High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[DragonOsman]

As Brawlre said, Rias is Ultimate-class in terms of real power as shown in her fight against an Ultimate-class King in the tournament. She defeated that King by herself. Akeno was there, but she may have just gotten there after finishing her own fight. So yes, Rias is Ultimate-class in terms of real power. Ise's normal Balance Breaker, without a shitload of Boosts, isn't Ultimate-class. To be at Ultimate-class, has to be in the True Queen mode (which is actually Maou-class or slightly above that currently).

It's true that she needs to shine more than she does as the main heroine, and it's also true that Sona is better than her at tactics and that Ravel was the one who defeated Sona at tactics instead of Rias which makes her look bad since her rival was beaten at tactics by someone else. But Rias is not as weak as you think. You're underestimating her in that regard, @syzorst.

[Lucidrago]

Xenovia and Vasco Strada were going at it in a sword fight. Vasco Strada was already exhausted from fighting Arthur because let's face it, he's human and an old man. No matter how OP he is, he is still an old man who is human. And he had the Durandal replica compared to Xenovia who had the real Durandal and the real Excalibur. And plus none of them really fought against Vasco Strada except Arthur. It's like they were just launching a single attack at him just so Ishibumi could prove how OP Vasco Strada was. But you don't think Strada was tiring himself out taking those attacks and you saw what cutting Rias' Extinguish Star in half did to him. And Xenovia fought him after the Gremory group and Saji launched their attacks at him and Arthur fought him.
I wouldn't say that Xenovia beat Vasco Strada. Just that Vasco Strada got tired out fighting Xenovia after fighting Arthur and taking the Gremory group's attacks. And he's an old man. Powerful. But still an old man who's a human where age has caught up to him.

So is Xenovia stronger than every single devil due to being a natural-born holy sword wielder? Vasco Strada was exhausted.

Rias gathered servants that would make a Satan envious. That's her winning achievement. Daughter of a Fallen Angel leader.

You're saying she hasn't shown much. Her Extinguish Star basically reduced Grendel to half a head. She just overwhelmed an Ultimate-class devil. She's the king and she isn't going to show much and her main priority is leading her peerage and acting as the king. Or are you just saying she went against super OP guys that you act like they're the norm and didn't beat them. Rias is the main heroine yes. But she's the king first and foremost. So when she does come out and kick ass, it is limited. Do you want to see her take on the Longinus possessors? Do you want to see her soloing god-class opponents? What are you exactly expecting from Rias?

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

As Brawlre said, Rias is Ultimate-class in terms of real power as shown in her fight against an Ultimate-class King in the tournament. She defeated that King by herself. Akeno was there, but she may have just gotten there after finishing her own fight. So yes, Rias is Ultimate-class in terms of real power. Ise's normal Balance Breaker, without a shitload of Boosts, isn't Ultimate-class. To be at Ultimate-class, has to be in the True Queen mode (which is actually Maou-class or slightly above that currently).

It's true that she needs to shine more than she does as the main heroine, and it's also true that Sona is better than her at tactics and that Ravel was the one who defeated Sona at tactics instead of Rias which makes her look bad since her rival was beaten at tactics by someone else. But Rias is not as weak as you think. You're underestimating her in that regard, @syzorst.

I never said Rias was weak dude but that as the main Heroine she needs to shine more. In most of her battles she gets outshinned by either her servants or Rias be a support for Issei. When it comes to her rivalry with Sona she doesn't shin as much as Sona does despite Sona being a side character. Hell, even Saji has shined more.

In regarding Issei Scale Mail he is roughly at Ultimate class with Cardinal Crimson at Maou or slightly above it. Issei was on par with Riser and had to go Cardinal Crimson to beat him and this is after Riser started training and Riser was already stronger than Rias to begin with.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Xenovia and Vasco Strada were going at it in a sword fight. Vasco Strada was already exhausted from fighting Arthur because let's face it, he's human and an old man. No matter how OP he is, he is still an old man who is human. And he had the Durandal replica compared to Xenovia who had the real Durandal and the real Excalibur. And plus none of them really fought against Vasco Strada except Arthur. It's like they were just launching a single attack at him just so Ishibumi could prove how OP Vasco Strada was. But you don't think Strada was tiring himself out taking those attacks and you saw what cutting Rias' Extinguish Star in half did to him. And Xenovia fought him after the Gremory group and Saji launched their attacks at him and Arthur fought him.
I wouldn't say that Xenovia beat Vasco Strada. Just that Vasco Strada got tired out fighting Xenovia after fighting Arthur and taking the Gremory group's attacks. And he's an old man. Powerful. But still an old man who's a human where age has caught up to him.

So is Xenovia stronger than every single devil due to being a natural-born holy sword wielder? Vasco Strada was exhausted.

Rias gathered servants that would make a Satan envious. That's her winning achievement. Daughter of a Fallen Angel leader.

You're saying she hasn't shown much. Her Extinguish Star basically reduced Grendel to half a head. She just overwhelmed an Ultimate-class devil. She's the king and she isn't going to show much and her main priority is leading her peerage and acting as the king. Or are you just saying she went against super OP guys that you act like they're the norm and didn't beat them. Rias is the main heroine yes. But she's the king first and foremost. So when she does come out and kick ass, it is limited. Do you want to see her take on the Longinus possessors? Do you want to see her soloing god-class opponents? What are you exactly expecting from Rias?

Let's put it this way. Xenovia is strong not only being a natural wider which is extremely rare but she's has Durandal which is the strongest Holy sword as well as Excalibur. Given her talent and raw power she's roughly equal if not just slightly weaker than Kiba who's already surpassed Rias. Now you say Vasco was exhausted do to his old age which is true but that's only after his clash with Xenovia. He wasn't trying in his fight with Aurthor and mainly just block everyone's attack just once. Xenovia was able to overpower him.

Now everything you said regarding of what Rias has done is true but it isn't much. All she did was damage Grendel and she did beat an Ultimate Class Devil so I'll give her that but what else has she really done? Let's take a look at some of her major battles.

She couldn't do anything against Riser even with Asia's healing.

I don't need to say much about Kokabiel because he was stronger than her whole Peerage combined.

She was mainly a support role during the Chaos Bridgade invasion when Issei and Vali fought.

During her match with Sona's peerage the ones who shined most was Saji and Sona for her tactics.

During the match with Sairaorg we see that Rias couldn't do anything to Sairaorg's Lion Regulus.

I could name a few more but you get the point. I know she's has the position of King but still as the main Heroine she needs to shine more.

Let's not forget that Sona made better use of Rias's servants given that she a better tactician than Rias. Again a side character who is also her rival actually handling her own servants better.

Lastly, I think you are underestimating Roseweisse abilities in magic.

[Lucidrago]

RIAS. IS. THE. KING. She's going to mostly show off her servants than fighting herself. She's not one of the servants but the king.

EDIT: The strongest holy sword is Collbrande. Not Durandal.

She couldn't do anything against Riser. He was more experienced than Rias and stronger than her. That was expected. Riser could curbstomp everyone in the Gremory group in Volume 2.

So what was she supposed to do against Vali? A guy who had incredible talent and immense demonic powers most likely greater than hers and a Longinus? What did you expect Rias to do exactly? Fight Vali herself? Fight Katarea Leviathan?

The point was for Sona to shine. Showing how power isn't everything. And showing that if you look beneath the Gremory group's immense power, they are just full of easily exploited weaknesses. Remember that there are a million lessons in defeat.

Well Regulus is a Longinus itself. And before being sealed by God in a Sacred Gear was a god-class creature most likely.

Sona is more intelligent and has a better mind than Rias and is a better king when it comes to understanding her servants and their strengths and weaknesses and how to use them in the most effective way.

How do you exactly want Rias to shine? Having her defeat the big bosses like Issei does? How do you want her to shine exactly? She has gathered very strong servants. Well she did that before the series start. The only servant she gathered in DxD was Issei. Issei drew the rest to him which allowed Rias to reincarnate them(Asia, Xenovia, and Rossweisse). Rias' job is to lead her peerage. Because of her peerage being incredibly OP she can sit back and issue little commands and allow them to fight and demolish the enemy.

[Bennia Lover]

@syzorst You are only thinking she needs to shine more in battles, not in general and you're mixing up battles with general. Rias's character shines in general as a leader, a role model, and a support for all her peerage members like the extremely compassionate person she is. Hell in Ishibumi's own words from last October's DxD stage event: she is the King, the mother, and the big sister of her peerage all at once. Also Cardinal Crimson Issei is above maou class (original maous).

[Brawlre]

Also sona used them in a tactical way not better way she herself said that she understood why they never needed a deeply thought out plan it was because they were so op there was never a need for a strategy

Also ise didn't need CCQ for riaser he asked ise to use it on him

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

RIAS. IS. THE. KING. She's going to mostly show off her servants than fighting herself. She's not one of the servants but the king.

EDIT: The strongest holy sword is Collbrande. Not Durandal.

She couldn't do anything against Riser. He was more experienced than Rias and stronger than her. That was expected. Riser could curbstomp everyone in the Gremory group in Volume 2.

So what was she supposed to do against Vali? A guy who had incredible talent and immense demonic powers most likely greater than hers and a Longinus? What did you expect Rias to do exactly? Fight Vali herself? Fight Katarea Leviathan?

The point was for Sona to shine. Showing how power isn't everything. And showing that if you look beneath the Gremory group's immense power, they are just full of easily exploited weaknesses. Remember that there are a million lessons in defeat.

Well Regulus is a Longinus itself. And before being sealed by God in a Sacred Gear was a god-class creature most likely.

Sona is more intelligent and has a better mind than Rias and is a better king when it comes to understanding her servants and their strengths and weaknesses and how to use them in the most effective way.

How do you exactly want Rias to shine? Having her defeat the big bosses like Issei does? How do you want her to shine exactly? She has gathered very strong servants. Well she did that before the series start. The only servant she gathered in DxD was Issei. Issei drew the rest to him which allowed Rias to reincarnate them(Asia, Xenovia, and Rossweisse). Rias' job is to lead her peerage. Because of her peerage being incredibly OP she can sit back and issue little commands and allow them to fight and demolish the enemy.

I know Rias is a king but you are missing the point. Being a king doesn't mean you don't fight as well. There have been times where Rias was involved in 1 on 1 battles as well.

You're right Durandal Diesel is not the strongest but it's the second strongest.

You're missing the point dude. The reason I excluded Kokabiel was because he was a top class Fallen Angel but Riser was the same as Rias. He was a high class devil who was also a king. This was a battle between kings where Rias should've had her chance to shine but failed.

Which again I said she was mainly just a support role. Vali is only an opponent for Issei given their rivalry.

I know which is why Sona as a side character shined as well as Saji.

Regulus wasn't a God class other his power combined with Sairaorg who power was roughly already ultimate class would've destroyed Issei even in Cardinal Crimson and again this was a 1 on 1 battle that Rias was in before came to her rescue. Another wasted chance for her to shine.

And yet Ravel was able to beat Sona in tactics which is something even Rias couldn't do. That doesn't make Rias look good at all because Sona is suppose to be her rival. You have a side heroine outshinning the main Heroine by beating her rival in her strongest suit.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Bennia Lover

@syzorst You are only thinking she needs to shine more in battles, not in general and you're mixing up battles with general. Rias's character shines in general as a leader, a role model, and a support for all her peerage members like the extremely compassionate person she is. Hell in Ishibumi's own words from last October's DxD stage event: she is the King, the mother, and the big sister of her peerage all at once. Also Cardinal Crimson Issei is above maou class (original maous).

No dude I am talking about in general. Let's look at some of the issues her peerage had. Kiba was on the verge of going rouge and leave the Gremory group for revenge but Issei was the one who brought Kiba back even though that's suppose to be Rias job as king. Gasper is another example. Issei was the one who helped Gasper out of his shell and become more confident when that's also suppose to be Rias job as king. Akeno had issues because she didn't accept her fallen angel blood which was holding her back but Issei helped ber get through that. Also Koneko was having a similar problem but Issei helped her. The problem is these are issues that are suppose to be for Rias to handle because she's the leader. You can't be a king if you rely on your pawn to solve the problems that your other servants are having.

[Bennia Lover]

Yes because Issei just so happened to solve their problems. Doesn't mean Rias wasn't going to or wasn't at least trying before Issei came and she never relied on Issei to solve their problems. And no you were talking just about battles and now you have switched to the histories of her peerage.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by Bennia Lover

Yes because Issei just so happened to solve their problems. Doesn't mean Rias wasn't going to or wasn't at least trying before Issei came and she never relied on Issei to solve their problems. And no you were talking just about battles and now you have switched to the histories of her peerage.

Really? Well let's see. What did Rias do when Kiba left her peerage going rouge? She just had him followed. She knew about Kiba's issues long before Issei and yet Issei still was the one who brought Kiba back.

What did she do to help Gasper problem? She mainly just had him sealed in a room. Again, Issei was the one who help Gasper out of his shell to become more confident.

She didn't do anything to help Akeno and Koneko to accept themselves which did nothing but hold them back despite knowing about it long before Issei did. And as Azazel said to Akeno "if you accepted your blood then you would've defeated Riser's queen" Rias didn't help them face with their problems but Issei did which is suppose to be Rias job as king.

Asia had problems to but she's an exception because Issei and Asia were already close by the time Rias met Asia.

[B214]

Just to correct something, Rias wasn't the one who sealed Gasper, the upper echelon of the Devils did. They did it because they felt Rias wasn't ready to use Gasper.

According to the conversation, it seemed his ability was regarded as dangerous, and because Buchou wasn’t able to completely control him with her powers, he was ordered to be sealed by the higher-ups. What exactly was he? Was he that dangerous?

Well Rias herself was in a bind herself to help others too anyway. Don't forget, her servants back then consisted of a Nekomata who the Underworld wanted to execute, a former member of the Church and the daughter of a Fallen Angel Cadre. Those are all enemies of the Underworld at that time and are distrusted by the Higher-ups due to their status, take into consideration of her brothers situation, it's not that Rias didn't want to help, she couldn't afford to help since it may affect her clan and brother directly.

You need to understand, if she herself alone is in trouble then she most likely wouldn't mind, but what if the Underworld list her clan as a traitor for interacting and cooperating with the Church? Ise did cooperate with Xenovia and Irina who were with the Church at that time and there's no peace treaty. One wrong move, maybe even Rias herself would end up becoming a criminal.

[Brawlre]

What is your for basis for saying sairaorg was roughly ultimate class devil in his base form I swear I'll rod you if this is head canon again

[Lucidrago]

One B214 is that those things you mentioned about Rias and her servants really wouldn't matter. Devils don't like dragons but did that stop Tannin from becoming a reincarnated devil? Those are her servants and no one else had any say in what she does with them and how she handles them. It's her duty as the king to sort out their problems. A former member of the Church? I doubt that was hardly relevant and Kiba wouldn't be the first former member of the Church to become a devil I bet. How they were viewed by the Underworld was basically insignificant because they were her servants. How could it affect her brother's position by solving their problems exactly? They were her servants. Their personal issues had nothing to do with how the Underworld viewed them. Rias not solving her servants' problems would make her look bad as a king and reflect badly on her brother. Her job as a king was to bring out her servants' potential and use them to their fullest. And some were letting their personal histories and past get in the way of bringing out their full potential like Akeno.

Helping her servants and bringing out their power is Rias' main priority as a king. It's just that Rias wasn't capable enough to heal those deep-rooted problems of her servants. Kiba had watched his friends die one by one for some Church experiment that ended in all of them dying. Akeno had watched her mother die and she needed someone to blame it on and basically hated her father and her being a fallen angel and couldn't accept herself. Koneko was afraid of becoming like her older sister and letting her power get out of control and decided not to use it. And Gasper had been persecuted by his own family and had escaped only to be killed by vampire hunters. Not something to be healed so easily. Rias gave them a new purpose and without her they wouldn't be alive. But those problems still existed. Rias thought giving them a new purpose in life would cause them to put their pasts behind them and everything would gradually work out in time.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of enemies of the devils that were reincarnated into devils. Gaining powerful servants make you look good. As long as they don't become stray devils. It's Rias' job to nurture her servants and allow them to grow stronger regardless of what species or what faction they were with. Because at the end of the day it's Rias' peerage.

And with Gasper he was simply too powerful and out of control that Rias as she was back then wasn't strong enough or capable enough

[B214]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

One B214 is that those things you mentioned about Rias and her servants really wouldn't matter. Devils don't like dragons but did that stop Tannin from becoming a reincarnated devil? Those are her servants and no one else had any say in what she does with them and how she handles them. It's her duty as the king to sort out their problems. A former member of the Church? I doubt that was hardly relevant and Kiba wouldn't be the first former member of the Church to become a devil I bet. How they were viewed by the Underworld was basically insignificant because they were her servants. How could it affect her brother's position by solving their problems exactly? They were her servants. Their personal issues had nothing to do with how the Underworld viewed them. Rias not solving her servants' problems would make her look bad as a king and reflect badly on her brother. Her job as a king was to bring out her servants' potential and use them to their fullest. And some were letting their personal histories and past get in the way of bringing out their full potential like Akeno.

Helping her servants and bringing out their power is Rias' main priority as a king. It's just that Rias wasn't capable enough to heal those deep-rooted problems of her servants. Kiba had watched his friends die one by one for some Church experiment that ended in all of them dying. Akeno had watched her mother die and she needed someone to blame it on and basically hated her father and her being a fallen angel and couldn't accept herself. Koneko was afraid of becoming like her older sister and letting her power get out of control and decided not to use it. And Gasper had been persecuted by his own family and had escaped only to be killed by vampire hunters. Not something to be healed so easily. Rias gave them a new purpose and without her they wouldn't be alive. But those problems still existed. Rias thought giving them a new purpose in life would cause them to put their pasts behind them and everything would gradually work out in time.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of enemies of the devils that were reincarnated into devils. Gaining powerful servants make you look good. As long as they don't become stray devils. It's Rias' job to nurture her servants and allow them to grow stronger regardless of what species or what faction they were with. Because at the end of the day it's Rias' peerage.

And with Gasper he was simply too powerful and out of control that Rias as she was back then wasn't strong enough or capable enough

First off where was it stated that Devils dislike Dragons? Second, are Dragons direct enemy to the Devils like Angels and Fallen Angels? Third, hello did you forget about Cleria and Yaegaki? Ise, Koneko and Asia were even interacting with exorcists. If things go badly what do you think could happen? Fourth why do you think Michael sent two Exorcist instead of Angels to retrieve the Excalibur? That's because he doesn't want to escalate the issue to the point where another war would occur, Rias is the sister of the Lucifer then, how would the Heaven and Grigori take it?

[DragonOsman]

In the Maou Shoujo-centric side stories, Serafall often said that Dragons were originally the enemies of the Devils. She had Oppai Dragon act as Maou Shoujo's enemy in her shows. I'd show a quote if I could, but I'd have to find it first (but I know it's there somewhere).

Anyway, yeah, as the King, it was Rias's duty to help her servants sort out her problems and she did try to do so as Lucidrago said. Gasper was just too much for her to control, so the higher-ups ordered him to be locked away in sealed room.

[Lucidrago]

High School DxD, Volume 5, Life 3

“There is a certain race of dragons that can only live by eating that dragon apple. However, the ones that grew in the human world have become extinct because of sudden environmental changes. Now, that fruit only grows in the Underworld. But, dragons are hated in the Underworld. They’re detested by both devils and fallen angels. There’s no way they would give it away for nothing, right? —That’s why; I became a devil and so the territory that grows the fruit was all made my territory. When you exceed a high-class devil, you can receive a part of the Underworld from the Maou. I had my eyes on that place.”

And then you said Kiba was a former member of the Church. Former member. But he was a reincarnated devil so that was irrelevant. Yaegaki was a member of the church when he was in love with Cleria. The devils would have left it alone had she just been seducing him and using him. But forming a relationship with someone that's a current member of the Church is a big problem for a devil.

And B214. I really think what species you are doesn't matter in the long run when you're a reincarnated devil. Sona has a Grim Reaper as her knight that is the daughter of an Ultimate-class Grim Reaper. And Grim Reapers hate devils. And I would assume it's the same vice-versa. Doesn't stop a devil from making one their servant if the Grim Reaper is willing to be.

And plus the angels and fallen angels and devils had this status quo going on where basically they were still fighting but not starting any wars. There are way more exorcists than angels and are the main ones sent out on missions. It's not that he wanted to ensure that a war wouldn't break out. He could have just told the angels to just not start anything with Rias and asked her for permission to use her territory to conduct their business because they were entering devil territory. But since exorcists are the main ones they send they sent Xenovia and Irina.

Just saying you're equating Rias not being able to solve their personal issues with how the Underworld probably views them which is simply not true. Rias probably thought that their problems would gradually vanish if she gave them a new purpose in life. They were given a new purpose but their problems still existed deep down within them.

[Sparda4]

Rias' biggest and most powerful abillity is her sheer damn luck. A half fallen angel who's the daughter of one of the Grigori commanders is her best friend, A Young man who has two opposite sacred gears that have an irregular BB. A former Nekoshou(strongest nekomata species period) A former nun who has a VERY rare healing SG and Finally the Red Dragon Emperor's wielder. And this was just in vol 1-3. Need i say more ? Rias isn't a frontline fighter but a leader (Mid tier imo). I agree she needs more fights but i'd like her to develop more tactics let the others snowball out of control in power. Somebody needs to stay "normal"

[Lucidrago]

Well when you think of commanders on the battlefield do you see them as front-line fighters? Rias' job is commanding her peerage. She is very strong and very exceptionally talented for a devil. When it came to her strength and power, she was already perfect in the beginning of the series and just needed to just train normally and get more experience. The main thing about Rias is her extreme luck in gathering OP servants. Like Sparda said before. The reason why Ishibumi doesn't show Rias off in battle a whole lot is because she's the commander and has to lead her peerage.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah.

But @Sparda4, Rias can't stay all that "normal" for long. Azazel said she'd become an Ultimate-class Devil eventually even if she doesn't train. She's already one now because she's been training. Where do you think she'll end up after that "eventually" that Azazel was talking about happens now that she's been training? Way above Ultimate-class, I'd bet. Once she reaches peak power, she probably won't be "normal", as you say, anymore.