had Asia, RiserÂ’s peerage has the Phoenix tear.
Do you forget that all those players eliminated was for the major part pawns of low level and Riser did not use a strategy?
Issei and Kiba would be destroyed by the others players if issei would have not unlocked transfer, a thing that Rias did not know. For riser was not important lose all the peerage because he could not be defeated.

And you missing my point about Rias who fights riser in a 1vs1 without any strategy, knowing that was impossible win and without try to weaker him. All of this has been thought by issei, a rookie.

are irrelevant the rules, Rias has not been able to contrast sonaÂ’s strategy, every movement of her peerage has been predicted by Sona.
The fault is of the king, this is way they have obtained a low evaluation in part.

What did Rias with Sairaorg is nothing of so amazing to show her ability like a leader, and have to predict that the mistero pawn was a lot of dangerous. And for her fault, they were to lose the rating, without do nothing to cover the difference of power.

You are right for vol22, but issei can wear in one second the armour and knowing how much is dangerous Balor Rias, it is stupid when he weared in one second it when Baraqiel appeared from far.

Vol25
<<START!>>

We started to run just as the commentator shouted out!

First, we split up into two groups. One group would run up the spiral staircase and the other would fly while passing over the floating islands. By not bunching up in one place, we would also avoid a single large attack against the entire team. As a [King], the game would end if I were to be defeated, and I began to run up the stairs. This was only a temporary plan. Whilst I did think about flying through the sky, I chose to take the stairs to begin with after the situation. The ones who took the stairs were Irina, Xenovia, Rossweisse-san, Ravel, Ouryuu, and myself, the group which comparatively consisted of those who had confidence in their stamina. I quickly transformed into my crimson armour.

He wearred initially the armour, when he had to climb the stairs and not fight, this is stupidly of the plot.

Are not even comparable the fights Vidar vs issei or Saji and Sona vs Xenovia with my point.
Vidar wanted to fight with issei because he was the only interesting opponent and wanted to fight with a heavenly dragon and to better the rapport among issei and rossweisse.

With Saji, IsseiÂ’s team had already won and was impossible lose, especially for issei with Saji in a fight, Xenovia could fight with Sona because the victory of the match was of her team.

With Rias, with the surprise attack, she had a big opportunity to win easily, especially because Ddraig needs 8 minutes to appear and make a big difference. But she gived to Ravel the possibility to reorganise them and run, while if she would have sent Crom with Kiba to fight issei or even her with Crom, they would win but she preferred the honor and the will to a secure victory.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by AzazelDxD

Saji and Rias with the SAME rank?(high class devil)

I am not against make him High Class but I would not like see Both of them with the same rank as if Rias never did anything important in DXD.. She is even in the TOP 16 in Azazel Cup.. She is worthy to receive the Ultimate Class rank.

If Saji is promoted I hope that Rias and Sairaorg too or I will be dissapointed.

Certainly she did something in DxD, but for her achievements, characters like Saji merits more than her the promotion because he did more things important.

Friend, for me Sairaorg would have to be nominated to become a Maou like Issei and Vali, not only ultimate class promotion

Originally Posted by B214

Leadership isn't just about making strategies and leading team into winning fights you know. Do you think all of Sirzechs' servant follow him because they respect his strength or strategic skills? If Sirzechs were to act like Shalba or Rizevim, do you think his team would follow him? There's no point being a super genius strategist with unparalleled strength but having no one to follow you because they don't like or respect you. At the very least Rias' team trust her, loves her and is willing to follow and fight for her.

Of course i'm not saying she's a great leader with superb leadership skills.

I know, but if we have to value Rias for this capacity, she is not better than other Kings like Issei, Vali and Sairaorg.
I wanted to show that Rias’ leadership is not so amazing than that of other kings.

To change argument:

。King──Valú Lucifer
。Queen──Fenrir
。Tower──Gogmagog
。Tower── (Current) Zhu Bajie
。Knight──Arthur Pendragon
。Knight── (Current) Sha Wujing
。Bishop──Kuroka
。Bishop──Le Fay Pendragon
。Pawn── 『5』 Bikou
。Pawn── 『3』 Not registered
。Team Members 「Saiyūki | Journey to the West」
。King──Beatful Buddha Fighter (Shoudai Sun Wukong)
。Queen──Nezha
。Towerｘ２──Altar Cleaning God (Shoudai Zhu Bajie)
。Knight──Not registered
。Knight──Not registered
。Bishopｘ２──Golden Lohan (Shoudai Sha Wujing)
。Pawn─ ─ 『5』 Yu-Long
。Pawn── 『3』 Not registered

This is the list of the team members for the RG, how do you immagine the match? If raw power, Vali’s team is superior, but we don’t know the power of Sun wukong’s team, except that there are 4 god class.
We know that Sun wukong is like Cao Cao, a technique type with a weak Body, he personally said in vol17 that receive an attack from Vali BxB or Issei CxC would defeat her, and in power they are superior to him (ultimate class).

[Marvix]

Spoiler for RG:

DxD L Vali fights Nezha and Kuroka and Bikou fight Wukong then Arthur. Kuroka is retired so no doubt Wukong's doing.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Dragon Sin

I demand promotion for Ryuuteimaru, as the new chief God of Norse mythology.

It is said in legends that only hades in their state of Ainz Ooal Gown can challenge the great Ryutemaru-Sama

[Emperor of D.]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

The host was listening to the criticsÂ’ opinions.

“Under ordinary rules, Hyoudou Issei-shi [1] relies on sheer power to supress his opponents with light blasts, but under the special rules, his actions are actually unfavourable. It is evident that Hyoudou Issei-shi, who has attained various honours in actual combat does not actually have a very good understanding of the Rating Game as it is an entirely different thing.”

<<There have been similar matches in the Rating Games of the Underworld in the past; even when a lower ranked team with a large power gap between a higher ranked team are set against each other, lower ranked teams have been able to destroy an equal number of items to the other team, and then engage in a defensive battle until time runs out to successfully draw a tie. This subversion of expectations and the plethora of limitless possibilities is one of the charms of this game.>>

Certainly, games where you have to search items in a big field or try to do goal with a ball is the same thing?
In true fights, you can use the best tactic of ever but if your opponent is too strong, you will defeated, but in rating games this can change. If the Rating game against Sona and Rias would have been a true fight, sona would be destroyed easily even with the best strategy of ever.

Show me how issei would lose in the true fights without a guide, please because all the most important fights has been won by him with a his personal strategy or using the raw power.
Rivezim, Grendel, Cao Cao ecc have been defeated for riasÂ’ leadership, true?

Please, read again the volume 2 because you have not understood nothing. Riser never did take RiasÂ’ peerage seriously. And read what I have written because you are saying things not true.

Riser starts laughing after Buchou answers him as if he finds it amusing.
“Then this match will be a laugh. Only your [Queen], the “Priestess of Thunder” can fight on par with my adorable servants.”

Since the beginning, for him the rating was a joke, the fact that gived to Rias 10 ten days to train issei. And how is relevant the Phoenix tear? Like Rias had Asia, RiserÂ’s peerage has the Phoenix tear.
Do you forget that all those players eliminated was for the major part pawns of low level and Riser did not use a strategy?
Issei and Kiba would be destroyed by the others players if issei would have not unlocked transfer, a thing that Rias did not know. For riser was not important lose all the peerage because he could not be defeated.

And you missing my point about Rias who fights riser in a 1vs1 without any strategy, knowing that was impossible win and without try to weaker him. All of this has been thought by issei, a rookie.

are irrelevant the rules, Rias has not been able to contrast sonaÂ’s strategy, every movement of her peerage has been predicted by Sona.
The fault is of the king, this is way they have obtained a low evaluation in part.

What did Rias with Sairaorg is nothing of so amazing to show her ability like a leader, and have to predict that the mistero pawn was a lot of dangerous. And for her fault, they were to lose the rating, without do nothing to cover the difference of power.

You are right for vol22, but issei can wear in one second the armour and knowing how much is dangerous Balor Rias, it is stupid when he weared in one second it when Baraqiel appeared from far.

Vol25
<<START!>>

We started to run just as the commentator shouted out!

First, we split up into two groups. One group would run up the spiral staircase and the other would fly while passing over the floating islands. By not bunching up in one place, we would also avoid a single large attack against the entire team. As a [King], the game would end if I were to be defeated, and I began to run up the stairs. This was only a temporary plan. Whilst I did think about flying through the sky, I chose to take the stairs to begin with after the situation. The ones who took the stairs were Irina, Xenovia, Rossweisse-san, Ravel, Ouryuu, and myself, the group which comparatively consisted of those who had confidence in their stamina. I quickly transformed into my crimson armour.

He wearred initially the armour, when he had to climb the stairs and not fight, this is stupidly of the plot.

Are not even comparable the fights Vidar vs issei or Saji and Sona vs Xenovia with my point.
Vidar wanted to fight with issei because he was the only interesting opponent and wanted to fight with a heavenly dragon and to better the rapport among issei and rossweisse.

With Saji, IsseiÂ’s team had already won and was impossible lose, especially for issei with Saji in a fight, Xenovia could fight with Sona because the victory of the match was of her team.

With Rias, with the surprise attack, she had a big opportunity to win easily, especially because Ddraig needs 8 minutes to appear and make a big difference. But she gived to Ravel the possibility to reorganise them and run, while if she would have sent Crom with Kiba to fight issei or even her with Crom, they would win but she preferred the honor and the will to a secure victory.

You are right on everything you said but I think Rias didn't proceed after her surprise attack why because it would do little good. Issei and his team was now on guard. I never knew why they had to reorganize when they already had a plan before Rias got there. The only stupid part was Issei didn't transform at the start when he knew the enemy was close by. Because they waited, Issei had to spend most of the match just looking for Rias.

Crom fights alone and on his terms so he likely would've waited for Ddraig or fight Fafnir or Issei. And yes honor did play a part on Rias part but Issei did the same. He could've ignored Kiba's request to fight him and have Grayfia deal with him while he finishes Rias.

[AzazelDxD]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Friend, for me Sairaorg would have to be nominated to become a Maou like Issei and Vali, not only ultimate class promotion.

If he wants the MAOU POSITION I am with you but..

If this is not his desire and someone or something should force him to accept this(like Issei case ) I prefer him as Bael heir.. More reasons to want it:

Zekram also said that the Four Great Satans are just symbols and the real leader of the Underworld is the head of the House of Bael.

I am fine with Sairaorg as the Devils real leader. Even his brother Magdaran prefers Sairaorg as heir to focus in his own things.

Magdaran never truly desired to become the next head of the Bael Clan as he preferred to engage in botanical studies over studying politics to succeed his father, doing so to try and please his father and his mother in order to try and deepen their relationship but to no avail.

Sairaorg was the only one who ever paid any real interests in his hobbies in botany and treated and cared for him like real family

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by AzazelDxD

If he wants the MAOU POSITION I am with you but..

If this is not his desire and someone or something should force him to accept this(like Issei case ) I prefer him as Bael heir.. More reasons to want it:


I am fine with Sairaorg as the Devils real leader. Even his brother Magdaran prefers Sairaorg as heir to focus in his own things.

Sairarog want to become a maou, and he can’t be the Bael Leader

[AzazelDxD]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

Sairarog want to become a maou, and he can’t be the Bael Leader

OK. Is like I heard it before.. But after many volumes is IMPOSSIBLE remember everything.



I thought that it was only Zekram who wanted that

[Darksider555]

Originally Posted by AzazelDxD

OK. Is like I heard it before.. But after many volumes is IMPOSSIBLE remember everything.



I thought that it was only Zekram who wanted that

Maybe it is both? Sairaorg, who took the position of next head from his younger brother to prove himself to those who mocked and discarded him, is trying to become a Maou so that he has a powerful position where he can enact change but also allows his younger brother to become Head again.

Zekram supports this as the next head must have the power of destruction and while he initially didn't think much of Sairaorg when he tried becoming the next head, he is impressed by Sairaorg's strength and achievements, so it works out well for both sides.

[syzorst]

Vali fight against Nezha

Spoiler:

Despite Vali being in DxD L, he is having a hard time against Nezha because Nezha fights like Cao Cao. He's a technique type and countering Vali like crazy. Further he has incredible senses that allow him to dodge Vali's ferocious attacks similarly like how Cao Cao was dodging Sairaorg's attack using his senses. Difference is Nezha is a God so his senses and counter attacks are incredible compared to Cao Cao and he has God armor and weaponry that poses a problem for Vali.

I'll post the preview of this game latter here.

[Hakai]

So he's like Cao Cao but without the shit physical stats of a human

[godz]

If Nezha gives Vali problems and is a technical type, he must be able to give Issei more problems and even overcome him.

[Marvix]

Going by mythology, Nezha's weapons are a pair of wind and fire wheels (uses them to fly as well), fire-tipped spear, universe ring (uses like a boomerang) and a red armillary sash he uses to tie up people. Ishi could say make the spear be anti-dragon as well due to Nezha slaying a dragon king's son.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

If Nezha gives Vali problems and is a technical type, he must be able to give Issei more problems and even overcome him.

Iseei has showed great ability against the technique types and would be able to defeat him, will not easy but he will win.
Also because there is not a big difference between issei and vali.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by godz

If Nezha gives Vali problems and is a technical type, he must be able to give Issei more problems and even overcome him.

Actually it's probably the other way around. Issei could probably just crush him through raw power right through his techniques. I guess it depends on how fast Nezha is?

[godz]

Issei has always shown poor compatibility with technical types, and Nezha is someone who is better than Cao Cao.
as ddraig said, pure power doesn't matter if you dodge all your attacks (in this scenario we don't count ddraig, because with ddraig it's issei's sure victory)

Issei is not an invincible protagonist ... I think (?)

[XFire]

Originally Posted by godz

Issei has always shown poor compatibility with technical types, and Nezha is someone who is better than Cao Cao.
as ddraig said, pure power doesn't matter if you dodge all your attacks (in this scenario we don't count ddraig, because with ddraig it's issei's sure victory)

Issei is not an invincible protagonist ... I think (?)

Yeah, but that specifically is because Vali has super speed relative to basically everyone.

It's like how Cao Cao said there was nothing he could do against EJOD because the power difference was just too high

[godz]

"Vali was fighting Crom Cruach, and the battle between those two had caused immense destruction to the camp. It was the first time that I saw the Mauification of Vali, but ... the quality of its aura was unbelievable! A mere explosion of your demonic energy was enough to blow everything in its path! All the buildings around them were gone and their battlefield became a vast open plain! Vali's Mauification seems to be even stronger than my Dragon Deification!
[Although there are aspects where you would not be inferior to Vali, Vali seems to be stronger overall.]
said Ddraig."


Issei in AxA exceeds the form of vali dxd L in pure power, but in speed it is lower and the same ddraig says it in shin dxd 3,If Vali has problems it is obvious that Issei will have them or even worse.

"Hey, Ddraig. My current self, if I go along with Ryuuteimaru, have I overcome Vali?
『In simple power you have overcome it all at once. But, you've already been told that spending aura is too intense, right? That power is meaningless unless it reaches. After being deflected, the stamina runs out and checkmate when 『A x A』 ends, that would be the end 』
Ddraig said calmly.
...... In fact, right. My power was something incredible, but it is not limited that all those attacks reached the transcendental fast Vali. When the combination with Ryuuteimaru ends, it will end up getting beaten, right?
...... To be Vali's opponent it may just be a big moving tower, maybe.
...... Does it mean that there is room for improvement and training?
While Ddraig laughs, he says.
『But, if you destroy the entire planet, you win.』
I'm also going to die when the earth is gone, fuck!"shin dxd 3

[Hakai]

Ddraig giving Ise consolation with "at least you can pull a Frieza" LMAO