Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[LevelSeven]

That happened after: the moment Fiamma lost Imagine Breaker, his Third Arm became incorporeal again, meaning he was no longer LPSAD. IIRC, the Golden Arms appeared AFTER Touma's arm regrew back, ergo Fiamma no longer was in the position of LPSAD.

My point: we didn't actually see any feats of the Persona Superiore A Dio, as a such we can't correctly assess its strenght.

ohh, really?? seems like i forgot this part, i thought that HR fiamma can use every miracle from the bible which involved the right hand, and that lsdap fiamma can recreate every miracle inside the bible...

means that, that he is featless?? at least he was able to shoot a lightbeam which could destroy the world, isnt really impressive, accel used a similar powerful attack in his nerfed-mode....

Othinus could create a new phase with new rules to reality but she chose not to because her aim was to recreate her original world. At least I think so.

she couldnt even if she wanted to, she cant change the real reality....

Dniv is not saying Touma will fight God (btw, I always found Touma's claim to be dubious, how does he know he can?), he is saying Aleister wants to dethrone Him.

mmmhhh, i dont think that they will involve the real god, but im sure aleisters goal is to overcome or take the place of aiwass....

[Birdway]

When Fiamma shot that attack he was already running out of fuel due to the lack of ill will from the world.

[LevelSeven]

When Fiamma shot that attack he was already running out of fuel due to the lack of ill will from the world.

wasnt that the climax of his power??? he gained IB and completed his ability....

so i think that this attack was on his peak version, lets look: from vol.22

His third arm was no longer incomplete and it no longer continued to shake awkwardly.

The destruction he could carry out was different from the destruction that could be created by the 103,000 grimoires.

He held the power to save the world.

He held the power at the core of a legend.

He was known as The One Above God.

If it was necessary, he could easily smash the no longer needed adaptor with an overwhelming explosion of light that could turn an entire planet to dust.

mmmhhh, it is said that he can do it easily so, multiple planet buster, more similar with accels kinetic blast

*sniff* i want more feats *sniff*

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Birdway

When Fiamma shot that attack he was already running out of fuel due to the lack of ill will from the world.

You're confusing the attack that Fiamma made against the right-armless Touma with the golden Telesma mass that was shot out of the Star of Bethlehem which White Wing Accelerator intercepted. The former was made with 100% of Fiamma's LAPSAD power.

Originally Posted by allfictions

the moment Fiamma lost Imagine Breaker, his Third Arm became incorporeal again, meaning he was no longer LPSAD. IIRC, the Golden Arms appeared AFTER Touma's arm regrew back, ergo Fiamma no longer was in the position of LPSAD.

My point: we didn't actually see any feats of the Persona Superiore A Dio, as a such we can't correctly assess its strenght.

No, his arm stayed corporeal until the Holy Right grew so weak that IB could negate it:

Originally Posted by Volume 22

Kamijou Touma stepped forward with his fist still clenched.

He took one, two, three steps.

“It’s time for you to give it a rest with this illusion of yours.”

He suddenly charged forward.

He did not need any tricks. He just approached in a straight line from the front. In response, Fiamma of the Right used everything he had to swing around the third arm that was the symbol of his power. The tremendous power contained within it was too great for Imagine Breaker to negate. If Kamijou failed to turn aside its trajectory, he could pulverize the boy’s entire right arm. That may have been what Fiamma was thinking as he tried to eliminate the obstacle before his eyes using brute force.

However, Kamijou did not stop.

The instant the attacking third arm struck his right fist head on, that oddly shaped arm that was Fiamma’s greatest weapon was blown away.

Fresh blood and flesh flew through the air.

He had finally managed to have his third arm incarnated, but it now lost its physical shell and trembled painfully in midair.

“What!?”

Intense pain must have assaulted him like an avalanche because the skin of his face became greatly distorted as he cried out.

Kamijou’s power had not been increased.

Imagine Breaker was nothing more than Imagine Breaker.

Fiamma’s third arm that responded to malice had been weakened to the point that it could be destroyed by even Imagine Breaker. Small pieces of virtue had spread like ripples until they had filled the entire surface of the earth effectively breaking the core that supported Fiamma’s power.

The power that made Fiamma of the Right special no longer existed.

Touma regaining IB did not destroy the flesh that Fiamma was using to house the Holy Right. The lack of IB may have eventually made that flesh deteriorate until it could no longer function, but Fiamma was still LAPSAD until the final phases of his fihgt with Touma. LPSAD Fiamma has plenty of feats.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

she couldnt even if she wanted to, she cant change the real reality....

Not being able to change the Pure World does not mean not being able to change the laws of physics:

Originally Posted by Volume 1

All living creatures eventually die, an apple dropped from above would fall down, and 1+1=2. You would be able to take those kinds of natural and unchangeable rules of the world, destroy them, rewrite them, and create new ones. You could make 1+1=3, make an apple dropped from below fall up, and make all dead creatures eventually be revived.

Magicians called such beings Magic Gods.

Originally Posted by Volume NT 5

“A Magic God can distort the world as she desires. She can distort it as she wishes, but it cannot always be brought back to how it was before. Any childishly selfish wish such as making all the water running from the water pipes turn into orange juice is perfectly doable. But the more the world is distorted, the greater the danger of some kind of harmful side effects presenting themselves. And even if she tries to turn the world back to how it was, there is a danger of her no longer being able to tell exactly how the original world was after distorting it. These changes we are talking about are like changing the length of a meter or changing the weight of a gram.”

“So if that’s the fear, what is the hope?”

“A world like that would be a frightening thing, wouldn’t it? Even if you can alter everything to your selfish whims, you would want some kind of insurance, wouldn’t you? The simplest way to put it would be a backup or a reference point you could use to return the world to normal. I suppose you could say your right hand is like the International Prototype Kilogram. Even if the world is utterly distorted and you can no longer recall how long a meter used to be or how heavy a gram used to be, your right hand can negate all magic, so a reference point still exists. By measuring the length, weight, and temperature of your right hand, someone who has distorted the world too greatly can recall what the original world was like. It acts as a lifeline that allows the world to be reverted to normal, no matter how far it has been distorted in any direction.”

The power of a Magic God can rewrite physical constants and even basic arithmetic. However, warping the world to that extent would be too big a risk.

[Birdway]

^
Now you are confussing the pure world with the original world.

Pure world = Aleister's ideal world, science only.

Original world = the current world Imagine Breaker works as reference point.

[LevelSeven]

Pure world = Aleister's ideal world, science only.

Original world = the current world Imagine Breaker works as reference point.

science involves espers to some extent right?? than it wouldnt be "pure" anymore if their are beings which distort the reality like magicians....
i think the world he wants is the stage where he can ovewrite everything, even the point which is IB/IT/whatevers reference....that means that aleister could change IB/IT/whatever into a weapon which destroy everything which is "supernatural",

aleister would "say": everyone which doesnt obey me is "supernatural" and with the changed world he could use IB/IT/whatever as ultimate weapon....

[Birdway]

What do you think he is aiming for? <_<

[LevelSeven]

What do you think is aiming for? <_<

?? you mean aleister??

[Doom_Paperclip]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Now you are confusing the pure world with the original world.

Pure world = Aleister's ideal world, science only.

Original world = the current world Imagine Breaker works as reference point.

I believe you're the one who's confused. Here's the paragraph about the Pure World:

Originally Posted by Volume NT9

“The man who names himself the Silver Star seems to have been attempting to directly tamper with the ‘pure world’ beyond all the filters…that is, the world of science that is unaffected by religion. …Honestly, you are quite fortunate to see this. Not even the Golden cabal of Europe that dreamed in Tibet was able to reach this point.”

The Pure World is not Aleister's ideal world. It is the world as it truly is, untouched by Magic and artificial Espers. Science in this context does not refer to the powers developed by AC, but to the real life pursuit of knowledge, which can be viewed, in a certain sense, as standing in contrast to religion. Religion holds truth that is contingent on belief. The teachings of a religion are true for those who believe in it and false to those who don't. Science holds truth that is independent from belief. The laws of physics apply to everyone, whether they believe in them or not.

The Pure World is the world for which IB acts as a reference point. The Pure World is not the world that Touma grew up in, nor is it the original world that Othinus came from. By the time either of them was born, magic had already distorted the world.

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

science involves espers to some extent right?? than it wouldnt be "pure" anymore if their are beings which distort the reality like magicians....
i think the world he wants is the stage where he can ovewrite everything, even the point which is IB/IT/whatevers reference....that means that aleister could change IB/IT/whatever into a weapon which destroy everything which is "supernatural",

aleister would "say": everyone which doesnt obey me is "supernatural" and with the changed world he could use IB/IT/whatever as ultimate weapon....

You are thinking too small. Aleister wouldn't go through all the trouble he went through for a mere ultimate weapon to destroy his enemies or rewrite the world. Indeed, I doubt he has any designs for the world beyond those needed to fulfill his plan. If that were all he wanted, the power of a Majin would have been amply sufficient. As the greatest Magician of his time, that goal would probably have been achievable had he wanted it.

Aleister has grown disillusioned. Whatever made him lose his beliefs probably made him lose hope in anything. That is why, even if he had Othinus' power, it would do him no good, because none of the infinite worlds a Magic God can create could make him happy. His goal is probably to reach the same level as Aiwass so that he can ascend to a higher state of existence and leave everything behind himself. To do that he must first manipulate the Pure World in order to make his goal achievable and he doesn't care how much harm he may or may not bring to humanity or the world in the process.

[Birdway]

> …that is, the world of science that is unaffected by religion.


A world of science, dude, don't shoot a long post just for that, you aren't Mojo Jojo. It couldn't be even more clear.

And that is Aleister's goal or at least part of it.

[Doom_Paperclip]

Unfortunately, it can always be more clear. Because of the various laws of life and the Internet, there will always be a number of people who don't get your point. I repeat myself over and over to keep that number to a minimum. Case in point, I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you disagreeing with me? Agreeing with me? I'll assume the former and go from there.

The Pure World already exists, Aleister doesn't have to create it. It may be covered by a layer of filters, but it's there. Furthermore, the text reveals that he wants to tamper with the Pure World, meaning that he isn't satisfied with it as it is. The Pure World is not Aleister's ultimate goal but just another means to an end.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Doom_Paperclip

Unfortunately, it can always be more clear. Because of the various laws of life and the Internet, there will always be a number of people who don't get your point. I repeat myself over and over to keep that number to a minimum. Case in point, I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you disagreeing with me? Agreeing with me? I'll assume the former and go from there.

The Pure World already exists, Aleister doesn't have to create it. It may be covered by a layer of filters, but it's there. Furthermore, the text reveals that he wants to tamper with the Pure World, meaning that he isn't satisfied with it as it is. The Pure World is not Aleister's ultimate goal but just another means to an end.

I think you're both in agreement. It's just that one of you is saying the Pure World is Aleister's end goal (to do whatever he wants with it). And the other one is saying that the Pure World is a means to an end, since he merely wants to tamper with the Pure World to get something else, not to end up with the Pure World...

It still sounds like you two are saying the same thing... except the amount of detail involved.

[Miraluka]

Haha lol both got owned.

[LevelSeven]

only to have something to discuss:

which magic specialisation should the level 5's or the other espers have? (Even if they blow themselfes up, it is to close the weakpoints of their abilitys)

I think:
Accelerator: heal magic,finding people, ambrosia
Kakine (human body): defense magic, invisibility
Mikoto: follow magic (something like: the attack will never be dodged or outrunned)
Mugino: follow magic too, blank paper spell (to increase her speed), defense magic
Misaki: powerful attack spells (they need time but they are really destructive), defense magic
Gunha: ollerus inexplicable powers (makes him more confusing)

Awaki: finding magic, curse magic
Takitsubo: spell intercept, fenrirs crack magic
Saiai: rune magic type: fire spells
Umidori: defense magic, runes type: wind
Kuroko: finding magic, communication spells

I think with this spells they would have made up for their weaknesses or have i something not included.....

[Birdway]

If would be a nice blood party of dead corpses.

[LevelSeven]

^ only theoretically, i think that with a good enough magic spell the weakpoints of them would be smaller until it not even exist anymore.....

accel with ambrosia would be immortal and the #1 esper of the world who can curpstomp 99.9999% of the world (their are maybe 10-15 beings over him), and with a immortal body he would erase his weak body since it heals right after being damaged, his weakness against suffocating (hence he only needs to attack and if he not succeeds he attacks again and again)
i think it would boost him to the #1 of the world (considering the fact that aleister captured ladylee)

Kakine could use magic without killing himself (at least in his human body), the reason is that dark matter is a part of him, he would do the same thing umidori did with her cyborg arm....

[Birdway]

Inmortal or not, pain is pain, you can still be inmortal in various pieces.

[LevelSeven]

^ well i dont think it is easy to sever him into pieces, at least if this someone isnt aiwass....

[Birdway]

Just give him a glance to a rune/grimoire and take a seat looking at him writhing in pain and madness.

[LevelSeven]

oh this is a good idea XD

i didnt think of it haha at least it would be temporary, if he can master it he wouldnt have pain anymore (coms from my theory about "how grimoires are mindr*ping beings)...

mmmhhhh do you think kakine in dark matter form would be affected by the grimoires???
he is practically immortal and has this second personality stuff...