[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

I know the documentaries. And you fail to get the issue: The British were too close to Bismarck, so the angle the shells hit Bismarck's armour was too flat. Bismarck's armour was designed to withstand exactly those hits. Had they kept a larger distance, the angle would've been much steeper and Bismarck's armour wouldn't have hold up nearly as well against high angled hits. Moreover they could've then also taken advantage of Bismarck's unfavourable deck armour protection. For this purpose I advise you to read about ballistics simulations based on the protection scheme of the armour. In the end it's all about physics:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/okun_biz.htm

Bismarck's own guns could've penetrated her belt armour at a distance of 29k yards. Whereas the distance needed for Yamato would've been 17.7k and for Iowa around 16.4k.

Too long for today, tomorrow.
The same side also shows statistcs that Iowa's and Bismarcks guns could have both penetrated Yamato's deck armor. Bismarcks penetration being slightly below

And I pointed to the documentary because it was generally interesting, due to having interior shots as well as the precise damage done by all weapons inspected from really close range.
in the end a total of over 2000 (2800 I think?) Shots were fired with, according to Wikipedia ~400 hitting, with a penetration of mere 4 shells at the armor belt.

In other worlds less than 1 percent of all fired shots during that battle actually penetrated her hull.
Up until here its still fine, but the english battleships also fired from afar. Even if you take flat 2000 shells fired in total thats a hit rate of less than 1 % on a ship that could only go in circles.
So unless the Bismarck was still pretty good at escaping those shotsm a lot of the hits that were close enough(Edit: as in impacted close enough) to damage her still didn't manage to do so.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Bismarck's underwater belt armour was insufficient. The Germans (and to a lesser degree the British) underestimated the dangers of diving shells. Not only did the armour not extend far enough below water, the Germans also didn't put in a space bulkhead to protect the liquid-faced holding bulkhead. Prince of Wales' hit below the waterline that damaged the fuel tanks is a direct result of this neglection.

Which I never doubted. The point that she took several Hundred shells is still a standing fact though.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

We don't assume an engagement in the 1950s. We go by the features the ships had when they were operative at around the same time. Yamato was commissioned in December 1941. They were contemporaries and as such can be compared. Besides, you can't change the core characteristics of a ship, no matter how much you refit. Yamato would've been always superior to Bismarck.

Superior is not unsinkable, as both ships have proven. I wouldn't want to be on any of the 3 ships if they pointed main batteries at each other. Also the Yamato had refits before Okinawa.

And 1950 or so engagements are exactly what you have to assume in the case of Yamato and Bismarck, as it wouldn't have happened earlier than that.
Examples for things you can change on a ship are for example the radar, and its guns. You can do a lot more things if you get he back into dry dock, the question is just whether cost/expenditure would still make you want to do that instead of building a new one.

And here back to Kancolle - the expenditure might have even been taken.

Again in the end both ships needed considerable effort on the allied side to be taken down.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

I don't know what you've heard. But Prinz Eugen got a new stern because her original one was damaged beyond repair after getting torpedoed by the HMS Trident. Her old stern got completely cut away and not merely strengthened.

German Ships probably had stern instabilities, which is why they got refits in that regard after Prinz Eugen was damaged.

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Bismarck was hit by only about three torpedoes during her final battle. Yamato took eleven confirmed and another two suspected. Then you also have to consider the torpedoes themselves. The British 21 inch MkVII torpedo carried 336kg of TNT. The American 22.5 inch Mk13 had 270kg of Torpex, which is 50% more powerful than TNT.

The Yamato class was known for being able to take a lot of torpedoes, I think Musashi holds the record with about 20.

We an't say how many Iowa or Bismarck would have been able to take.

Yamato is generally a class of its own, due to her cannons as well as her tonnage violated the washington treaty (the tonnage part goees for the Bismarck too though)

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

So, Iowa could've spotted Bismarck from a far greater distance. She could've also launched salvos more accurately regardless of environmental conditions. So Iowa could've dictated the battle and simply maintained a distance where Bismarck couldn't damage her, but she could damage Bismarck. And Bismarck would've had no way of closing the distance since Iowa was three knots faster. No, unless Iowa suffers a catastrophic failure to her electronics equipment Bismarck would've had no chance in hell.

Precision aside, that still doesn't warrant 'no chance' the first thing being that both ships had recon planes, so its not like they wouldn't have known the other one was there.
And that is a reason a pointed to Cameron's documentation - Bismarcks planes were unable to launch.
EditDuring their engagement with the british forces of course)

And yes Iowa was/is (depending on how much they butchered her when turning her into a museum), a formidable battleship, which is why I didn't wonder that they used an Iowa Class ship for Battleship

In the end there are many factors deciding a naval battle, so I stick to my comment that I wouldn't want to be on either of those 3 if they had ever clashed.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Iowa verses anything is a different matter.
. And the extremely thick deck armor cannot be penetrated at all by a 15 inch shell (save for that 10 meter wide region around 34,300 meters were it might be able to take out a boiler room by putting a shell down the armored stack). Even with Yamato's inferior armor plating (the Japanese were still using World War One British designed armor plate making methods for extremely thick armor plating, which was inferior to what the British and Americans were using.)

http://www.combinedfleet.com/f_guns.htm
Maybe I'm reading those numbers wrong(Considering that I'm bad at math very possible) - But her deck armor would have gotten penetrated at Bismacks maximum Range which was roughly 40'000 km